[tx_pilot]

Currently...
Custom laptop w/ i7 processor, 16GB Ram (HyperX Black), 1st HDD Samsung 500GB, 2nd HDD Samsung 500GB SSD, 3rd HDD 1TB Sata3, 4th HDD is optical drive caddy (no SSD installed), dedicated graphics card 2GB.

Machine now. Grizzly G0704 will be converting using Hoss's plans. Also Grizzly G0752 lathe (will like to convert it someday).

Software: nothing other than windows 7 pro (64bit) and Microsoft Word installed right now. Thinking about Mach 4, CorelDRAW graphics suite, looking at BobCad V28/Corel CAD/Turbocad Pro right now. - prob about to start with free trials one at a time and see which I like over the next several weeks... I have Autocad at work on my office computer that I play on every now and then (not my job, I just have it on my computer lol) I really don't want to "rent" the software by the month or yearly... I want to buy software to keep bc I don't see myself updating anything in the next several years.

That being said, I don't own my own airplane anymore... haha

Now back to BobCad... you are at a loss that someone has doubts about buying software that has some known problems and the potential buyer now knows that the only way that these issues will ever be addressed and fixed is by spending more money on a support plan in the future? - I call that common sense. Also before your edit, you stated that since I was "new" that BobCad would be more than I'd need for sometime... to justify me buying it anyways I guess? Experience really doesn't matter, I know tons who started out using autocad?!?! and many more who would if they could have.

I'm by no means going to completely not consider BobCAD right now but I will seriously look into other options now a little more actively.

[jrmach]

By all means,Demo BoB V28

I've used BoB for 7 years now,been a machinist ,,too long,,I run a 20 HP Haas,and I have most the manual machines a shop needs.

Don't take the experience personal,,but what ever you pick is going to take a big investment of your time.So is learning machining.

No software is perfect,,,If you bought now,their policy is 45 days free support.I am pretty sure the next update would be before then.They offer a 1 year support plan for $300.That could be a bargain if you need a lot of help from their techs.That would include free updates too.

What you read is not always what it sounds like.Bugs ???? There are some,hopefully will be addressed,,,BUT,,more times than not,it is the user not using the software correctly.That said,there is nothing stopping me from doing anything that my machine is capable of doing."Experience" is key.

[jrmach]

Experience really doesn't matter, I know tons who started out using autocad?!?!

You can use auto cad and import to BoB.
Experience in Machining and CAM is more what I was referring to.

[tx_pilot]

I will still be considering BobCAD and the 45 days free support would be great if that will allow the addition to the upcoming update to V28.

Now you state that their 1 year support plan is $300 and that includes free updates too... I disagree, those updates cost you between $0.01 and $300 depending on how you value the other few perks which comes with their support plan. Either way, they are surely not free in my eyes.

Now I do agree that all programs will have issues within and that many issues are at the fault of the operator (and that a big learning curve is needed in this field) but I think the true defining thing will be how the developer handles the issues with their customers. - I too agree with the others on here and feel that if a developer produces a program which has "bugs", those bugs should be addressed free of charge and any additions made to better the program which are needed to correct the issue(s) should be ate by the company... not the customer! It's at the fault of the company that an issue exists, not the customer. If I were a dishonest developer, I'd put in a few annoying bugs, offer a "fix" to the issues at a charge just to be able to squeeze a little more money outta everyone?? Not personally saying that's BobCAD's game plan or any other developer but stop charging your customers for issues which are not at the fault of their customers... be happy you have customers which report software issues and reward them by fixing the issues.

Surely charge extra for additions/plug-ins though...

The 45 day free support may include thus 1st update to V28 but most likely any other needed updates in the future... I'd have to buy a support plan to add those which puts us back at the start of the issue again... paying for their updates to correct issues no matter how big or small the "next" issue(s) will be?!?

[jrmach]

The support plan would make sense if you a fairly new and you are going to use the software a lot.When in business,having a tech address a problem or a difficult part hooked up computer to computer on a "HOT" job,,one time and it could pay for itself.
JSYK,,,,I do not like their update policy either,and have made that clear many times in the past.But the support could be valuable to some.

[tx_pilot]

Im pretty sure I could manage without their support seeing how Im not doing any of this for money... I'm sure this site could more than address any problems I would encounter and time would not really be an issue for me. Paying for support is not anywhere in my plan or "wants" at the moment.

Not saying that CorelCAD is great or not... it may be total crap, I personally do not know right now but it looks as though they got one thing right either way...

"CorelCAD – Latest Patches and Updates

*Keep your version of the product up to date by downloading the latest service packs listed below. *These service packs address the most common issues and should be installed if you are encountering technical issues before contacting support.

If you are not sure what product version or build number you are using, you can find out by following these*simple instructions.

CorelCAD*2015

Windows version:

CorelCAD 2015.5 Update - Windows (64-bit) Build 15.2.1.2037 (Released: 2015-05-21)
CorelCAD 2015.5 Update - Windows (32-bit) Build 15.2.1.2037 (Released: 2015-05-21)"

[The Engine Guy]

The 45 day free support may include thus 1st update to V28 but most likely any other needed updates in the future... I'd have to buy a support plan to add those which puts us back at the start of the issue again... paying for their updates to correct issues no matter how big or small the "next" issue(s) will be?!?

The not so good news is that V28 is only a few weeks old and as each version runs for about 14~18 months it is unlikely that an "update" Build will be just around the corner. Probably a few months at least ! !

The better news is that as "jrmach" posts you can easily look for a V26 for sale somewhere, I use V26 every day for mainly 3D Mold work and yes, there are some small things that need a fix but nothing that stops me from getting the job done. I don`t currently have a support package as I generally wait to buy a new version to get all the new stuff and all the "fixes" at the same time.
I have been using BC since V17, do you honestly think I would still be using it if it was as bad as you reckon ? ? ?

You mention Autocad, well fine, but that`s all it is, just CAD and you still have to find a CAM package somewhere and that will probably cost more than BC, everybody charges these days in some way or another.

Bugs are just bugs and are a small annoyance, nothing more, a simple workaround is usually all that`s needed.

To come on a Forum slating a software vendor and their product is just plain daft IMHO when you actually don`t have any experience of the product and the company, I would expect that if you did buy the product the attitude you have shown so far won`t get you much if any help on this or any other Forum

Again, CorelCAD is only CAD, no CAM so again you have to find a CAM software

Regards
Rob
:rainfro: :rainfro: :rainfro:

[MikeC8]

v27 only lasted about 10 months, and only had one update. I do not feel that the $300 I spent on support was worth it for only a single update. And I am still left with bugs that will never be fixed.

It would be nice to see bobcad focus on fixing bugs, and start releasing beta updates, fix the bugs, then give a final release. Currently it seems like every version of bobcad is still in beta.

[tx_pilot]

To come on a Forum slating a software vendor and their product is just plain daft IMHO when you actually don`t have any experience of the product and the company, I would expect that if you did buy the product the attitude you have shown so far won`t get you much if any help on this or any other Forum

Again, CorelCAD is only CAD, no CAM so again you have to find a CAM software

Regards
Rob
:rainfro: :rainfro: :rainfro:

I understand that other softwares are only cad... that's a mute point really.

I 1st came to this topic to research known issues with V28 as I am in the market to buy pretty soon. Asked if there was a better idea of when the V28 update would be out, how to go about getting the update and if the update could be had without the need of buying a support plan. I found the answer, stated my opinion...

I was stating that I agree with others within this topic that I feel like the vendor (any vendor at that, not just BOBCAD) should offer their updates which correct a problem at no charge to their customer. It's not the customer's fault that a problem no matter how big or small exists... however; it is the customer's responsibility to pay to have it fixxed. - I disagree with this way of doing business. I get that there are others I guess that are okay and fine with paying $300+ to get updates to your software, I guess that's where I differ from the others... and I have learned now that it would possibly be better to buy older versions, specifically V26 as it has been stated now more than once on here, of the software rather than V28.

I came to this forum to gather info... voiced my opinion as others did also... but I guess I have slated a vendor and shown attitude now to the point that if I continue any further in this topic that this forum and others as you stated won't be any help to me anymore... I didn't mean for my post to become personal to you or any other owners of the software.

I'll move on and not post within this topic any longer... have a good one.

[dialsc]

Hey all,

I'm waiting for an update my self. Having reported a couple of bugs - which has been confirmed - things like the spiral lead in which is not working is a problem for me and honestly I'm having a problem with the fact that I have to spend much more time in order to work around it then just see the software doing basic stuff right. But yes, software has bugs, that's normal.

Nevertheless I would like to to tell you how I think about the on going discussion about free vs. non-free fixes. I myself am working as a product manager in the software industry having - starting as a Software Engineer - almost 20 years of experience in that area. The area I'm working in is serving millions of customers so I tend to say that I have a good understanding about how to deal with software. Oh, writing this in a CNC forum... ? You need something to get your head free in your free time and for me it is e.g. working with my CNC machine...

As a software vendor and at the end of the day as a commercial company at all you will be successful only if your customers are happy with you. Sounds stupid but it is really just that simple. Now ask your self what makes your customers happy. I will tell you what I've seen since I'm using BobCAD, starting when V26 was released. I do not want to say it is exactly that way but I want to tell you what I see and what my opinion is:

• I was able to find and report I do not know how many bugs and most of the time I had the impression that I as a customer had to prove that something is a bug.
• I was waiting for bug fixes for I don't know how many months for V26 as well as V27
• Instead of providing bug fixes they provided minor releases including so called enhancements but a lot of bugs where just not fixed. Hey, doing it this way, you can get the $$$ out of the pocket of your customers, right...
• Quality. Honestly I often had the feeling that they have no understanding what Quality Assurance means and/or how it is being done with software. At least I have no idea why so many bugs can be introduced for stuff that has been working for I do not know how long if there would be a proper QA process
• Quality 2. I have never seen a software that crashes that often. I have also never seen a software that suffers so much and obvious from memory leaking. If it's better with V28 in terms of memory? I simply do not know. The bugs in the software prevent me from using it...

I could extend that list quite a bit. But instead of doing so, here's what I think makes your customers happy:

• Establish a proper QA and make sure that the software you are going to release works, at least you do not break working stuff in new releases
• Provide bug fix releases - BTW: We call them patches - as soon as you have fixed the bug. Bundle a couple of them and provide this patches every one to two months.
• Provide bug fixes at all!
• Do not bundle bug fixes with enhancements
• Make patches available to every customer who did pay for the software
• DO NOT tell your customers this behavior is normal in the industry. Just because others do it that way this is no reason for handling your customers like that.
• If your software crashes don't tell your customer the workflow is wrong. Implement a proper exception handling and tell the user that he is doing something wrong right from within the software.

Again, a list which could be extended. But I think you got the point...

Well, you might got it, I'm one of those guys being upset... Really, I am. I already had an email thread with BobCAD's COO but he was somehow learn resistant... But at least I think he did read my emails. So having that said I think it would be much more constructive to address things like this with BobCAD directly. Send them an email and tell them that you do not like e.g. the way they handle bugs or how they deal with so called UPDATES.

Honestly I'm happy to be able to work with a CAM doing all the stuff BobCAD does. Most of the other vendors providing working software are just ridiculously expensive. But I did invest a couple of thousands of dollars as well and I want a software that works for my money. I think this is for sure a reasonable demand, isn't it.

Okay, that was just my "2 cents" on this topic.

Greez,

dialsc

[fidia]

It is strange. I have 2 seats of V4. One rarely crashes and the other consistently crashes SolidWorks when editing the stock or machine setup.

[jrmach]

If you go back 5 and 6 years and look at some of my posts,I use to complain about Bugs all the time.2 things I did that really helped me was practice and Mr. Burr,and in recent years Al.
It's odd,I rarely crash.Seems like the more I use it ,the less I crash,hmmm
Usually when doing solid modeling//most likely work flow,,,I am not too proficient at it

[fidia]

I was using the second seat in the workshop today and first part crash at Edit Setup on the workshop PC. I hadn't realized that it was a common problem. I tend to create most of the CAD and toolpaths on the laptop in the cosy kitchen and then copy them to the workshop server. I normally only use the second setup for edits lol which is where it crashes pretty frequently. However the laptop has 16GB ram which may be making the diff vs 8.

[jrmach]

I was using the second seat in the workshop today and first part crash at Edit Setup on the workshop PC. I hadn't realized that it was a common problem. I tend to create most of the CAD and toolpaths on the laptop in the cosy kitchen and then copy them to the workshop server. I normally only use the second setup for edits lol which is where it crashes pretty frequently. However the laptop has 16GB ram which may be making the diff vs 8.

I always use 1 file per operation,,my preference,I like it that way..
Anyhow,I escape that Bug,,,whew

[fidia]

I must get more RAM for the PC and see if that cures it. Both computers have the same software build and OS and settings. Only diff is 8GB

[Rotax91]

Hope the bug fix gets released real soon. It's a big inconvenience for me.

[jrmach]

these kind of threads are so unproductive.This is "OUR" forum,,,not BoBCADS,,,,we are just fortunate Al pops in now and then.

[Rotax91]

sent you an email jrmach

[jrmach]

Different work flow than you
I almost always use Wireframe as my geometry and enter the depth.I have many good reasons for this,that we can get into later if you want.
Regardless,I don't ever have a reason to edit the stock,once I create it.
Am not making excuses for BoB,,,BUT,,,the "BUG" does not effect me with my work flow.

[fidia]

Upgraded the PC to 16GB ram today and tested the edit function with no crashes.