[drumsticksplint]

Hi Guys,

I thought I'd just start the thread to document the process of buying a chinese machine. I'm from the UK, so my experience might be slightly different from most users on here....

Anyway, I've come to the realisation that my machine I'm building isn't going to get finished and I'm loosing work that could earn me money. The best option for me at this stage is to buy a new machine and that points me in the direction of the Chinese market.

I have read through a few forums about buying from China and there are some horror stories, but there are many many happy customers, who now own machines that are just as capable of machine manufactured in the USA, Canada, UK etc etc, but for a fraction of the price. I'm hoping to add to that list with my purchase.

Reading through many posts I've heard good things about Omni cnc and Quick cnc, so thats where I start first. I have contacted both companies and have found both Taney from Quick and Jack from Omni to be fantastic at replying with information, prices and advice. I'm looking for an 8 x 4 machine or 1325 format as they commonly come in (2500 x 1300). With my budget as my guide I find that the K45MT / 1325 and the Omni 1325 are my best options, both with similar specifications, both similar prices.

Quick K45MT/1325: This was the first machine that I looked into and I really liked the look of the quality of the machine and other users have documented their machine purchases with detailed photographs, which is really helpful and encouraging! When I first made contact with Taney he was more then helpful and was very forthcoming with information and prices. I was provided with a price list of all the machines and configurations within that machine type, so I could see what my money could get me. The prices also had 15% discount at this point, which made it even better! I was lucky enough to find an old customer of Quick with the same machine only in a bigger format and not to far from me. I went to view his machine this week and was very happy with the overall build quality and sturdiness, the machine was a few years old, but still performed very well.

Omni 1325: I thought I'd settled on the Quick machine, but tried Omni just to settle my mind. Jack has been very good to deal with and he replies very quickly with the information that I required. I would say that Omni allowed me to customise a quote a little better and to add on and take away what I wanted, maybe it was just the questions I asked? There seems to be a good following of these machines and many fans of Jack's willingness to help. I haven't yet seen an Omni machine in person, but I'm quite confident that the quality will equal that of Quick's

So.... I'm in a dilemma.... Which machine??

Just from personal preference alone I think I'm leaning towards the Omni 1325 with 6kw air cooled spindle, vac bed, mach3 (for now) and possibly servo's... The servo option is slightly more than I can afford and this would be for chinese servo's and drives. I was working on the theory that if my machine had cheap steppers and drives, if 1 failed then I could replace cheaply and quickly, or even keep some as spares just in case. However, with servo's I think these might be more durable, but costly to replace. I'd like the speed, smoothness and accuracy I'd get with the servo's or perhaps i don't really need them?? Any experiences and advice would be welcome on this matter. I'm thinking mach3 for now because I don't really like the DSP controller, that and I eventually want to upgrade to an atc spindle, so could incorporate this into mach3 or Eding cnc, which is what I will probably end up with.

Anyway, these are my thoughts for now. If anyone has any additional things to consider then please feel free to chip in

[gfacer]

I would easily go servos and slightly smaller on the spindle. The servos should be Japanese brand but well worth moving the budget for.

[drumsticksplint]

Do you think 4.5Kw would be adequate for woods and plastics? My thinking was if I were to opt for servos to get more useable speed then I'd need a higher powered spindle for bigger cuts? The Yaskawa servo package was a bit more expensive again, the price I was looking at was for Inovence Chinese servo's and drives. Steppers would be ok, but if I wanted to upgrade later on then It'd probably cost me more for the servo package, plus I'd have already paid for the steppers, which will then be redundant....

What machine do you have gfacer and with what spec?

Thanks

[gfacer2]

Yes 4.5kw is fine for wood and plastic, you're speed is limited in plastic and in solid woods. Unless you are blowing through mdf all day 4.5kw is fine. Yaskawa servos are well known, I've never heard of the Chinese brand you mentioned.

We don't have a Chinese router (yet) but we have several cnc machines and our next will likely be Chinese.

[drumsticksplint]

Cool, Well that might save me a bit of cash then. yeah Yaskawa should be what I'm aiming for really! What size vacuum pump do you use for an 8 x 4 vacuum table (if any). I'e already got a 4.8Kw blower type kicking around, the package from Omni comes with a 5.5Kw, I'm wondering if I might be able to cut back on that to help fund the servos? Probably Kw doesn't mean very much and more the performance of the pump, but I guess Kw serves as a rough guide??

[gfacer2]

I have a 7.5 hp blower for a 4x5 table. Greg has a 15hp for a 5x10. But his performance curve is also higher vacuum. I'll be moving to a 15hp next. You'll only ever want more vacuum...

[drumsticksplint]

Well if I decided to go with Quick cnc K45MT then the package includes a 7.5kw / 10HP regenerative blower vacuum pump Omni has offered a 5.5kw / 7.5HP

I might have made a compromise on the stepper / servo scenario too, I've been offered the option to have Leadshine hybrid servos, which is basically a type of stepper motor but with encoder feedback. This offers the best of both worlds really, the accuracy and performance similar to a servo, but with the simpler and cheaper control of a stepper. I was looking the these to use on a lathe retrofit some time ago, I also use Leadshine steppers on my plasma cutter and have played around with a few of their other drives. Nice quality, reliability and quite reasonably priced. I don't think I can really afford the AC servo package at this stage, unless I go for the cheapest chinese system, which could be asking for trouble. At least with a stepper system if something goes wrong its peanuts to replace

Anyway, I have to make my decision by next week as the 6 to 8 weeks delivery to the UK will put me right into the middle of summer, the time I need to try and establish a decent customer base before the work dies back into winter. Any more advice that will help me make my decision will be helpful.

[gfacer]

On paper it should work, but I can't see pushing these machines with steppers, esp. not fast. Would not do it myself....for example my CNT, mostly aluminum, has 1000w servos on XY. The omnibus and other Chinese machines has 850w on a heavier machine. That's probably OK due to the nature of servos but something with discrete steps to lose (then recovered for I understand) would worry me more....although tuning is easier.

But, you can always put in servos later too, dmm sells reasonable kits for example.

As for the vacuum, depends what you are cutting. Regen blowers good for porous materials like MDF, and work well enough for non porous like plastic, but there is also the Becker style pumps, more pressure for the KW buy less airflow. Consider what works best for you.

[gfacer]

To add, these machines are a lot heavier than a plasma would be!

[drumsticksplint]

Yes I know hybrid servo's are a bit of a compromise, but they are offering hybrid servo's / steppers for the same price as conventional steppers, which makes sense to me. I'm contemplating whether I can afford proper servo's and if the cost increase would benefit me initially, like you say, I could always add servo's at a later date. The hybrid servo also works similar to servo's but instead of losing steps, servo's just have a positional error, which is feedback and corrected within the closed loop system. The only difference would be performance at higher speed, this is where the servo would be ideal.

I'll check out dmm for servo's though.

Ok, I'll stick to the higher Kw for the vacuum pump. It will have to be regen blower for now as the Becker types are serious ££££'s

[gfacer]

The other thing, though minor, is that steppers will whine and sing, whereas servo motors just go quietly.... I don't miss that but not such a big deal with the spindle cutting. What was the savings anyways?

[drumsticksplint]

Just a quick update, I will be going for the Leadshine hybrid servo / stepper system. Taney has been very good and offered me a good price for this system (I won't say how much to protect his sales technique). I will pay for the machine in the next couple of days once I get the funds in place.

The machine I'm going for is the Quick K45MT / 1325, 4.5kw air cooled spindle, leadshine hybrid servo's, 7.5Kw vacuum pump with bakelite integrated T slot table and DSP A11 control. I've been promised pictures of the machine build, so will share them here for you all to see.

[simplesimon]

We have just got our 2030 Omni machine running today. You are welcome to come and see it if you are near Northampton. We have a few gripes but it is a lot of machine for the money.

[drumsticksplint]

We have just got our 2030 Omni machine running today. You are welcome to come and see it if you are near Northampton. We have a few gripes but it is a lot of machine for the money.

Thanks for the offer, I'm not all that far away from you, I'm in Stoke-on-Trent. I'm just curious to know what issues you've had with your omni? Which motors etc did you go for, do you have any pics etc? Thanks.

[drumsticksplint]

Ok, a slight backtrack on my last update.... This has been quite a stressful experience and I haven't really made it any easier by comparing 2 machines that appear to be on par with each other. The Quick k45mt and the Omni 1325. In the end I have gone with the Omni, although I was so close to putting down the payment for the Quick cnc. The only thing that swung it for me was the package that Jack is doing for me and the price! I've put down a deposit for the following machine: 1325 work area with 4.5Kw spindle 7.5Kw Delta inverter, 7.5kw dry vacuum pump, 750w AC servo's, Vacuum table with integrated 'T' slots, DSP A11.

I will update here with the progress and hopefully some build photo's

[gfacer]

Sounds nice, hope all goes smoothly. Keep us updated!

[drumsticksplint]

Hi guys, not much of an update, but I'm trying to keep this thread going... I spoke with Jack from omni earlier this week, maybe Monday ish, My machine was around 60% complete at that stage and he was going to send some pictures in the next couple of days. I'm super excited to see the machine for the first time cant wait!

As soon as the pictures land in my inbox I'll be sure to post them up here for you all to see.

I'm just anticipating the logistics of getting the machine into my workshop this end... I only have a small doorway, so the machine will have to go in on its side with the gantry removed, there is no other way! I'm not really worried about taking off the gantry and cabling, its more about handling the weight of the framework through my doorway and into my workshop. I do have a forklift though, its only 1 tonne but I've moved all my other machinery in with it

Anyway, once the machine is over here then I can ponder over that some more.

[gfacer]

That sounds crazy to me!

With our first cnc and previous shop, we removed a wall and rebuilt it as a removable section to allow the machine in and out, this all after going in a overhead door. That seriously may be an easier approach to what you are describing. I guess the 1 ton forklift fits through the door? What size is the door? We've dealt with some really good crane operators that might be able to lift a machine through a door if high enough....otherwise, just heavy duty machine moving trucks and the forklift will have to work.

I could see you might need steel brackets welded up to have the machine stay nice and vertical while on it's side.

good luck!

[drumsticksplint]

That sounds crazy to me!

Haha well I am 2 parts crazy, 1 part disaster me!!

well I have been trying to get my landlord to put in a roller shutter door so I can get stuff in and out more easily, but he's reluctant to pay for it. Also, with only having the small doorway it doesn't look like somewhere worth bothering with for potential thieves, so I've put up with the doorway for that reason.

The only entrance is 4ft wide by 7ft high, my fork truck does fit through nicely though

I could see you might need steel brackets welded up to have the machine stay nice and vertical while on it's side.

Yes I think I'm going to design some sort of steel bracing framework to steady it as it goes in. I'm guessing that the bare frame without the gantry will weigh just over 1 ton being as the quoted total shipping weight is 1600Kg If anyone can give me a more accurate guestimate then that would be useful.

Thanks

[drumsticksplint]

Hi guys,

Ok well I've had some pictures through of my machine so far.... Jack said there was another 3 days work to do before it is ready to despatch Time to get things ready this end then!

Anyway, here are the pictures of the nearly complete machine: