[hybridmojo]

Just wanted to let others know that I installed the PCI-e PathPilot upgrade in an old mid 2007 Inspiron 530s I had sitting around (Intel Core2duo, 512mb ram, 250g HD) and it worked just fine. I have NOT milled anything since (just did it last night) but will update this thread with the results.

Although the instructions are to upgrade your existing controller, I did not want to chance hosing my working setup (which I need to do my work!), so I just grabbed this old PC. I still have the HP dual core machine (of about the same 2007 vintage) with XP and Mach 3 that I was using before and can just swap between the two until I'm confidently fully transitioned.

Setup was easy. Just popped in the CD, pressed F12 at boot to boot from the CD. It asked me some stuff and flashed an image to the hard drive. Afterwards I had to select the Series 3 1100 from the list of machines. The interface card's firmware was updated.

Two hiccups:
1) the machine no longer turns off without pressing the physical power button. Also, the Tormach screen that comes up and asks you to reboot the machine is white text on a mostly white background, so it's impossible to read the prompt, also it says something about shutting down.
2) the card is made for a full size PCI-e slot, although it's physical size is small enough for the Inspiron's half height computer case. The L shaped bracket that secures the card to the case does not fit with a slim form factor desktop machine. I used one of the blanks that came with the Inspiron case and dremeled a hole for the 25 pin port and drilled holes for the cable screws. I had to use an entire cut off wheel though

Hardest part was that I had to wait quite a while for the part to be in stock @ Tormach -- it's probably easier to buy crack around here than the PathPilot PCI-e upgrade...

[tmarks11]

1) the machine no longer turns off without pressing the physical power button. Also, the Tormach screen that comes up and asks you to reboot the machine is white text on a mostly white background, so it's impossible to read the prompt, also it says something about shutting down.

I have the same problem with my Tormach Controller, so it is not a fault of the machine you loaded it on.

[PCW_MESA]

2) the card is made for a full size PCI-e slot, although it's physical size is small enough for the Inspiron's half height computer case. The L shaped bracket that secures the card to the case does not fit with a slim form factor desktop machine. I used one of the blanks that came with the Inspiron case and dremeled a hole for the 25 pin port and drilled holes for the cable screws. I had to use an entire cut off wheel though

We have the low profile 5I25/6I25 brackets available...

[mountaindew]

We have the low profile 5I25/6I25 brackets available...

hehe I enjoyed his mod story!
Was thinking I have boxes of long and short brackets, cables, cards,cpus..............you name it.

[Spinnetti]

I have the same problem with my Tormach Controller, so it is not a fault of the machine you loaded it on.

Ditto..

[popspipes]

I have the same problem with my Tormach Controller, so it is not a fault of the machine you loaded it on.

I have the tormach controller and it turns off with the software exit button, maybe something in the Bios?

Edit: The controller has to be turned off by the switch on the front panel of the mahine, not the power button on the controller itself. I think I misread the question.......

[wtopace]

I believe the soft shutdown was disabled on purpose by Tormach so that power can be disrupted by the physical on/off switch. This allows the ACPI module in the BIOS to detect a "power fault" and allows the machine to be configured to automatically power on when power is restored. This keeps you from ever having to go into the cabinet below in order to power on your controller computer.

Shutdown from PathPIlot, then when you get to the (very poor contrasting) power-off screen, flip the Comptuer on/off switch on the Tormach physical panel to off. When ready to power up, flip the physical switch on the Tormach control panel to on. Works great for me =)

Of course, I can't speak to the official TMC's BIOS configuration, as I am running a whitebox control computer put together from spare parts I had collecting dust. YMMV

[FuriousGeorge]

I've just switched to PathPilot as well. The interface is much nicer and the soft limits are a GODSEND. I haven't played with it enough to find any PIAs, but I'm sure some will eventually show up.

[hybridmojo]

I've just switched to PathPilot as well. The interface is much nicer and the soft limits are a GODSEND. I haven't played with it enough to find any PIAs, but I'm sure some will eventually show up.

I spent half of last Friday trying to machine my first part and was unsuccesful. I was hoping the conversational bit would help a lot, but I found in this case it didn't (front panel for a guitar amp!).

The first time I used the machine, it kept complaining that I had to reference the axes. I did, but it kept complaining anyway.

After a reboot, the reference worked.

Then I found that the Tormach jog shuttle does not work (it did with Mach3). After some time with Tormach tech support, we couldn't resolve it and I used the keyboard instead for now. It was Friday afternoon so they went home.

I have to admit I didn't understand the referencing and zeroing until I read the manual. This is one of those things where you ought to read the manual. Normally I shove manuals in the back of a cabinet and just plow ahead. I'm not a "real" machinist so I just load a tool and touch off to my work zero and call it a day. The conversational pocket UI has a work zero DRO (text box input to the rest of the world) which I didn't get until I realized the software can save many work zeros and the box needs to have the ID of whichever zero you want to use typed in (how about a drop down?). Would be nice if it could just use the current coordinates too. I think it's faster for me to switch end mills since I'm only drilling three different size holes here.

I have three pockets that needs to be actually cut out, but since this is a decorative piece and accuracy doesn't matter, I would normally have used the jog controller and just eye balled it (like I said, Im not a real machinist!). With the keyboard controls I found it too difficult.

So I might swap back to the Mach 3 computer for this project, but assuming we can get the jog controller working, I'm generally happy with PathPilot and look forward to it improving...

[hybridmojo]

I believe the soft shutdown was disabled on purpose by Tormach so that power can be disrupted by the physical on/off switch. This allows the ACPI module in the BIOS to detect a "power fault" and allows the machine to be configured to automatically power on when power is restored. This keeps you from ever having to go into the cabinet below in order to power on your controller computer.

Shutdown from PathPIlot, then when you get to the (very poor contrasting) power-off screen, flip the Comptuer on/off switch on the Tormach physical panel to off. When ready to power up, flip the physical switch on the Tormach control panel to on. Works great for me =)

Of course, I can't speak to the official TMC's BIOS configuration, as I am running a whitebox control computer put together from spare parts I had collecting dust. YMMV

Yup, you are right. After I read the manual I figured this out.

[Gerry Sweetland]

I spent half of last Friday trying to machine my first part and was unsuccesful. I was hoping the conversational bit would help a lot, but I found in this case it didn't (front panel for a guitar amp!).

The first time I used the machine, it kept complaining that I had to reference the axes. I did, but it kept complaining anyway.

After a reboot, the reference worked.

Then I found that the Tormach jog shuttle does not work (it did with Mach3). After some time with Tormach tech support, we couldn't resolve it and I used the keyboard instead for now. It was Friday afternoon so they went home.

I have to admit I didn't understand the referencing and zeroing until I read the manual. This is one of those things where you ought to read the manual. Normally I shove manuals in the back of a cabinet and just plow ahead. I'm not a "real" machinist so I just load a tool and touch off to my work zero and call it a day. The conversational pocket UI has a work zero DRO (text box input to the rest of the world) which I didn't get until I realized the software can save many work zeros and the box needs to have the ID of whichever zero you want to use typed in (how about a drop down?). Would be nice if it could just use the current coordinates too. I think it's faster for me to switch end mills since I'm only drilling three different size holes here.

I have three pockets that needs to be actually cut out, but since this is a decorative piece and accuracy doesn't matter, I would normally have used the jog controller and just eye balled it (like I said, Im not a real machinist!). With the keyboard controls I found it too difficult.

So I might swap back to the Mach 3 computer for this project, but assuming we can get the jog controller working, I'm generally happy with PathPilot and look forward to it improving...

What jog shuttle do you have?
Thanks,
Gerry

[wtopace]

I spent half of last Friday trying to machine my first part and was unsuccesful. I was hoping the conversational bit would help a lot, but I found in this case it didn't (front panel for a guitar amp!).

The first time I used the machine, it kept complaining that I had to reference the axes. I did, but it kept complaining anyway.

After a reboot, the reference worked.

Then I found that the Tormach jog shuttle does not work (it did with Mach3). After some time with Tormach tech support, we couldn't resolve it and I used the keyboard instead for now. It was Friday afternoon so they went home.

I have to admit I didn't understand the referencing and zeroing until I read the manual. This is one of those things where you ought to read the manual. Normally I shove manuals in the back of a cabinet and just plow ahead. I'm not a "real" machinist so I just load a tool and touch off to my work zero and call it a day. The conversational pocket UI has a work zero DRO (text box input to the rest of the world) which I didn't get until I realized the software can save many work zeros and the box needs to have the ID of whichever zero you want to use typed in (how about a drop down?). Would be nice if it could just use the current coordinates too. I think it's faster for me to switch end mills since I'm only drilling three different size holes here.

I have three pockets that needs to be actually cut out, but since this is a decorative piece and accuracy doesn't matter, I would normally have used the jog controller and just eye balled it (like I said, Im not a real machinist!). With the keyboard controls I found it too difficult.

So I might swap back to the Mach 3 computer for this project, but assuming we can get the jog controller working, I'm generally happy with PathPilot and look forward to it improving...

A few tips:

1) Make sure you use work coordinate offsets (G54, G55, G56, etc...) and the tool table. Don't overthink the tool table, measure your TTS tools all in the same way (including your indicators) and plug them into the table, you're good to go. Touching off every tool to every part on every operation WILL result in broken tools eventually (not to mention you'll lose quite a bit of accuracy retouching off each time and watching for tool marks).

2) For your jog shuttle issue, try a different USB extension cord or remove the USB extension cord all together and see if that solves the problem. USB ports only provide so much power (100 mW max I believe) and extension cords degrade the signal further. If this doesn't work, try plugging the jog shuttle directly into a usb port on the motherboard (back on your computer) with no extension cord. If this doesn't work - request a warranty replacement jog shuttle from Tormach =) You'll learn that Tormach's warranty is amazing.

3) Enjoy your machine, they are a lot of fun once you get past the initial hurdles of understanding the how and why of the basic operations.

[hybridmojo]

A few tips:

1) Make sure you use work coordinate offsets (G54, G55, G56, etc...) and the tool table. Don't overthink the tool table, measure your TTS tools all in the same way (including your indicators) and plug them into the table, you're good to go. Touching off every tool to every part on every operation WILL result in broken tools eventually (not to mention you'll lose quite a bit of accuracy retouching off each time and watching for tool marks).

2) For your jog shuttle issue, try a different USB extension cord or remove the USB extension cord all together and see if that solves the problem. USB ports only provide so much power (100 mW max I believe) and extension cords degrade the signal further. If this doesn't work, try plugging the jog shuttle directly into a usb port on the motherboard (back on your computer) with no extension cord. If this doesn't work - request a warranty replacement jog shuttle from Tormach =) You'll learn that Tormach's warranty is amazing.

3) Enjoy your machine, they are a lot of fun once you get past the initial hurdles of understanding the how and why of the basic operations.

I have whatever Jog shuttle Tormach had listed in their store in November of last year.

I pulled the Mach3 machine back up from the basement to try it out and make sure its still working ~ will give it a go later today. I'm not using an extension of any kind and I've tried every USB port. The USB mouse and keyboard work fine in any USB port.

Regarding the touch off, I'm not using TTS. Just R8 collets. So I have to re-do the Z's zero for every tool change anyway. The parts I'm milling for my business can usually be made with two end mills, one for rough cuts and one for the fine machining. The tolerances aren't that critical, and it's all plastic so it flexes a bit anyway.

[dammachines]

Then I found that the Tormach jog shuttle does not work (it did with Mach3). After some time with Tormach tech support, we couldn't resolve it and I used the keyboard instead for now. It was Friday afternoon so they went home.

So Tormach tech support was helping you troubleshoot a problem you're having with PathPilot that you installed on a non-Tormach PC? I wouldn't have expected that anymore. I thought the latest policy was that they were only supporting the Tormach Controller?

[prototype3a]

Just wanted to let others know that I installed the PCI-e PathPilot upgrade in an old mid 2007 Inspiron 530s I had sitting around (Intel Core2duo, 512mb ram, 250g HD) and it worked just fine. I have NOT milled anything since (just did it last night) but will update this thread with the results.
.

That's interesting. My Tormach supplied computer died many years ago and they sold me the PathPilot upgrade without ever mentioning that it required that old computer. We've been using a Dell we had laying around to run the ancient Tormach customized version of Mach3.

I've been thinking about trying to install PathPilot on a laptop but I realized today that would be silly since I couldn't install the pci-e FPGA card. I may have to swap the hard drive in the Dell and try installing PathPilot. On the other hand, I just found an Inspiron 530s on Ebay for ~$100.

I've actually been a bit annoyed that I haven't been able to get any support from them at all since buying the upgrade.

[tmarks11]

That's interesting. My Tormach supplied computer died many years ago and they sold me the PathPilot upgrade without ever mentioning that it required that old computer.

So the sales page you bought it from on the Tormach site states "Upgrade your current Tormach Machine Controller to a Tormach PathPilot Controller." and "These PathPilot Upgrade Kits are for PCNC 1100 owners using Tormach Machine Controllers with PCI or PCIe expansion card slots." and a table with Controller serial numbers to identify which kit you should buy. This all clearly indicates you are buying an upgrade for the Tormach controller, not any random computer.

That being said, you should be able to get it work on most old or current generation pc boxes, as hybridmojo found out. Nothing magical about the "Tormach controller".

[hybridmojo]

Turns out the x y and z axis buttons don't work so well. I knew that, but thought it was mach3. With mach3, the software started up in x axis jog, with PathPilot, it starts with no axis selected and I have to select one before it will jog.

[prototype3a]

I looked inside my computer, saw it had pci-e slots and ordered the pci-e version. I also did not want to be forced to dig up some REALLY old computer with pci slots should our Dell die.

I feel I was pretty clear in my first post that the salesman at Tormach never mentioned anything about the computer or 'tormach controller' requirements. When I received the card and software and saw the first page of the install manual said that it required the original 'tormach controller' and that was when the alarms went off and I called Tormach again.

Either way, during the second call, they didn't think it would work with our Dell. Tonight, I found a spare hard drive that I intend to load win7 on and then try installing PathPilot and see how that goes. I plan to either make it work or send it back. My only concern is that it is a customized Ubuntu kernel that it runs on and it may not have the drivers required to make my Dell work.

Having run Haas and Flashcut machines in the past, thus far I'm not super impressed with Tormach but I do think they have a decent product at a reasonable price where on the other hand, I think Haas is overpriced and not a robust control or machine.

[prototype3a]

Well, I tried it and it is working on our Dell just fine. So far, there are some things about PathPilot that I really like over Mach3 and some things that I really miss. Since I put PathPilot on a new drive, I can switch back and forth as much as I want.

[tmarks11]

[QUOTE=prototype3a;1749940Either way, during the second call, they didn't think it would work with our Dell. [/QUOTE]
In the past, Tormach has clearly said they will not provide tech support for installation of PP on a non-Tormach controller. They could probably make things clearer on their sales page.

Essentially, PP is a loss-leader for Tormach. $10 for the disc isn't really profit, and the mesa card is being sold essentially at their cost (cheaper than you could buy it from Mesa for, of course Tormach is getting a quantity break). Offering tech support puts them underwater on this transaction pretty quick.

Good to hear that you got it working.