[palom0]

Hi,
I m wondering if your VFD Drive inverter for 2.2KW (3HP) is able to handle a 1,500W household washing machine. I would like to use it to convert 50Hz to 60Hz in my country.

Item description is here:
Amazon.com: CNCShop VFD Drive VFD Inverter VFD Drive 2.2KW 3HP for Spindle Motor Speed Control (2.2kw VFD): Home Improvement

Thanks.
Jose

[Al_The_Man]

If your aim is to run 1ph output at 60Hz you may be out of luck most do not take to 1ph phase load.
Al.

[palom0]

If your aim is to run 1ph output at 60Hz you may be out of luck most do not take to 1ph phase load.
Al.

Can you explain? Apparently this unit takes a 1-phase 50Hz input and can output 3-phase 60Hz. Do you mean that if I just use one of the 3 output phases, it won't work? Any options?

[mactec54]

Hi,
I m wondering if your VFD Drive inverter for 2.2KW (3HP) is able to handle a 1,500W household washing machine. I would like to use it to convert 50Hz to 60Hz in my country.

Item description is here:
Amazon.com: CNCShop VFD Drive VFD Inverter VFD Drive 2.2KW 3HP for Spindle Motor Speed Control (2.2kw VFD): Home Improvement

Thanks.
Jose

The 50Hz washing machine will work fine,on 60Hz,you can not run your washing machine with a VFD, the VFD will only run a 3 phase motor, your washing machine will only be single phase

[mactec54]

palom0

You may also be able to find a 230v ac single phase variac variable transformer, ( sometimes on Ebay for a good price ) with this you could then lower your input voltage, by 20% then everything would run at it's normal speed

or use a transformer that can lower the input voltage by 20%

[Al_The_Man]

Check to see what type of motor is used on your machine, many of the latest M/C's use a Fischer-Paykel style 3ph outrunner motor, if this is so it runs off of internal BLDC 3phase drive.
If it does, the machine will be relatively immune to frequency as just about everything is converted to DC internally.
Direct Drive Motor - Fisher & Paykel Direct Drive Motors, Pancake Motors, DD Motors | Fisher & Paykel
Al.

[mactec54]

Al_The_Man

Yes I don't think there will be any problem with the main motor, just the timers & pump, the pump is what fails the most

[Al_The_Man]

Although the latest machines are mainly electronic, the old synchronous motor timers have been replaced.
Al.

[mactec54]

Although the latest machines are mainly electronic, the old synchronous motor timers have been replaced.
Al.

In general yes synchronous motor timers were replaced years ago, but they are still available in low cost models

If the power supply is not rated for 50 Hz/60 Hz for the electronic part which is the timers & programed fuzzy logic this will fail, there are many parts that need to have correct frequency supplied, or close to it, solenoid valves, pressure switch, motor control module, power filter, water pump, are just a few of the electrical parts

We don't know what machine he has or where it was manufactured, it seems to be a trend that people are importing washing machines Etc, from other countries, but are manufactured for use in that country only, in most cases they last a year sometimes 2, running them on 230v 60 Hz, a lot have been bringing them from Germany, which is 50Hz

[palom0]

In general yes synchronous motor timers were replaced years ago, but they are still available in low cost models

If the power supply is not rated for 50 Hz/60 Hz for the electronic part which is the timers & programed fuzzy logic this will fail, there are many parts that need to have correct frequency supplied, or close to it, solenoid valves, pressure switch, motor control module, power filter, water pump, are just a few of the electrical parts

We don't know what machine he has or where it was manufactured, it seems to be a trend that people are importing washing machines Etc, from other countries, but are manufactured for use in that country only, in most cases they last a year sometimes 2, running them on 230v 60 Hz, a lot have been bringing them from Germany, which is 50Hz

Yup, my issue is not the motor, which I believe will be OK, it is just that the control board happens to be confused by the 50/60Hz difference. I can lower 220v to 110v fine, but the 50Hz makes the control believe there is a communication issue between boards and gives me an error ("E91")
I tested it with a car inverter (outputs 110v 60Hz) and all the control panels turn on fine. I just can't run it, it's a 120W inverter and won't be able to handle any of the current-drawing motors or solenoids.

I bought the unit in the US and it was working fine, but I had to move overseas. The washers here are very poor quality and super small, hence why I want to make this one work. Can't believe they would use the line frequency for the control electronics. Nowadays is so easy to have an internal oscillator...

[mactec54]

palom0

So you are trying to go form 60Hz machine & want to run it on 50Hz, something like this might get you going http://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-...364443976.html

There is lots of information on this, most suggest, to contact the manufacture, to see if they have the 50Hz rated parts, then change out those parts, that will suit the voltage frequency you have, here is a little information of what is happening that may help also

IF it was the other way round, and you had a 50 Hz machine, and want to run it on 60 Hz this is a little easier to do

50HZ Appliance & 60HZ Power Supply and vice versa

A 50 HZ power supply is common used in Europe while a 60 HZ power supply is common used in USA, Typically most of the electrical loads have a frequency range they are compatible with and it is common to see that the range span is from 50 HZ to 60 Hz

What is the difference between 50 HZ and 60 HZ power transformer
Transformer which made for 60 HZ is smaller than transformer made for 50 HZ , but in some cases they are in the same size and in this case the 60 HZ version will use lower grade steel laminations which mean it will be cheaper than the other

Can we connect 60 HZ power transformer to 50 HZ power supply
If you make this the transformer will get much hotter than normal and easily reach to a dangerous temperature that will cause transformer failure, this is because the transformer primary number of turns is designed according to input voltage to input frequency ratio (V/F) so if the frequency is reduced then (V/F) ratio will increase and there will not be sufficient number of turns to prevent transformer from reaching core saturation, So transformer will draw much more current from the main's getting hotter leading to failure

Can we connect 50 HZ power transformer to 60 HZ power supply
Yes, you can and you will rarely have a problem as operating a 50 HZ transformer on 60 HZ power supply reduces the drawn current and hence the transformer will run a little cooler

?Can we connect 50HZ induction motor to 60HZ Power Supply or vice versa
If I connect a 60 HZ induction motor to a 50 HZ power supply, the motor will draw more current and run at lower speed and if I connect a 50 HZ induction motor to a 60 HZ power supply the motor will draw lower current and run at high speed and in the two cases the result is excessive heat
.buildup inside the motor that strongly shortened motor operating life

How can you safely operate a 60 Hz appliance at a 50 HZ power supply or vice versa
:You should follow the following steps

First: contact the appliance manufacturer as it may be possible to safely
.operate your appliance with the manufacturer approval

Second: some manufacturers sell the same appliance in 50 HZ and 60 HZ
.countries, so try to connect manufacturer as he may have a solution

Third: you can purchase 60 HZ sine wave power supply but this solution is generally very expensive and it will be more cost effective to replace

[palom0]

palom0

So you are trying to go form 60Hz machine & want to run it on 50Hz, something like this might get you going http://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-...364443976.html

There is lots of information on this, most suggest, to contact the manufacture, to see if they have the 50Hz rated parts, then change out those parts, that will suit the voltage frequency you have, here is a little information of what is happening that may help also

IF it was the other way round, and you had a 50 Hz machine, and want to run it on 60 Hz this is a little easier to do

50HZ Appliance & 60HZ Power Supply and vice versa

A 50 HZ power supply is common used in Europe while a 60 HZ power supply is common used in USA, Typically most of the electrical loads have a frequency range they are compatible with and it is common to see that the range span is from 50 HZ to 60 Hz

What is the difference between 50 HZ and 60 HZ power transformer
Transformer which made for 60 HZ is smaller than transformer made for 50 HZ , but in some cases they are in the same size and in this case the 60 HZ version will use lower grade steel laminations which mean it will be cheaper than the other

Can we connect 60 HZ power transformer to 50 HZ power supply
If you make this the transformer will get much hotter than normal and easily reach to a dangerous temperature that will cause transformer failure, this is because the transformer primary number of turns is designed according to input voltage to input frequency ratio (V/F) so if the frequency is reduced then (V/F) ratio will increase and there will not be sufficient number of turns to prevent transformer from reaching core saturation, So transformer will draw much more current from the main's getting hotter leading to failure

Can we connect 50 HZ power transformer to 60 HZ power supply
Yes, you can and you will rarely have a problem as operating a 50 HZ transformer on 60 HZ power supply reduces the drawn current and hence the transformer will run a little cooler

?Can we connect 50HZ induction motor to 60HZ Power Supply or vice versa
If I connect a 60 HZ induction motor to a 50 HZ power supply, the motor will draw more current and run at lower speed and if I connect a 50 HZ induction motor to a 60 HZ power supply the motor will draw lower current and run at high speed and in the two cases the result is excessive heat
.buildup inside the motor that strongly shortened motor operating life

How can you safely operate a 60 Hz appliance at a 50 HZ power supply or vice versa
:You should follow the following steps

First: contact the appliance manufacturer as it may be possible to safely
.operate your appliance with the manufacturer approval

Second: some manufacturers sell the same appliance in 50 HZ and 60 HZ
.countries, so try to connect manufacturer as he may have a solution

Third: you can purchase 60 HZ sine wave power supply but this solution is generally very expensive and it will be more cost effective to replace

Thanks for your detailed response.
The freq converter link you sent is for a similar unit as the Huanyang I sent in the first post. Problem is, both output 3 phase 60Hz and my Washer is 1 phase.

I have contacted the manufacturer as they make similar units for 50Hz, but, as expected, they won't support any modifications and they claim they don't have equivalent exchangeable parts that work with 50Hz. So that's a dead-end.
Regarding the motor het buildup and life span, I have seen them work on other units for years so I am not worried. Regarding the transformer, my unit is 50/60Hz compatible, so no issue there. The fridge and Dryer are hooked to other ones and have no issues. This is just a "communication" issue between the Washer Control Board and the User Interface Board, not a power issue. However, that simple issue is rendering the whole washer unusable.

As I said, local support for the brand (Kenmore, Sears, Electrolux) is nonexistent here and I'd prefer not having to replace it with a local brand as they are crap.
So, as I am a stubborn engineer, I am trying to find put a way around it. I've already done it with the Dryer, were I separated the control and main components to be fed 110v while feeding straight 220v to the heater element. I am sure there has to be away to make the washer work down here!!

Thanks to all for the support

[mactec54]

palom0

You could use a US power generator, a small unit like the link, add an electric motor to drive it, this is where you could use the VFD to drive a 3 ph electric motor, you will have to get the speed correct for the generator to have the right output to suit your machine, with the VFD you could do this, there are a few converters but they cost why to much

Northstar Belt Driven Generator Head 2900W 165915A | eBay