[RCaffin]

This one doesn't have a fuse though, but it does have a built in EMI filter which has tidied up the wiring a little. Maybe I should swap it back?
I would prefer to have both the fuse AND the EMI filter. Having a good filter right at the main input means spikes from other motors (eg compressors) don't make nearly as many problems. Worth the expense imho.

I put spike suppression capacitors across the compressor switch, a very solid mains filter at the input to the PC/CNC rig, and the compressor on a different phase from the CNC. The compressor cycles all day when I am machining and causes zero problems - now.

Cheers
Roger

[Udo_Baumgart]

Hi,
ModBus ist a good choice for controlling a vfd. I did this for my Nowforever E100 and put a description on my web page:

ubit-rc.de

Should be easily adoptable for other vfd's.

Ciao, Udo

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[Mmpie]

Dharmic - that couldn't have made less sense to me if it was written in Chinese ... lol

Roger - I wondered about that. The manufacturer put an EMI filter in but it was after separating the motor PSU and VFD power feeds at the e-stop and thought there must be a reason why? The fuse was only 1.5a and there is one in the plug, is it necessary? There's one in the wall plug if the inverter tries to pull more than it should. And tying in to:

Udo - modbus might be a good choice if you're on an intellectual level with Albert Einstein. I've just wasted a day of my life which I will never get back. I just cannot make sense out of the registry addresses and functions and commands and turning them into a useful format that Mach3 can use.

If I can get modbus to work I can use it to trigger the estop if the VFD tries to pull too much current, although strictly speaking shouldn't the VFD be limiting the current to whatever I set the limit to anyway?

Edit: in fact if anyone knows anything about ModBus and fancies tickling their brain a bit, I started a thread on it

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sha...0&share_type=t


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[extent]

If the drive faults due to overcurrent it's probably because it's stalled and not spinning anyway, makes good sense to estop the machine any time there's a drive fault.

[RCaffin]

Why they put the EMI filter where they did - I would not have a clue. Sorry.
You should have at least one fuse in the power to the machine. Having two makes little difference. Note: we don't fuse our power cables here in Oz, but I believe some other countries do. Six of one, ...

Modbus: I don't use it. I find an ESS has quite enough pins. I think it is now a slightly obsolete idea - unless you are running an industrial control system with 100 inputs.

eStop: my own biased opinion is that all fault signals should be handled by external hardware, NOT by Mach. That external HW can then tell Mach that the system has stopped. But setting that up requires some electronics.

Cheers
Roger

[Udo_Baumgart]

The main advantage of using modbus is that the communication is bidirectional. You can control the spindle AND e.g. get output frequence, current, voltage, inverter temperature and error conditions and show them in mach3.

I spend a couple of days googling through the net until i started understanding how ModBus works with Mach3. It is complicated but manageable. I tried to explain everything on my website with a little more detail then i have found in other places in the web.

Currently my Mach3 shows the output frequency of the inverter, output current and vdf temperature on the Mach3 screen. And of course Mach3 controls spindle rpm and direction. After understanding how this works it took me less than an hour to set it up.

Analogue output 0-10V or PWM have a problem: There is no real linear dependency between voltage and rpm. If you have a 24000 rpm spindle and set output to 5 V this does not mean that the spindle turns with 12000 rpm. With ModBus i can be sure that if i send 200 Hz the output frequency really is set to 200 Hz.

Ciao, Udo

[Mmpie]

Udo, reading your guide has started clearing it up more for me. It also helps that the nowforever modbus functions and registers are very similar to the ones in my Yaskawa.

I think if you add a few little pointers to binary, hex and decimal code, how to tell them apart and how to reach the correct format for Mach3 and I think you have a complete and easy to follow guide for any uninitiated to understand what they need and apply it to any VFD.

Thanks for taking the time to write that up.


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[chucka103]

Hi guys
I think I've asked this before .. not sure. Has anyone upgraded to a BT30 spindle?
If so any recommendations?
Cheers


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[dharmic]

Gods, no.

The gantry and steppers struggle with the weight and minimal torque of the cheap****e spindles they come with. Chuck something like a BT30 spindle on there and you'll be moving 50 inches an hour​ to avoid steps and, as soon as the spindle hogs in, it'll kick sideways half a millimetre as the gantry wobbles.

[chucka103]

I'm sure I saw some with one with one ...
Sounds like I better do some weight calculations first hey...




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[dharmic]

Not just weight but torque. And without knowing the exact profile and material they're using, it's going to be bloody hard to work out what the deflections are going to be.

[extent]

not a chance, BT30 spindle cartridge alone, without a motor, probably weighs twice what the entire gantry does, and that's before you scale the mounts up to fit the thing. And then by the time you get it all together you still haven't done anything to improve the stiffness to be able to use any cutter larger than you could get into an er11 in the first place.

[Mmpie]

Not to mention a bt30 spindle costs more than the machine!


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[chucka103]

I trawled through the earlier post and saw that "extent" put a BT30 spindle on an X6 but only an 800w one.
I know you already know this but I thought I'd would have a look best I could find at 2-3kw was 100mmdiax430L at 15kg ... oh well il shelve that idea.



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[extent]

not BT30, not even close. I've got an ISO10 toolchange spindle. It's only barely bigger than a regular 800w spindle, which is really only big enough to hold ER11 toolholders at most. There are also toolchange heads that you can get to go on the front of a regular 80mm spindle, so you could possibly get a 2.2kw spindle on one, but they're still only going to be like ISO10 or SK15

I'm kicking around the idea of a BT30 spindle, but it'll go on a steel framed scratch build, it's really just a completely different class.

[Mmpie]

not BT30, not even close. I've got an ISO10 toolchange spindle. It's only barely bigger than a regular 800w spindle, which is really only big enough to hold ER11 toolholders at most. There are also toolchange heads that you can get to go on the front of a regular 80mm spindle, so you could possibly get a 2.2kw spindle on one, but they're still only going to be like ISO10 or SK15

I'm kicking around the idea of a BT30 spindle, but it'll go on a steel framed scratch build, it's really just a completely different class.

Interesting. Not seen these toolchange heads, seen a lot of debate on various about turning a 80mm/2.2kw into an ATC but always the conclusion it would cost more and be more difficult than it's worth.

Didn't know they went as small as ISO10. My router is also going steel frame at some point, will something as small as a 10 taper run out of rigidity once it's on tougher framework?


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[extent]

I'm not sure how the rigidity would be, most spindle load I rough under has been about 30% I'm pretty sure that the guy that designed my spindle is related to some other company that looked like it was doing like larger cabinet making or something like that. Not cutting metal but I can't imagine them putting in the development and dropping it on a big gantry router to just peter around not using the full power of the spindle.

The Mechatronics ATC head had a bit more technical data available on it

[jo_ky]

Phew, I made it through the whole thread! Lots of great info, here; thank you, to all who have been posting.

I just got an X6-2200L as my first CNC machine. When I was ordering, I asked OMIO if I could get it with a 1.5 kW spindle, because I thought I wanted air-cooled (knowing a bit more, now, I'd probably opt to eliminate that source of noise). They said that it fits in the mount, but tooling won't reach the table.

Then, after I ordered, I wondered if I made a mistake in getting the 110V spindle and VFD. My shop doesn't have 220V power, but it does have two 110V outlets on opposite legs, so I could make an adapter. The 110V is a 20A breaker, but that equates to 2400 W, max. How could it be enough for a 2.2 kW spindle, given conversion efficiency, wiring, etc.?, was my reasoning. OMIO assured me that it's not the case. I'm guessing the 2.2 kW rating on the spindle is, at best, based on inrush current rather than nominal, or, just overstated.

Anyway, I'm not sure if any of that is relevant to the problem I have. More for: if there's any thoughts people have on all that.

After assembling my unit, the motion control seems to be working well. I've yet to really thoroughly check things.

The spindle, on the other hand, it just makes a nasty sound and doesn't turn. With my machine's frame grounded to the outlet, as prescribed in the installation instructions, I instead get "E002" on the VFD. By the way, should I be grounding to the inside of the controller box, somewhere, instead?

OMIO had me test the resistance between pins 1 through 3 on the spindle, and I got about half an ohm. Same for the spindle cable, on all 3 conductors. I emailed them those results and haven't heard back yet. They *could* have ignored my first post-sales email, so I'm hopeful, still.

[dharmic]

Given it's running off a VFD which is just going to rectify and smooth off the AC off any legs coming into it before generating the motor power, I doubt it'll make much difference either way between using 110 and 220.

Pretty much guarantee that the 2.2kW rating is like the PMPO rating on loudspeakers, ie the power being sunk as the thing melts itself into a lump of slag at failure point. And with soft start etc on the VFD the inrush should be fairly tame.

We're on 240V single or 440V three phase here so I just rock single phase and have never seen it try and pull more than about 5A - even as it's stalling. Equate that to 10A for your single phase, meh, just plug it into single phase and see how you go.

If you want to play it safe, perhaps pop the case open and confirm for yourself that the fuse in the controller is on the VFD mains input too, then set that fuse to whatever you're comfortable drawing from the circuit. That way if it goes it's not going to take your fridge and PC out with it

[jo_ky]

You know, I read that the 220V VFDs are the same as the 110V ones, but with a voltage doubler on the input. However, my spindle is actually stamped with "110V" on it, so I guess they don't do it that way anymore. Anyway, you're no doubt correct, that I'll be fine, on a 20 amp circuit, at least. I have an AC power meter, so I'll put it on there and see what it draws.

Any opinion on whether it's my VFD or the spindle at fault? I could take my oscilloscope over there, and look at the output of the VFD, unloaded, if that would help. I'm keen to see if OMIOCNC will offer any actual support for their product. That said, I also want to do whatever I can to get it working! Could my problem be related to the spindle grounding issue that has been a subject of discussion in this thread?

ps: when I say 220V I mean 240V, because that's what it actually reads on the voltmeter. I guess that, here in the US, the nominal voltage is 117 volts, but I've heard 110, 115, 120. When it comes to 3 phase power, as I understand it, things get even more confusing!