[jnutt]

Hi All,

I'm looking to build a cnc router for woodworking, although it would be nice to know the extra cost to be able to work with light gauge steel sheet material. Can anyone give me an idea of some build cost?

Also can anyone recommend some good (preferably free) plans. I'm looking to keep the cost low and trying to figure out what size and precision I can expect at a certain cost. I assume it is much cheaper to build they purchase a kit.
I have woodworking experience and tools, and want to keep cost down so I've figured I would have to build out of wood mostly. Is this an accurate thought?

Any other tips would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

[ger21]

What size machine?

[jnutt]

It depends on cost, but I would like it be approximately 2'x3'. Actually, I like to b 4'x8', but I've read enough to know the cost go up fast, so I'd like it to 2'x3' or so. Depending on cost I could go even smaller for now.

[ger21]

In some ways, cost has more to do with the quality of components used than the size of the machine.
If you want a good machine, then you need to spend money on quality components in key areas.

As far as plans for a wood machine, there are very few out there. And they are all entry level machines, that aren't terribly rigid, and all have shortcomings. Most people that build them tend to move on to a better machine after they finish and use them for a bit.

How much are you looking to spend?


Having said that, the only plans I can really recommend would be the Joe's 2006. There are a lot of build threads here if you look around. The plans may be a little hard to track down, but they're out there. They may be here in the forum if you can find them.


And while I'm sure someone must have tried cutting sheet metal, I would not even consider it. Especially on a low cost wood machine.

[jnutt]

Thanks Gerry. I've been searching and I've seen Joe's 2006 and another one by jrgo. I think jrgo has threaded rods for linear drive. A couple people commented that there has been upgrades to Joe's, so I was looking for some more recent builds. I'll keep looking at those forums. Your point about cost/quality makes perfect sense.
I was hoping to build something for $1000. I wondering if anyone can comment on a build they did and the cos for there materials used. I've planned on building on small level entry one first and then moving up just as you mentioned.

Thanks for the help Gerry!

[ger21]

If you buy quality electonics, they can easily eat up half your budget.
Multistart scme screws will give you very good performance, but can cost $200-$300.

Building a machine for $1000 can be tough. You have to cut some corners.

I would say $1200-$1500 may be a more reasonable number.

[louieatienza]

I don't think it's a good idea to cut any steel with a wood frame router. Also the spindle speed requirements for steel and wood are polar opposites.

[CYoung]

My first machine with from a book I bought, now called BuildYourCNC.com. I had a great deal of fun and learning going through the process of building, debugging, and repairing this machine for about 3 years. Told me about 6 months to build it, then I used it for about 2.5 yrs making stuff. I learned allot about cnc through this process that I dont think I would have learned if I would have bought a kit, so I have no regrets about starting with this machine. However, I learned enough to know what I REALLY enjoyed CNC wood working and recently upgraded to a CRP4848, which I love. With that said, I still have all the mechanical parts from the original machine stored in a box in my garage and was just starting to think about selling all of it (just to clean out the garage). I have (4) stepper motors, (3) motor drives, power supply, (2-3) breakout boards, single-start and multi-start acme threads (x, y, and z axis), (3-4) anti-backlash nuts, a ton of different bearings, etc etc. Pretty much everything except the wood that I used to build the machine. Let me know if you are interested and I will inventory these parts. I evenually will post them on either ebay or this site for sale just to I can clear out some of the space in my garage. I currently have a 4x4 CRP PRO machine and a 50W epilog laser taking up allot of space in the garage!

Also, I agree with the other posts, you really can not expect to cut metal (or AL) with a wood based machine, just not rigid enough. Cutting metal is a whole different ballgame.

[Devastator]

I occasionally machine steel on my Solsylva which is mostly wood based. I wouldn't say it does it very well. Aluminum is no big deal as long as my DOC is within reason. It took awhile to figure out the limitations and I broke a lot of bits the first few weeks. I wouldn't expect a stock Solsylva to come close though. Lots of mods to mine.

[Chaio]

I am also interested in DIY CNC works, eager to assemble an engraving machine by myself, I look for serious CNC parts for my machine on ebay store, find some surprise, and you could have a look.

[wizard]

Hi All,

I'm looking to build a cnc router for woodworking, although it would be nice to know the extra cost to be able to work with light gauge steel sheet material. Can anyone give me an idea of some build cost?

Someone already mentioned this but the requirements for steel and wood machining are dramatically different. It is doubtful with most wood working spindle solutions that you would be able to get the spindle speed low enough to machine steel properly (on a low end machine). You might be able to do some engraving type work with burrs and very small cutters but I have a hard time imagining good results.

Also can anyone recommend some good (preferably free) plans. I'm looking to keep the cost low and trying to figure out what size and precision I can expect at a certain cost.

I have no plans to recommend but it is interesting that you mention precision. You need to really define what you expect with respect to precision because in the $1000 range it will be very hard to get precision.

I assume it is much cheaper to build they purchase a kit.

Most of the time I would say yes but that assumes that you have access do a decent spread of shop equipment.If you don't have the shop equipment to handle your chosen materials and don't want it invest in those pieces of equipment then a kit would be cheaper.

I have woodworking experience and tools, and want to keep cost down so I've figured I would have to build out of wood mostly. Is this an accurate thought?

Perfectly good machines for machining wood are built out of wood all the time. Considering the costs I've seen lately on quality plywood at the lumber store I'm not sure it is always the best choice material wise. I'm a big proponent of buying a steel box beam for the gantry, this can be economical especially if you find a decent sized drop at you local steel supplier. However if you are not equipped to work with steel then there are hidden costs.

Any other tips would be greatly appreciated!

1. Nail down what you want machine size, making sure you have plenty of room for it.
2. Inventory what you have materials wise, obviously anything you don't have to buy lowers the cost of your machine.
3. Get a grip on what your expectations are. I'd seriously lower your expectation with respect to machining steel on a $1000 router.
4. If Steel machining is really something you want to accomplish you would likely have to build the entire machine out of steel and maintain separate spindles for steel work and wood work. If the steel parts are large I'd give up on trying to support doing steel well at all. On another note machining sheet metal with a rotating tool might not be the best approach to sheet metal work anyways.
5. Unless you have a lot of "stuff" laying around in your shop to put towards this project, $1000 is very tight to build a decent machine with.

Thanks!

[jnutt]

Thanks Wizard, I've doing a lot of reading and forums, like this on, and getting the same responses about cost/rigidity/precision and understand basically what I'll be trading off with cost/performance. If you have time could you let me know what you think of these design.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-Your-Own-DIY-CNC/
OpenBuilds OX CNC Machine | OpenBuilds

On a separate not, I'm starting to think about building with steel more, since the cost of these component's (support/frame) doesn't seem to be a large % of the build cost. The electronics & linear motion seem to be the greater
portion, and as someone else said, these cost aren't going to change.

Also, what do you think about this; building the machine I want first (which would take more time), versus building a smaller/cheaper/less precise machine and then upgrading or selling that one and building the one I want. Building the cheaper/smaller build would be a learning activity and I would limited by its size and performance.

Thanks!

[ger21]

The instructables machine is complete garbage.

The OX is probably 10x better, but it's still a very lightweight, entry level machine.

As Wizard alluded to, expectations play a huge role in determining what a "good" machine is for a person.
The problem, is that most beginners have no idea what to expect, or what they need.
People come here and ask these same questions about once a month. While most other hobby cnc sites will steer you to numerous low cost options, the members here tend to have much higher expectations, and know that there's a huge difference from the $1000-$2000 hobby machines to a really good quality cnc router. Unfortunately, that difference comes at a cost.

You said you wanted a machine for woodworking.
What type of woodworking do you do?
And what type of equipment do you have?

Let's try to put this in perspective.
A serious woodworker might have a $1500-$3000 cabinets saw, or a nice $1200 jointer, or a $1000 bandsaw. (or probably all of those).
For this type of person, the OX would be nothing but an entry level machine to learn on, to get an idea of what he really needs.
Imo, a serious woodworker would not be happy with anything that costs less than $4000-$5000.
The Ox might be a good fit for a person with a $300 benchtop table saw

Also, what do you think about this; building the machine I want first (which would take more time),

There's a major issue when you go this route. You don't have any experience, and will undoubtedly make quite a few mistakes in design and possibly component choices. These could end up being very costly to fix.

versus building a smaller/cheaper/less precise machine and then upgrading or selling that one and building the one I want. Building the cheaper/smaller build would be a learning activity

Imo, building a smaller machine will provide an invaluable learning experience that will serve you well when moving top a bigger machine.

I'm looking to keep the cost low and trying to figure out what size and precision I can expect at a certain cost.

Imo, size and precision have little to do with cost.
What cost dictates, is overall performance. Rigidity, speed and power.
Rigidity is probably the most important feature of a CNC router. It dictates how fast and deep you can cut, and the quality of the cut.

[jnutt]

Thanks Gerry, really great points I've been looking for. I'm thinking I'll try to build an ox like machine for now.

I'm a hobbyist and have the low end shop equipment. So, I think I'm ok with a slower, less powerful machine.

[ger21]

I would say that the OX is probably a decent way to go. It should be very quick and easy to get up and running, and will be a good learning experience. Not the most rigid machine, but you'll be able to turn out decent work, and really learn a lot.

[jnutt]

Are there any options with a build, that your aware of, that I could upgrade later on to improve rigidity/power?

Dumb question,but why is the ox (aluminum) more rigid than a mostly wood machine? Is it the wood itself, the joints or both?

[ger21]

Are there any options with a build, that your aware of, that I could upgrade later on to improve rigidity/power?

That's difficult to answer, and depends on the specific machine.
Say the machine has an aluminum extrusion gantry beam. You can replace it with a larger steel beam that is more rigid.
However, this will likely expose a lack of rigidity somewhere else.
Most of these lower end machines lack rigidity in all areas, and improving one area may only make a marginal difference.

Take the Ox, for instance. There are numerous weak areas.

Small extrusions. These can flex and twist.

Thin plates for mounting motors and supporting the gantry. These will flex.

Small, direct drive belt drive. Belts can have a "springiness", which can lead to "bounce" on quick stops and change of direction. They'll also stretch when heavily loaded, although they'll return to their original position.

Plastic V wheels for linear motion. Plastic is soft, and can distort under heavy loads. Also, V wheels (even steel ones) tend to have some play in the axial direction. When preloaded, it's not always easily noticeable, but it's there.

The Ox, and most other low cost machines, are designed to built cheaply, and easily. This is the opposite approach to take if you want the best possible machine.

Dumb question,but why is the ox (aluminum) more rigid than a mostly wood machine? Is it the wood itself, the joints or both?

Are you comparing it to the inventables machine, or wood machines in general?
I'm actually a big proponent of wood machines.
Imo, it's not the material, but how it's used. I feel that you can build a machine from wood that's comparable to an all aluminum machine.
It's possible to build a very rigid machine from wood, but it takes skill, knowledge, and a design that utilizes the materials properly. And it's a lot more work then bolting some aluminum together.

I'm actually building a large 4x10, mostly wood router. It uses a lot of laminated wood and torsion box construction, and most mounting surfaces are reinforced with phenolic, steel or aluminum. Cost will be in the $7000 range when I'm finished.

[Devastator]

I'm actually a big proponent of wood machines.
Imo, it's not the material, but how it's used. I feel that you can build a machine from wood that's comparable to an all aluminum machine.
It's possible to build a very rigid machine from wood, but it takes skill, knowledge, and a design that utilizes the materials properly. And it's a lot more work then bolting some aluminum together.

Well said. I think a heavy wood machine will have benefits over aluminum due to the dampening. Dimensional stability can be mitigated by laminations and proper sealing. The most important thing is to have proper reinforcement where all of your bolts go to keep from crushing the wood. Not just big washers more like steel plates or the aformentioned phenolic or similar like G10/FR4..

[louieatienza]

Every material you use, from MDF to wood to aluminum to steel to epoxy granite to cast iron will have their pros and cons as to availability, workability, weight, and longevity. And likely you'll trade one for the other depending on your abilities and capabilities.

Aluminum extrusion can be ordered precision cut to length, is easily attached and dismantled, and offers good strength to weight ratio. It does cost more per pound than some of the other materials.

Wood and wood products are easily bought and easily machined and dimensioned. As a woodworker you know there are certain provisions needed to keep fasteners held tight and a way to reinforce threaded sections and end joints. Also as wood will need to be sealed to protect against the elements. MDF has more requirements for fastening as the core is much softer than the skin, though with proper engineering that can be overcome; plus it's nice and flat relatively. Composites such as phenolic work really well (I used them for my machines) but they can be expensive. You can source them however from used bathroom partitions, and kitchen countertops (paperstone...) Paper based phenolic do cut well with woodworking tools.

Steel is inherently stiffer than aluminum and cheaper. The problem is machining it. Welding can also cause issues such as warpage unless stress-relieved. The weight is a good thing but also a detriment if the machine needs to be moved. Also despite the weight, steel and aluminum can be prone to vibration, which can be mitigated with damping materials.

Cast iron has been used for machine tools for the last couple centuries, and for good reason: it is inherently vibration damping, strong, and can be cast to most any shape needed. The problem is, it requires patterns to be made for casting, and machining of mating surfaces afterwards. All this can add up to the cost real quick, and it's probably the heaviest of all the options.

Epoxy granite can be a good alternative to cast iron, but again a mold need to be made with special care. Resin is not exactly cheap (ok, it's expensive!) But parts can be cast into the mold, and it has very good damping qualities. Special provisions need to be made for fasteners and mating surfaces. Also heavy as hell.

I'd say the best machine for you may end up being a combination of all these different methods and materials. There is a benefit of using dissimilar materials as far as transference of vibrations as well.

[wizard]

Thanks Wizard, I've doing a lot of reading and forums, like this on, and getting the same responses about cost/rigidity/precision and understand basically what I'll be trading off with cost/performance. If you have time could you let me know what you think of these design.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-Your-Own-DIY-CNC/
OpenBuilds OX CNC Machine | OpenBuilds

I wouldn't waste my time! I'm not trying to insult the original builder but that is not a very rigid machine at all. A single sheet of cabinet grade plywood would go much farther if a proper design was executed. You really want a box beam for the gantry and with a bit of thought it could be well done in one final assembly.

On a separate not, I'm starting to think about building with steel more, since the cost of these component's (support/frame) doesn't seem to be a large % of the build cost.

I'm not sure I agree with some of the other guys, the framing can become a very significant expense as the machine becomes larger. That is the case if the frame is steel, wood or Krell metal. Steel isn't that bad when all things are considered if a design is executed that has a minimal of welding or welded components that can be easily heat treaded and machined afterwards. The more you weld on the steel the greater the need for post machining and stress relief.

The electronics & linear motion seem to be the greater
portion, and as someone else said, these cost aren't going to change.

The costs will change if the machine is significantly larger than what you started thinking about. At some point you just need more power to move the gantry and other axises around.

Also, what do you think about this; building the machine I want first (which would take more time), versus building a smaller/cheaper/less precise machine and then upgrading or selling that one and building the one I want.

Selling a machine brings up all sort of nasty legal questions such as do you want to be legally responsible for it. I wouldn't get to excited about a quick sell off, especially as a completed machine.

In the end whom says that you can only have one machine? Build a decent small machine, that is capable and you will continue to find uses for it even when you upgrade to larger machine.

Building the cheaper/smaller build would be a learning activity and I would limited by its size and performance.

Thanks!

Ultimately you need to define what your immediate needs are. If the immediate need is to carve up sheet goods then a small machine doesn't make sense, you need a machine that can handle sheet goods. On the other hand if your immediate needs are to learn and maybe machine smaller pieces then you can certainly get buy with a smaller machine.

By the way a smaller machine doesn't mean limited performance. For a given investment in electronics you should get better performance.