[bhaley66]

Hey guys,

I have a very small fab shop mostly doing my own prototype pieces for the specialized automated equipment I manufacture.

I have come across a possibility to obtain a Multicam MG 207. I'm pretty confident I can get a darn good deal on it (I have witnessed/received stupid good deals from this source in the past). However, I don't have a significant need for a router, let alone a 16' router. I have seen it run personally many times, and it is in good working order.

Real shot in the dark here... So, my questions (probably very naive, and I fully understand the difficulty of answering all )

1. Idea of what's a fair market value??? (if I were to try to flip it)
2. A plasma would be much more suitable for my type of work... I have a lot of interest in a high definition plasma; I'm confident in my ability to build a CNC plasma from the ground up, or work through the issues of convert something. What is the likelihood of converting something like this to a plasma? What would be the limitations? Even worth considering???
3. Anyone have an idea what the cost of a mid level high definition plasma power source runs?

Thank you!
Brandon

[Exhibitology]

The value of the machine all depends on the routers features. Spindle HP? ATC? Tool holders included. Stepper or servo motors. Condition of the bearings and ball screws.

I just bought a 2002 MG204 for $8000. It had a 4 HP spindle. Stepper motors. No ATC. A dead control pendant. A Z axis configured wrong. A ton of aftermarket wiring. The inverter is controlled by ModBus. Once it's disconnected you'll get a startup error. I'm still looking for a workaround. It has taken a month to start making parts with it. It has great bones though and I like its color.

As to making it into a plasma, don't bother. There are structural issues with the frame being in the cutting path. There are issues with configuring the parameters to control the start and stop of the cut.

I've had 4 AXYZ routers, 3 Centroid routers, 1 Flexicam, and now one Multicam. I'm only 1 month into learning my way, but my impression is that Multicam isn't as user friendly if you go off the reservation. If you want to trick it out with anything but a spindle. Nobody here has much good to say about their tech support and you'll likely need it. Everyone thinks tech support and parts are too expensive. I've only reached out to them to explore the costs of tech support and they were friendly and helpful.

If you want to trick out a used machine, I'd choose and AXYZ. Their manuals are very thorough. They offer tech support plans. They are almost all stepper motors which are stupid simple to setup and maintain. I've tricked out several machines. I can't speak for their newer machines. The newest one I'd owned was 2003.

As to HiDef Plasma, you could get one new for $52,000.

Best of luck.

Rich

[bhaley66]

Thank's a bunch for your insight Rich!

To answer a few of the key questions you mentioned:

It has a 10hp spindle
Servo Motors
8 tool ATC
I definitely don't know for sure, but I'm pretty confident that all the wiring is stock. It's a second owner machine that was never heavily used.
It has a computer with software complete in its own mobile cabinet.
It has some tool holders, and tooling (not much)

I didn't expect the plasma conversion to be much of an option either.

For $52,000 is that for the power source unit, and gas mixer (or whatever else is needed other than the table & controls? I honestly don't know much about them at this point)

[xjdubber]

I would not expect to pay much for a machine that old. its going to have problems soon. I will have yaskawa servo's as that is what multicam was using at that point which are excellent servos. what does it have for hold down? and if its a vacuum table will it come with the pump(s). The last multicam i serviced that was 16' foot (5000 series) had a total of 60 hp of vacuum pumps. that electrical bill and power is something to consider.

[bhaley66]

Thank you. Have a better idea of what "not expect to pay much" would mean? I'm honestly looking for a range to have an idea of whether or not to even consider it... I understand the difficulty of putting numbers to it.

It does have a 1"(?) Phenolic(?) vacuum table, and will come with the pumps.

[xjdubber]

Thank you. Have a better idea of what "not expect to pay much" would mean? I'm honestly looking for a range to have an idea of whether or not to even consider it... I understand the difficulty of putting numbers to it.

It does have a 1"(?) Phenolic(?) vacuum table, and will come with the pumps.

I personally would not pay more for it then i could get out of it for salvage, which i would think would be no more than 10-15k. Not knowing hours and, maintenance on both the machine and the pumps, and what kind of pumps they are, makes it next to impossible to put a value to it... i would say 30k tops.. new this machine would have been around 120k i think again depending on options.

[bhaley66]

I personally would not pay more for it then i could get out of it for salvage, which i would think would be no more than 10-15k. Not knowing hours and, maintenance on both the machine and the pumps, and what kind of pumps they are, makes it next to impossible to put a value to it... i would say 30k tops.. new this machine would have been around 120k i think again depending on options.

Thank you again. I understand how tough it is, so definitely didn't expect any more of a detailed guess than that...

[MCPservice]

I have my 2 cents to put in with a couple of twist.


1. An idea of what's a fair market value??? (if I were to try to flip it). The hardest thing with this machine will be the size of this machine it has all the positives i would look for in this machine 10HP spindle, servos and T/C with that said, if it is in good condition and it has a M24 rev 5/K520 rev 5 control board (this older control board is still supported/repaired, I would say 15k-20K, you indicated pumps, if there are 2 20hp or more pumps, you might be able to squeeze a little more.

2. A plasma would be much more suitable for my type of work... I have a lot of interest in a high definition plasma; I'm confident in my ability to build a CNC plasma from the ground up, or work through the issues of convert something. What is the likelihood of converting something like this to a plasma? What would be the limitations? Even worth considering??? My answer here would be find some older iron out there that is already a plasma table, you can find something out there for about 8k-10K, shoot for a offer price closer to 5K, strip it of the old system. You have a great base to start with, you can now add newer power unit , auto gas, torches and controls.

3. Anyone have an idea what the cost of a mid level high definition plasma power source runs? I am a distributor and can refit machines with Lincoln cutting systems give me a call to discuss what you are trying to do as far as material and thickness, those are the defining factors with plasma, but if you choose to retrofit a older machine, there are a few other options to factor into with this configuration.
Maurice Phelps
678-548-1483
MCP Services

[Exhibitology]

Send me your email address and I'll forward the quote we got from Laguna last year.

Rich

[Exhibitology]

As to the fair market value of a Multicam MG 207: Last year I bought a 2008 Flexicam Stealth 1540 for $36,500. It has a 5'x12' table and an ATC. It came with two 10 hp vacuum pumps.

$36,500 seemed a fair price to pay. I'd seen other makes of comparable stats go at auction in this price range.

I needed a machine post haste. Supply and demand.

Below is the quote I received for a Laguna Hi-Def Plasma.

MCNC Plasma
60 x 120 plasma table
Ultra-Cut 100, Manual Gas Box) 50'torch
CNC Installation-2days
Best method of Shipping included
Total $51,707.00

[bhaley66]

Hey Guys,

First off, thank you all for the information! Very helpful.

I have a deal mostly worked out, and am going to look at flipping it as quick as possible. I will be able to leave the machine hooked up, and operational for a week or two while it waits for it's HAAS replacement to show up.

I talked to the one person who operates more in depth, and it has an issue that happens sporadically. It has a servo fault while running sometimes, and the program has to be reran from zero apparently. It sometimes will run a multiple hour job flawlessly, and then the next job ran will have the error one time after another (sometimes months between jobs). After speaking with MultiCam, they claim to have swapped servos around with each other, as well as the drives; they figure it is narrowed down to one of the wires. The machine has been owned and operated by the company that owns it now since 2008, but has been used very little (like definitely less than 100 hours per year), and therefore has not had much attention in trying to solve the issue. Aside from this everything appears to work flawlessly (though it does need some of the new ATC plastic forks replaced).

The vacuum system is MultiCam's TurboVac 425

Here are a few pictures I captured to show more detail:




Spindle Motor:

Servo Motor (X Axis - I imagine they are all the same? This is the only one I could snap a picture of quick, and easily.)









Thank you guys again for the information. If you have anymore helpful information, I'd love to hear it (i.e. good places to advertise, details I may not think of to include, etc...) Let me know if you would like to know more, and I'll gladly work on more details. I have very easy access to it any time of the day.

[xjdubber]

It says largest more for 4 HP you sure that has a 10hp spindle? Most like fault is an encoder wiring issue control wiring looks to be messed with...

Edit: see the pic if the spindle motor now. So that is not the original spindle to the machine