[gigabiter]

Hi,

This is my first post so appologies if it is in the wrong area.

I have been looking around for a while trying to get hold of a cnc router capable of cutting materials a minimum of A4 size and would be such materials as 500 micron to 2 mm plastics. I only have a small budget and looking to get one as cheap as possible.

I have seen some DIY frames for around £295 which require 3 steppers, drivers, router, cuplers and power supply for completion but knowing my luck I will only end up blowing the thing up (or myself).

I am therefore wondering if anyone in the UK has one for sale or if someone could build one for me on a budget and if so how much.

I would of really like to have had a go myself hence the reason I registered with this website but this sort of project really looks like too much of a job for me.

Many thanks for taking the time to read this post.

Lee

[Oldmanandhistoy]

Hi and welcome to the Zone.

You say tight budget, now tight is tight?

By the way you would get all the help you could ever want from here if you decided to build yourself.

[gigabiter]

Hi,

Well so far I have only £640 which i know is lo at the moment which is why I was looking at the frame kit available for £295 plus £17 p&p.

The information of the diy machine is as follows, I have coloured the text green to seperate my comments from that of the guy selling the frame:

Specs:
Cutting area 610mm x 350mm.
Z travel 110mm
Max clearance for material 50mm
Lead screws are trapezoidal 10mm diameter x 4mm pitch, 2 start (more efficient than standard screws) on the X and Y axis and 10mm diameter x 2mm pitch single start on the Z axis.
Uses Delrin nuts which can be adjusted for zero backlash.
Limit and Home switches provided.
Main component part are made from high quality multi ply and are ready to paint.
Uses bearings on all axes.
Recommended stepper motors of 100 oz in to 250 oz in (this will depend on what you intend to cut).
Will connects to your computers printer port.
The bed could be easily converted to a vacuum clamp bed.



What you will need to complete the frame.

No 6 x 12mm counter sunk screws x 24 of
No 6 x 16mm counter sunk screws x 16 of
No 6 x 19mm counter sunk screws x 14 of
No 8 x 50mm counter sunk screws x 12 of
No 8 x 16mm counter sunk screws x 46 of
8 of machine screws 5mm x 0.8 x length to suit packers for mounting X and Y
stepper motors.


Other parts you will need for a competed machine ready to run.

Three couplers for connection of stepper motors to screw shaft.
Three stepper motors (some good bargains to be had on ebay).
Cable to wire stepper motors to drives, wire limit and home switches and connect drivers to your PC.
Drivers for stepper motors (again some good bargains to be had on ebay).
A power supply.

An enclosure for the electronics.
A switch and fuse holder.
Software to run your cnc router.

Router/multitool


So I was confused as to what stepper motors are needed, what power supply, how I go about linking it all together.

Thus the reason I was wondering if anyone on this board in the UK has made a cheapish one ready to use that they are willing to part with or if I was to buy this frame, how much do you reccon roughly it would cost me in parts to complete this machine. The machine is going to be used to cut plastics from 500 micron to 2mm in thickness and maybe used to do a bit of light engraving on thin steels (maybe)

I am not too good with electronics which is the reason I would rather buy someones working project or if someone could build one for me for within my budget (which I know is quite low) that would be great also.

Many thanks for helping a noob.


Lee

[Oldmanandhistoy]

Hi,

Enter numbers into ebay search

Stepper motors 130033858044

Driver and software 250042040203

Search out a linear power supply 5A 24v aprox

Will add more as I come across them.

If you have more questions please ask.

[gigabiter]

Hi,

Thank you for the information, I really appreciate it.

I have taken the nerve racking jump and bought the DIY frame kit so I will just need to get a hold of the finishing components to complete it.

I looked at the items you posted, many thanks. Looks like I will be getting them.

Just one question with regards to the linear power supply. I always thought they were powered from modified pc power supplies lol so sorry for my ignorance. I have been searching the net for these supplies and keep stumbling accross open framed linear power supplies, are these the power supplies you are talking about or am I looking in the wrong areas as some of them are a bit steep in price.

Many thanks.

Lee

[Oldmanandhistoy]

Hi,

Not a lot of time to give much more info yet; just one thing please don’t buy anything yet. Give all the information you can were the cnc kit is concerned and also your requirements as in what you will be cutting.

[gigabiter]

Ahh, I have already purchased the frame kit but none of the components yet.

The specs of the frame are in one of the previous posts (in green text).

The machine should look like below when complete (i hope):



The kit I purchased contains the following (copied from the sellers email):

All parts needed that need to be especially cut or drilled (plywood parts ready for your chosen paint finish)

Trapezoidal shaft for 3 axes, machined and ready for assembly.

Delrin nuts which will allow adjustment for anti backlash.

Switches for limit and home positioning.

Z axis fully assembled (because of its complex nature).

All bearings needed.

Build instructions.

I intend to use it to cut polycarbonate between 500 micron in size to 2mm and sheet sizes of A4.

The 500 micron sheet may be stacked in piles of 10 or more to cut 10 sheets at once. I have used a cnc router before and realise that cutting multiple sheets does require a perspex jig placed on top of the substrates and possibly bolted down to stop movement. I also may require to use it / modify it to use for some light engraving on stainless steel or plastics.

[Oldmanandhistoy]

I am sure if you were in the US many here would suggest the hobbycnc kit or the like.

I am in the UK and have sourced a lot of parts. If you give me a little time I will put a list together (UK sources) and post them here. Obviously if others would like to chime in all the better as we all could do with more UK sources for these types of machines and god know there aren’t many here.

[Oldmanandhistoy]

Sorry one other question; is this for hobby use or more commercial?

[gigabiter]

I am hoping to use it for small business use. There will be no heavy usage of the machine to be honest, it may be switched on 1 day for about half hour then off for the rest of the day.

The reason I had a budget for this machine is I have never had a business loan or any other sort of loan, I try to do everything without going down that road.

I have been trying to run my business for about a year and have been hand cutting 500 micron polycarbonate but the finish result never looks professional enough to take things further and have only been selling my products through that well known auction site.

I have the oppertunity to put some of my items in stores so I thought I would try the cnc method. The money I use is what I get back out of my products (after the cost of rent and materials and not much of a wage) Also, I would like to progress further by upgrading the plastics I use to 1mm or 2mm and there is no way I can cut them without mechanical assistance. So fingers crossed, if all works well, I can progress things much further.

I really do appreciate your help and you are correct about suppliers in the uk for these sort of things. They are all over the US when you do a search but nothing much over here.

[MrBean]

Hi I recently bought one of the drivers from "Motion control" on ebay. I can highly recommend their drivers. I got one to replace my Z axis driver which exploded in flames. (flame2)

The motors mentioned earlier in this thread should be okay, and the price is good.
For a power supply I would build you own, it's really not that hard, and you can build to what you need rather than make do with something that's not quite right.
Something like this one from RS ought to do:
Toroidal transformer,225VA 2x18V o/p. RS Stock no. 223-8162

Although double check the voltage output you require. Even though the above transformer says 2*18V outputs, giving either 18V or 36V, once you've rectified the AC and added a capacitor the voltage will be higher than that. So you must choose carefully.

I built the power supply for my machine. See picture below.
I hope you get sorted out with all the bits you need.
Having built a machine, drivers, interface and power supply from scratch, I may be able to help out with some of your questions.
Now I've found this thread I'll be watching with interest.. :-)

Best regards.
Terry...

[Oldmanandhistoy]

I use drivers from Motion control products on all 3 axis. I had one develop a fault and returned it for a new one took 3 weeks and only came back after I emailed for an update. Having said that I would recommend their drives. The others on ebay and the one I suggested would work for a hobby machine but these will be more reliable IMHO and would have been on my list of recommended parts.

One other thing for now the picture shows more than just the PSU so don’t get panicked it is all quite simple once you understand how it all works.

[Oldmanandhistoy]

Hi again,

Starting with power to push this machine around; the stepper motors. I’ve had a look and the stepper motors I suggested would probable do the job you are describing, but (isn’t there always a but lol) I would go for more power so these 130033858137 (Ebay) would be the steppers I would buy. Why because you may find and probably will that you will want to cut more than 2mm plastic. For only a couple of quid more you will have all the power you need for a small machine.

Cable from the steppers; 4 core wire would be required ideally shielded but having said that I have used 4 core alarm cable from B&Q on my machine for over a year now with no problems. If you want more information about shielded cable and why other use it do a search on the zone you will get all the information you need. Be sure to get what will handle your current either 2.5A or 5A (at least) depending on the drives you decided to use.

Drives as already stated Motion Control Product limited http://www.motioncontrolproducts.com/ sell some nice drives which would be more reliable IMHO than the driver boards sold on Ebay. Not that I am saying these cheaper boards will not do the job you may find that the are only recommended for hobby uses (I have seen this stated by some sellers). So these http://www.motioncontrolproducts.com/msd325.html or these http://www.motioncontrolproducts.com/MSD542.html I would go for these second choice but would like to here what others think. Does anyone else think that 4.2A peak current is over kill? As you may be able to tell by now I like to have the power just in case and power also equals higher speed (I also like speed lol).

Next you will need a break out board. The break out board is used to connect your drives, limit switches, home switches and others (relays for spindle control on/off and the like. I would not worry too much about them for the time being as they are not essential) to your PC. I have to buy a decent break out board from the US as finding one here is very difficult basic ones can be bought in the UK but I am yet to find anything better in the UK. If any one has a link I would appreciate it.

Power supply as you have already mentioned people do use PC psu’s to power their drives (for more on this go to the electronics forum, top of the page you can’t miss it). I personally have built my own as many others have and lots of info on the zone about them so won’t go into it here. Maybe some one could post a link here to some suitable threads?

Software, if you are restricted by price then I would highly recommend Turbocnc from http://www.dakeng.com/ it is free to download and is simple imo to use. This will use Gcode to tell the computer to send signals to the drives which in turn control the stepper motor that move your spindle in a controlled way to cut your parts.

But were do I get that Gcode thingy from I hear you saying. This can be written by hand in some thing like note pad but lets not go there lol. So more software; I use and would highly recommend Sheetcam from http://www.sheetcam.com/. Idea imo for 2 ½ d work and again very easy to use. This type of software is know as CAM and there is lots out there to choice from. Lots of advice and options on the Zone.
Next you will need CAD software (to many to choose from but I use AutoCad, you may already have CAD software if not shop around some free stuff out there). This, if you don’t already don’t know is where you draw the parts you want to cut.

Some people may say I have described the software options back to front but I am working from the machine back.

All this sounds daunting for a beginner but don’t worry it will all make sense in time. Just work on one thing at a time you will get there.

I may have missed a couple of things out but think you have enough to be going on with. If you need more information do a search or ask here.

These are my recommendations other may like to step in and give you others and they may be better than mine. So don’t rush in as you could as I am sure others including myself, buy the wrong thing and have it sitting in a box some were in their work shop.

Best of luck,

John

[big_tel]

Hi
I have seen a small cnc router on ebay today, its item number 220040383447
its at £720 at the moment, i know thats more than you have, but i thought i would point it out
i know its not a diy one, sorry

[gigabiter]

Hi
I have seen a small cnc router on ebay today, its item number 220040383447
its at £720 at the moment, i know thats more than you have, but i thought i would point it out
i know its not a diy one, sorry

Hi, yep I have seen that one. Can't see that sort of machine with that spec and a pc with tft monitor included staying at that price, I would be guessing that will finish towards and possibly over £1,500. But thanks for looking.

I bought a DIY frame kit and just gonna buy the finishing pieces and complete (with the help of these guys on this forum).

oldmanandhistoy, thank you for your recent post. I have just printed it out and currently looking at the items and going to start making some purchases. I am also going to look at the electronics forum with regards to a power supply.

I will keep you all posted with my progress and will also probably be posting my questions hear if I am unable to find answers from searching the board.

Once again, I thank you for your assistance.

Lee

[Oldmanandhistoy]

Your welcome gigabiter .

One more suggestion; why not post your shopping list here for others to look at and give advice or let you know of better/cheaper sources?

John

[big_tel]

your welcome, good luck in your build, i myself may have a go at building one from scratch, but i may be able to cheat a bit and get help from a guy who used to install and service routers for a large uk company

[MrBean]

So these http://www.motioncontrolproducts.com/msd325.html or these http://www.motioncontrolproducts.com/MSD542.html I would go for these second choice but would like to here what others think. Does anyone else think that 4.2A peak current is over kill?

John

Hey John. Your earlier post had some sound advice.

I bought the MSD556 Microstepping Drivers (5.6A Peak).
Now this is over kill for my machine, but I'm in the middle of building my second machine and have a third planned and most of the parts ready to go.
I would rather have a drive that is more than man enough for the job, rather than wish I had one that was. So I fall squarely in your camp. (Take all the power you can get.) Besides they are not that much more expensive than the cheaper drives.
Having said that though, the 2.5A drivers would be plenty for a machine such as that described in this thread.

While I'm on the subject, I noticed that my motors run faster and smoother at a lower than rated "AMP" setting. Of course you loose some torque, but I had plenty of that anyway. So I run my Z axis at lower than rated AMPs, trading excess torque for more speed.

Regards Terry.

[Oldmanandhistoy]

Hi Terry,

I have 4 of the MSD556 drives myself 3 on a small machine and would agree with your comment on the 2.5A drives being enough for the machine in question.

The reason I have the drives is that I am in the planning stage also of building a larger machine 95% complete and will be using them on that machine (2 drives on the X axis). Having said that I would still probably go with the 4.6A drives as already stated why not have the extra power for a small increase in price. One thing for certain you will never be short of power and even though you do not think you will build bigger, you just might. You will have a machine to cut part accurately and there are plane on the zone for free for larger machines.

As far as gigerbites machine is concerned; if overall cost is an issue go with the 2.5A drives they will work well with the jobs you have described. This will have a domino effect as far as other components are concerned eg PSU.

If you do decide to buy drives and stepper motors from Motion Control check the price direct from their website I believe they will work out cheaper (post and packaging).

John

[greybeard]

Hi Gigabiter.
Looks like you have started a UK post - not a bad thing imho.
I'll be following and possibly contributing to this post as I'm going down a parallel path. I started by buying a software/stepper motor/controller package and have to put the frame together. Even so, I've found the shortage of UK info an occasional downer, till someone on the forum kicks in with some ingenuity.

Good luck.
John