[NickB00]

Ok, wow, yeah it might be my laptop causing this. Its a ebook so it is not really a powerful machine but it is worth trying to see if another computer fixes that problem.
The first thing that I noticed when the problem occurred was that everything stopped moving and the spindle went into idle speed and it just sat there about 90% into the finishing pass.
I tried to move z up and down on the remote 1mm at a time but no movement available. So I set the line number about 100 lines back and hit start from here button and then hit Cycle Start and that screen comes up with checkbox for safe Z height and to Start the Spindle etc and hit OK & Cycle Start again and it lifted up a bit and went left a bit and stopped so I did it again and it went all the way to the left (as per the picture) and I stopped it and gave up.
Mach 3 stopped as well at whatever line number it was and did not progress any further. No I have not ground the frame. It seems to be OK but I will consider that. What is the easiest way to do this? I will try another computer as well.
THANKS EVERYONE for your input...!!

When it just stopped, was the spindle still running and if so did it momentarily dip out? That'd indicate a power bounce on the controller which, on the black boxes, comes from the computer.

Did Mach3 say anything when it stopped? Did it stop on the line on which the machine had stopped? Or did it play through to the end of the program leaving the machine waiting?

Did you end up grounding the frame? Different results but this kind of hokiness went away when I did that. Personally my next step would be grab another computer and see if the problem follows you. Even a $30 bunky from gumtree would do for this if you don't have another laying about. If it isn't the computer (ie it happens again) next step is to see if it will play the path happily with the spindle off. This way you eliminate the biggest source of noise. If that fixes it, it's time to look at some shielding or cable routing changes to keep the noise away from the USB cable and the breakout board in the black box.

No easy answer I'm afraid, you're going to need to put your super sleuth hat on and start eliminating possible causes one by one.

[NickB00]

Hi, I have wound all my steppers back and forth and they are free. I dont think there is any binding. Air flow is good I think there are no obstructions.
This problem has only occurred since I got a new bench, with the Omio on top and Control Box on a shelf underneath including the laptop, to keep them away from the dust etc..
There are 2 USB ports on the laptop, one has a USB cable from control box and the other has a 4 port usb hub with a usb dongle for the hand controller and also the remote keyboard/mouse dongle.
Maybe I have too much stuff on it, but the problem still existed prior to putting on the USB hub and remote keyboard..but only after I relocated the Omio to a new bench.
cheers

What Dharmic said....
I don't know where to start.....
If it takes 2 hours to fail......maybe it is rated to to heat? Maybe check your components next time it fails. Have you got any air flow through your controller?

I ahd a problem with my X61500GT that I didn't discover for 3 years....The Y axis had 2.6mm of misaligment between the Ball Nut and the carriage. It was binding.
Steppers could overcome the extra load to a certain extent.

With all power OFF the machine wind all the axis's for full travel in BOTH direction by hand ( do you have knobs on the back of your steppers? )
They all should be VERY free with NO binding.

I found 2 issues. Misalignement AND Ballscrew was binding in 1 Direction only! Could only feel it with this test.

I had to mostly dismantle my machine to re-shim and setup axis. tool a long time......

Steve

[NickB00]

Hi, I am not getting any errors that I know of, but I did not really look on the screen to see what it said after it stopped working, maybe it did say something??? I will look out for the xhcpod error next time it happens
cheers

Mine has a similar issue. Except my X ballscrew is slightly too long. It has bent slightly in one place.

If you're getting the find no xhcpod error (or whatever it says) it's probably due to interference. I had issues with that right until I got a proper copper braided CY cable on my spindle, and on the odd rare occasion it does still crap out. USB isn't the best here. I also took the VFD out of the black box and set it out to the side, routed the spindle cable in the opposite direction and kept the USB cable as far away from it as I could, making sure they do not cross paths.


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[dharmic]

Re grounding:
- Take out one of the bolts that's used to hang the frame of the machine together to get sizing. One of the ones whose head sticks out, not a counterbored one.
- Take it to Bunnings (home despot or B&Q equivalent for anyone overseas)
- Get yourself some single core multistrand wire that's reasonably chunky. I used an offcut of mains three core cable and pulled out the green/yellow earth wire on mine.
- Get yourself a mains plug.
- Get yourself an eye crimp terminal ( crimp terminal with a washer on it) that's the right size for the bolt and for your wire.
- Get yourself a star washer.
- Strip and crimp one end of the wire into the eye. Put it and the washer onto the frame in the order frame-washer-eye crimp-bolt.
- Strip the other end, feed it through the back of the mains plug shell, terminate it onto the middle pin (the earth pin).
- Plug it in.

[Sterob]

I'd also consider using a PC and not a Laptop. Some have found USB's on Laptops to not be as robust.
Try to minimise your USB devices as well.

[NickB00]

Thanks dharmic, will do!!

Re grounding:
- Take out one of the bolts that's used to hang the frame of the machine together to get sizing. One of the ones whose head sticks out, not a counterbored one.
- Take it to Bunnings (home despot or B&Q equivalent for anyone overseas)
- Get yourself some single core multistrand wire that's reasonably chunky. I used an offcut of mains three core cable and pulled out the green/yellow earth wire on mine.
- Get yourself a mains plug.
- Get yourself an eye crimp terminal ( crimp terminal with a washer on it) that's the right size for the bolt and for your wire.
- Get yourself a star washer.
- Strip and crimp one end of the wire into the eye. Put it and the washer onto the frame in the order frame-washer-eye crimp-bolt.
- Strip the other end, feed it through the back of the mains plug shell, terminate it onto the middle pin (the earth pin).
- Plug it in.

[NickB00]

I have an old XP?? computer that I will try. I will do the grounding fix first though and see if that works. If not then will try a proper computer.
Many thanks..

I'd also consider using a PC and not a Laptop. Some have found USB's on Laptops to not be as robust.
Try to minimise your USB devices as well.

[Mmpie]

Hi, I have wound all my steppers back and forth and they are free. I dont think there is any binding. Air flow is good I think there are no obstructions.
This problem has only occurred since I got a new bench, with the Omio on top and Control Box on a shelf underneath including the laptop, to keep them away from the dust etc..
There are 2 USB ports on the laptop, one has a USB cable from control box and the other has a 4 port usb hub with a usb dongle for the hand controller and also the remote keyboard/mouse dongle.
Maybe I have too much stuff on it, but the problem still existed prior to putting on the USB hub and remote keyboard..but only after I relocated the Omio to a new bench.
cheers

Nick, it's pretty hard to miss the error message flashing on the mach3 screen, so presumably it's not this, but considering the changes you've made USB dropout is a distinct possibility. IIRC the spindle will stop and the reset button will be flashing in mach3 which will need to be pressed to connect back to the machine, the error message will be flashing in the little text box next to the reset button. People generally recommend not to have anything else running off that USB bus/chain thing whatever it's called, which in a laptop the two ports are almost certainly going to be running off the same board. So try running it with no other USB devices plugged in

But that said losing all that position sounds like missed steps somewhere, or at least mach3 thinks it's moving when in reality it's not, which shouldn't happen to that extent with the USB dropout problem. You will lose position with that but only by the minuscule distance it takes the machine to physically stop from whatever speed it was going, because mach3 will still think it was in exactly the same spot it was in the moment the connection dropped.

For future reference I have found that restarting mid code in mach3 can be a crap shoot and it's far more reliable to just make a new code file starting at some point not too far behind where you left off (appreciate this might not be so easy with one of those 3D wood carvings) and also jogging the machine at any time during a file will make it lose its place and it will restart relative to the position it's in when you press start. So if it paused/stopped and you jogged it over to that side a bit before continuing the file, that would explain why it went so far over there. I'm not entirely sure why this happens because in my mind it shouldn't. Maybe the restart 'safe z, start spindle, move to coordinates' thing uses relative positioning. Not sure, never looked in to it, just accepted it is what it is and remembered never to move it under these circumstances



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[NickB00]

Yes I remember the spindle stopped and the RESET button was flashing, but I did not look for an error message. There probably was one there but I didnt look. So once you press RESET then what? I usually go back 50 or 100 lines from where it stopped and press START FROM HERE and hit CYCLE START when the safe z height and start spindle box appears and I press OK and CYCLE START AGAIN and off it goes and the spindle lifts and moves back and starts its thing but usually a little bit out, as you say. Also the safe Z height is at 5mm default I think and I have noticed it is not enough and it knocks of a bit of wood off nearby as it moves back. The USB stuff may also be the cause but I had the same thing happen without all the USB gear on too. I think though that the dust-shoe brush length was a problem then getting caught up in the bit. I will try again without all the USB gear and without the dustshoe (now trimmed) and see what happens....stay tuned!!

Its interesting what you say that Safe Z Start Spindle may use relative positioning? May have something to so with it as well?
many thanks..

Nick, it's pretty hard to miss the error message flashing on the mach3 screen, so presumably it's not this, but considering the changes you've made USB dropout is a distinct possibility. IIRC the spindle will stop and the reset button will be flashing in mach3 which will need to be pressed to connect back to the machine, the error message will be flashing in the little text box next to the reset button. People generally recommend not to have anything else running off that USB bus/chain thing whatever it's called, which in a laptop the two ports are almost certainly going to be running off the same board. So try running it with no other USB devices plugged in

But that said losing all that position sounds like missed steps somewhere, or at least mach3 thinks it's moving when in reality it's not, which shouldn't happen to that extent with the USB dropout problem. You will lose position with that but only by the minuscule distance it takes the machine to physically stop from whatever speed it was going, because mach3 will still think it was in exactly the same spot it was in the moment the connection dropped.

For future reference I have found that restarting mid code in mach3 can be a crap shoot and it's far more reliable to just make a new code file starting at some point not too far behind where you left off (appreciate this might not be so easy with one of those 3D wood carvings) and also jogging the machine at any time during a file will make it lose its place and it will restart relative to the position it's in when you press start. So if it paused/stopped and you jogged it over to that side a bit before continuing the file, that would explain why it went so far over there. I'm not entirely sure why this happens because in my mind it shouldn't. Maybe the restart 'safe z, start spindle, move to coordinates' thing uses relative positioning. Not sure, never looked in to it, just accepted it is what it is and remembered never to move it under these circumstances



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[Sterob]

I have an old XP?? computer that I will try. I will do the grounding fix first though and see if that works. If not then will try a proper computer.
Many thanks..

Yeah, That will be fine. As long as its at least 1 Ghz and 3Gig of RAM. ( XP will only recognise up to 3 Gig)
If you have a PS2 mouse and keyboard, you could try them as well.

Until you find the problem you won't what the problem was.....Its a pain..we have all been there...

[Mmpie]

Nick, that is almost certainly the USB connection dropping then. Numerous potential causes I think but my problems were down to interference. When this happens the safest and most reliable method to restart is by creating a new g-code file that starts as close the the point it was at as you can get it.

I had too many unexpected results trying to restart from a line in the code, not sure why I never really looked in to it but my codes were all short and simple 2d jobs and easy to redo, unlike those 3D carvings, so it made sense for me to do that.


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[NickB00]

Thanks everyone for your advice! I have re-run the job with and without the extra USB hub as described previously and both times the job finished and did not just suddenly stop.
As it was working (without the USB HUB) I heard a grunting type noise coming from the machine for about 5 to 10 secs and sure enough, the x axis had skipped over about 6mm ruining the job but it did finish.
Then I ran it with the USB and grunt grunt grunt it skipped a beat again! At this point in time I had no idea where this noise was coming from but I knew that it had moved.
Whilst I was scratching my head, a screen popped up on the computer, your AVG Virus program has been updated! Aha! I clicked on it and it opened but the picture was fuzzy?
I looked at Mach3 screen as well, it too was fuzzy but not as much. Aha! Hmmmm.... maybe I should disconnect this laptop from the internet and uninstall AVG, which I did, as these 2 things are not needed to run my
cnc machine, and they were taking valuable processing resources away from the G-Code possibly causing it to skip a beat when it was uploading or something?
I re-ran the job and guess what, no grunting sounds... only hassle this time is my 3mm endmill came loose and ruined the job! Dont know why this is happening, I am sure I tightened it good!

I am going to ground the machine as the fuzzy screens probably indicate interference.
Maybe also shield or replace the USB cable with a more capable one.

So maybe I have found the culprit?
Only one way to find out..
cheers..

[Mmpie]

Are you getting this noise, whilst nothing really moves?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pKfv-rVvAAk


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[NickB00]

No nothing like that. That is a strange sound like its trying to move but getting stuck, maybe the motor or the couplers are slipping?
Mine was a distinct grunt grunt sound whilst it was working.

Are you getting this noise, whilst nothing really moves?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pKfv-rVvAAk


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[dharmic]

Anti-virus? Auto-update? Two new clues!

PCs aren't great for real-time stuff at the best of times, but when you load them up they are horrible. Whatever you use to drive your CNC needs to be a pretty much dedicated box with nothing other than Mach3 (or whatever you'll use) running. Antivirus software really hurts the predictability and stability of a computer's performance and, when timing is all, it can do the kind of nastiness you're talking about. You get a slow point where Mach3 thinks it's sent the right signals down the USB but they're stalled in a buffer. Computer frees up, buffer gets dumped down the USB and your poor CNC is now trying to drive axes as fast as the USB will go - no wonder it's getting in a jam.

Of course, with no antivirus on a windows machine you'd be mad to have it internet connected. Or sitting on a network that's internet connected unless you're *real* savvy about firewall configs etc.

My next step would be to unplug that computer from the LAN or disable the WiFi, whichever you have going on. Take a copy of your mach3 directory onto a USB drive, format the hard disk, reinstall Windows and Mach3, restore any missing files (eg the USB driver) from the usb drive and start again. If you can't do that, disconnect it from your network and uninstall AVG at least.

FWIW my CNC driving laptop sits on the machine with nowt else installed, no network enabled either. I use a thumb drive and my sneaker-net to get g-code files onto it. Can be a little inconvenient but, IMO, well worth it for the removal of these kind of hassles.

[Sterob]

Nick, How much RAM have you got in the Laptop?

[Sterob]

Are you getting this noise, whilst nothing really moves?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pKfv-rVvAAk


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Nice Demo Mmpie....:cheers:

[NickB00]

HI dharmic
I agree with all of that! Keep the PC dedicated to the CNC and remove the unwanted un-needed stuff, they just slow it down!
Now that I have removed AVG and Wifi, I will give it a few more goes to see if all is ok before I format the HDD etc..

Now to a further pending problem, why are my bits coming loose in the collets? I put them in pretty tight!

cheers..

Anti-virus? Auto-update? Two new clues!

PCs aren't great for real-time stuff at the best of times, but when you load them up they are horrible. Whatever you use to drive your CNC needs to be a pretty much dedicated box with nothing other than Mach3 (or whatever you'll use) running. Antivirus software really hurts the predictability and stability of a computer's performance and, when timing is all, it can do the kind of nastiness you're talking about. You get a slow point where Mach3 thinks it's sent the right signals down the USB but they're stalled in a buffer. Computer frees up, buffer gets dumped down the USB and your poor CNC is now trying to drive axes as fast as the USB will go - no wonder it's getting in a jam.

Of course, with no antivirus on a windows machine you'd be mad to have it internet connected. Or sitting on a network that's internet connected unless you're *real* savvy about firewall configs etc.

My next step would be to unplug that computer from the LAN or disable the WiFi, whichever you have going on. Take a copy of your mach3 directory onto a USB drive, format the hard disk, reinstall Windows and Mach3, restore any missing files (eg the USB driver) from the usb drive and start again. If you can't do that, disconnect it from your network and uninstall AVG at least.

FWIW my CNC driving laptop sits on the machine with nowt else installed, no network enabled either. I use a thumb drive and my sneaker-net to get g-code files onto it. Can be a little inconvenient but, IMO, well worth it for the removal of these kind of hassles.

[NickB00]

Not sure, cant remember, who am I, oh no...another senior moment!

Nick, How much RAM have you got in the Laptop?

[Mmpie]

You really have to crank down on those collet nuts, a lot harder than you might think. It's difficult doing it on those spindles.

But probably not the problem, I doubt you are loading it up enough for that. Have you been clearing up all packaging oil off cutters and collets? They are usually always coated in cosmolene for rust prevention, which also lubricates them. Hit them with a degreaser first. Also make sure there's nothing stuck in the grooves and the spindle taper is clean.


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