[Fairways_Greens]

Hello all. I want to start making stainless steel golf putters. Would the PM-25MV handle this task well assuming I'm buying good quality cutters?

[hanermo]

Yes. No. It depends.

It certainly *can* make putters.
Its almost certainly not an economical route.

Look...
Making a putter pictured costs about 5-10 minutes on a "real" machining center with 40 Hp. Say, 100$ / hr. == 10 per hour for 10$ each.

On a light machine, with 1 Hp at very best in practical use, it might take 1 hour for the putter.
At 15$/hr == 15$ each.

15$/hr is not enough to pay the operator, the machine, electricity, overhead etc.
Practical minimums are in the 30/hr range.

How do you plan to do toolchanges ?

[louieatienza]

Yes. No. It depends.

It certainly *can* make putters.
Its almost certainly not an economical route.

Look...
Making a putter pictured costs about 5-10 minutes on a "real" machining center with 40 Hp. Say, 100$ / hr. == 10 per hour for 10$ each.

On a light machine, with 1 Hp at very best in practical use, it might take 1 hour for the putter.
At 15$/hr == 15$ each.

15$/hr is not enough to pay the operator, the machine, electricity, overhead etc.
Practical minimums are in the 30/hr range.

How do you plan to do toolchanges ?

A new Scotty Cameron putter at Golfsmith runs almost $300. I can't even imagine what a custom made and fitted one costs. So I think there's money to be made here...

[hanermo]

There may well be money to be made, but the money is not likely to be in manufacturing, at high cost, on a very small machine, very limited quantities.
Its like making tool and cutter grinder.
Example:
I can make a one-off like a Quorn in maybe 200 hours.
About 50-80 hours each IF I do 100 of them.
BUT..
There wont be a market for 100 units (there is a market for 2-3),
at 100$ an hour (my minimum useful rate, where its profitable), 50 hr*80 = 4000 $ just for the work.

There is a market at 1000$ total cost, for 200 hours, 3$ /hr (400 in parts).

High end golf putters are branded consumer goods.
They have nothing to do with manufacturing (trivial, easy, cheap) and everything to do with marketing, sales, distribution, financing.

But I did not comment on that part of the business, really.
Just that its not economically viable to make small steel objects like that on a small manual (refit) mill.

Its not economically viable if you can make them with 5x less work, and for half the cost, by having them made on a machining center.
Technically viable, yes.
And I dont think there is any reason that they would be any less good if made on the small mill, not all all.
Could theoretically be just as good or better.
Just too slow, vs costs of getting them done on a bigger machine.

And again, I am not saying You, or the OP, cannot make and sell putters.
I am pretty sure I could, given the effort.
Just that that major part of the effort will not in the the manufacturing, but somewhere completely different, not related to the actual metal cutting.

Also, golf shafts (and grips) are high tech components, with different tensiles ratings, angles, stiffness ratings and sizes.
Getting these done will not be a trivial undertaking.
You cannot make just one - and two shafts should be equal, you need consistency.
The grip thickness and material(s) should be consistent from one to the other.

Financing these will not be trivial = financing will cost about the same as a new machining center at 50k$ give or take.

Just some of the first, obvious, points, from a business and golf POV.

A new Scotty Cameron putter at Golfsmith runs almost $300. I can't even imagine what a custom made and fitted one costs. So I think there's money to be made here...

[louieatienza]

There may well be money to be made, but the money is not likely to be in manufacturing, at high cost, on a very small machine, very limited quantities.
Its like making tool and cutter grinder.
Example:
I can make a one-off like a Quorn in maybe 200 hours.
About 50-80 hours each IF I do 100 of them.
BUT..
There wont be a market for 100 units (there is a market for 2-3),
at 100$ an hour (my minimum useful rate, where its profitable), 50 hr*80 = 4000 $ just for the work.

There is a market at 1000$ total cost, for 200 hours, 3$ /hr (400 in parts).

High end golf putters are branded consumer goods.
They have nothing to do with manufacturing (trivial, easy, cheap) and everything to do with marketing, sales, distribution, financing.

But I did not comment on that part of the business, really.
Just that its not economically viable to make small steel objects like that on a small manual (refit) mill.

Its not economically viable if you can make them with 5x less work, and for half the cost, by having them made on a machining center.
Technically viable, yes.
And I dont think there is any reason that they would be any less good if made on the small mill, not all all.
Could theoretically be just as good or better.
Just too slow, vs costs of getting them done on a bigger machine.

And again, I am not saying You, or the OP, cannot make and sell putters.
I am pretty sure I could, given the effort.
Just that that major part of the effort will not in the the manufacturing, but somewhere completely different, not related to the actual metal cutting.

Also, golf shafts (and grips) are high tech components, with different tensiles ratings, angles, stiffness ratings and sizes.
Getting these done will not be a trivial undertaking.
You cannot make just one - and two shafts should be equal, you need consistency.
The grip thickness and material(s) should be consistent from one to the other.

Financing these will not be trivial = financing will cost about the same as a new machining center at 50k$ give or take.

Just some of the first, obvious, points, from a business and golf POV.

Having actually built golf clubs I can say that:

1) There's not too much choice in shaft really for putters. Straight tip and tapered tip. Flex is not much an issue since it is not swung like an iron or wood. Then bend point, stiffness, becomes an issue because of the speed and characteristics of the swing.
2) The grip is sized to the individuals' hands and preferences.

As to the actual head, I don't see anything in this post that would suggest this as a mass production thing. For custom work or even small run production I don't see the big deal.

[Fairways_Greens]

It would be very boutique. No production runs beyond roughing out the heads and finishing them to custom specs later. So as long as I'm OK spending 1 hour/head a PM-25MV will do fine?

[SCzEngrgGroup]

A single piece head, as pictured, will take WAY more than an hour to make on a small machine - that is a LOT of material to remove, and with SS you don't go fast unless you have a VERY rigid, very powerful machine....

Regards,
Ray L.

[louieatienza]

A single piece head, as pictured, will take WAY more than an hour to make on a small machine - that is a LOT of material to remove, and with SS you don't go fast unless you have a VERY rigid, very powerful machine....

Regards,
Ray L.

I would make the hosel separate, which would cut down on machining time. I've seen designs as well with no hosel, shaft attaching directly to the head, with the shaft being bent.

[lcvette]

I think you would be far ahead of the game with a softer material like brass or bronze.. Then offer resurfacing service and rebalancing as needed for a small fee.

The PM25 isn't going to cut stainless very well unless it's a really free machining grade and then you will probably not be using the best type for the application .

If you make them from brass, you could chew through them pretty quick.

I would still look at the charter Oaks mill instead as it will be much more rigid and provide a better surface finish. And you will have more table surface for larger batch runs to cut down on on tool changes and people interaction time. Just make some creative fixtures and run multiple parts.

I think it's a cool idea but you need to aim for a bigger machine then the PM25 IMO.

Chris

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

[hanermo]

Agree 100% with Ray.
Estimate 3-5 hours with small machine, could be double.

A single piece head, as pictured, will take WAY more than an hour to make on a small machine - that is a LOT of material to remove, and with SS you don't go fast unless you have a VERY rigid, very powerful machine....

Regards,
Ray L.