[Bill Clark]

If you are not out of a job yet keep buying Chinese,maybe that will change.

[kyfds]

Have any of you read the newspapers recently regarding the corruption scandals in China? Reference the dog food debacle in the USA among others. Some Chinese Chairmen have been sentenced, one that I read about so far; to death. Chinese Communist party members being thrown out of the party. Im sorry, Im sure some Chinese people are honest, but at the moment they don't seem to be the ones in International Business. I don't like the idea of my money disappearing down a black hole. I'm gonna pay the extra to buy from a Western company when I buy....it might be a Chinese laser...but I'll buy it from a Western company, like CTR Lasers in the UK. At least if all goes wrong, I can hop on a plane and confront them face to face. Just m2c.

Hi, I read the news and I am sorry for that too. But more than sorry,I think it is indignation. The man deserves the execution. This execution is based on the law in China.

As to the honesty issue, I am just wondering how did you get your conclusion that we don't seem to be the honest ones in international business at the moment?? Have some Chinese suppliers cheated you? If yes, I think it is better that you list the names on this forum, so that everyone here can avoid putting their money to the black hole. What do you think?

I think it is true that the population of dishonest people is larger on a continent than on an island. There are always cheaters and I want to execute them too,LOL,just joking.

David

[goddessofchaos]

I received my documents yesterday and have been trying to work out the details of getting it through customs and to Hilo. Customs hasn't returned my calls yet. Someone in Honolulu said he is willing to do the leg work for me through customs and to haul the crate to the interisland pier. This is a most generous offer from someone on this forum! I am also trying to get a quotation from a customs broker just in case customs becomes problematic with huge quantities of documents to deal with. Nearest I can tell this will cost approximately $120! I can fly to Honolulu RT for $80 and then try to work out the logistics there - those are the worst-case scenarios. Looking at all my options before making my decision. Best news is that shipping cost from Honolulu to Hilo is only $28 (unless there is a hidden surprise there as well! LOL) The crate is in Honolulu and will be available to get by Monday. Barge leaves for Hilo on Wed. and crate is available to pick up on Fri. It is all a learning process and by the time this is done both Frank and myself should be experts on shipping to Hawaii!

Jacqui,

I am expecting my laser by the end of this week as far as I can determine. I have received the orginals of the shipping papers last week. I will be doing my own customs clearance, so if you are going to do yours (might as well it will save you money) then they should be sending the papers to you by courier. The papers are always late coming I hear, but as long as they beat the boat, it shouldnt matter.

I guess you are just in a bad location for shipping from China, I guess due to the location of the international shipping lanes. I might have been faster to have it shipped to LA, then back to you, in bond to clear in Hawaii yourself.

Anyway, I expect things to go ok at my end, although time will tell as well. So far my experiences with Frank have all been good. I do find though that it does not pay to ask more than one or two questions at a time, or they dont all get answered, then you have to repeat the process........lol.

I still believe that we have ordered machines from as reliable a company as there is available in China. There is one fellow in one of the other forums named Paul that is having great difficulty trying to get his machine from a fellow in China that goes under the name of HKXY I think it is. I think Paul is getting ripped off by this fellow who is an independant guy building lasers in his garage from purchases parts.

This is the process that I believe HXLaser uses, I dont think they manufacture anything, only assemble, but at least they are a fairly well established company that does not rape their customers.

I havent seen any posts lately from Paul, so I hope he gets his machine soon.

Later,

Pete.

[Neil Pritchett]

Hi all from CTRlasers in the UK,

With ref' to Thinkoutsidthebox's posting quoted above, re: hop on a plane'

UK laser seekers are always welcome to visit our factory (by appointment) to view and demo the Redsail lasers we have on display. They are all hooked up and working, so bring along your sample materials/designs and see first hand what you get.
In our experience that is the best way to ensure the machine will meet your requirements with no nasty surprises. We hold full stocks of spares and give 'on-site' warranty all in the price.
We get requests to quote/supply lasers to some of you in the USA (you are very welcome to visit if you are this side of the pond) but it is difficult for us to offer the quick installation, service and backup that our UK customers have access to.
The machines are very reliable once they are set up. However, there is always the possibility of transport damage. This is why we bring all machines into our factory for commissioning before shipping to our customers. Once the machine is on the customer's site, we send an engineer to install it and the software. Following that, the engineer trains the customer on operating and basic maintenance of his machine.
This way, we get very few support calls and happy customers from day one.

It seems to me that this type of service is lacking in the USA. I suspect it may be a result of the much longer distances involved. The longest distance from us to any part of mainland UK is 600 miles!
Anyone seriously interested in setting up distribution of Redsail in the USA with us as backup?
I must stress that we would expect any partner in the US to offer the same level of service as we do here. Box-shifters are not the answer for long term business relationships that we are looking for!
We have good products with FDA, proper english manuals and excellent relationships with Redsail in China. Send me an email if you are interested and able to meet the requirements. It may be the beginning of a good business for you.
To contact us, use the following link and go to the contact page.
http://www.ctrlasers.co.uk
Best regards. Neil Pritchett (for CTRfuture Ltd)

[Laser123]

Hi,

Can someone share the experiences of your importing and what documents has to be prepared for passing the US customs services. Is it complicated and difficult?

Thanks

Laser123

[goddessofchaos]

I too need some experience from someone who has cleared customs. My problem is in trying to find out the Customs Designation for the engraving machine because it isn't listed in their directory. They will have to come up with something but if anyone has the information that was used it would certainly help me as well.

The other thing I need is an FDA approval code for the laser. Again, it may be just up to the agent who inspects the cargo - at least that is what I am told. The customs agent told me if someone else picks it up I will have to get the original documents to them along with a Power of Attorney designating them as my representative and they will need an ID as well. If you get it yourself you need the same originals with your picture ID and you may or may not need the FDA documents - apparently this could be at the whim of the agent. I was told it is very simple. HAH!

Customs informed me that if the cost is over $2000 a broker is necessary but under that it is not necessary. Of course the broker said it IS but did admit that under $2000 it is possible to handle it all yourself. There is much confusing information out there!

I am very anxious to hear from anyone who has this information at hand. I hoped to have the machine cleared through customs Monday and ready to be shipped to Hilo on Wednesday. The fact that no one in any office calls back in a timely manner - on a Friday (!) has created a major headache!

Jacqui, Goddess of Chaos, GSOLFOT
(with a lot of extra chaos generated by this shipping thing!)

Hi,

Can someone share the experiences of your importing and what documents has to be prepared for passing the US customs services. Is it complicated and difficult?

Thanks

Laser123

[pedroman]

COSTS and paperwork

REPOSTED FROM ANOTHER THREAD
This is from my experience on a $3800 USD laser unit ($5045 total invoice).
I have attached the "ENTRY SUMMARY", "CUSTOMS BOND" AND "BROKER INVOICE" for the services by the importing company (BROKER) for customs as this might help you Goddess.

The HXLaser product (HX6090SE weighing 771 lbs in the crate) I bought could have been delivered direct to my door if I wanted to pay the extra freight. I chose not to, instead I had it shipped to Chicago which was the closest location I could have it delivered to a bonded warehouse and I pick up to save the land freight. I later found out that the rail system could have delivered it closer but simply had not investigated it fully. Most major cities have a rail head to pick. Frank is not all that knowledgeable about the shipping and the people in China are even less so. HOWEVER the importing agent Titan Lines (Shelly Chen) was well versed and took care of everything.

The unit cost ~~ 3,850 US dollars, freight from China to US was about $350.00 US. Customs and import duties are listed as:
CUSTOMS CLEARANCE 95.00
CUSTOMS DUTY 157.44
SINGLE ENTRY BOND MIN 50.00
IMPORT SERVICE FEES 55.00
LONG BEACH PIER PASS@4/wm 9.72
EXAM FEE 7.15
Total $374.31

Plus another $60.00 at the bonded warehouse where I picked it up.

To ship by ground was another ~700 from the LA port. That's about right as I have shipped many machines from California to Kentucky where I live.

The true costs to consider are:
Machine cost
Ocean transport
Customs duties
Drayage (Transportation from the rail yard to storage in bonded warehouse)
Ground freight to your location.

If you can pick up at a port just do that and save the money otherwise order the machine trucked to your location but shop around. You can call any major trucking company up with the following info and get a price to your door. Imagine the crate will be at some warehouse in a port city OR if you have them ship by rail once in the US to any major rail hub. You can find these port cities at: http://www.apl.com/routes/html/asia_north_america.html
Look for the PCE: Pacific Coast Express route as the port they ship FROM is Quingdao, China.

SIZE of crate IMPORTANT!
weight
value
pickup point
drop off point
do you need a lift on the delivery truck (extra)
residential or commercial delivery


I hope this helps anyone interested and makes the process less daunting.

Pete

[goddessofchaos]

Aloha Pete ~ I hope this info will be helpful as I am planning to go to Honolulu myself to try to clear customs. I will print out all this information since the documents I received did not have very much - including a breakdown of the costs on the invoice. Frank sent me the breakdown and I was told (hopefully correctly!) that the email will be adequate proof that the machine is less than $2000 which means that I don't have to use a broker.

Frank has been as helpful as possible and the thing that concerns me now is whether I needed to have the laser bond included with my shipping documents or whether the copy and the registration number will be enough. It has been quite a learning experience and I may become the resident Hawaii expert on the importation of Chinese Lasers! LOL

[Laser123]

Thank you so much for the info.

Laser123

COSTS and paperwork

REPOSTED FROM ANOTHER THREAD
This is from my experience on a $3800 USD laser unit ($5045 total invoice).
I have attached the "ENTRY SUMMARY", "CUSTOMS BOND" AND "BROKER INVOICE" for the services by the importing company (BROKER) for customs as this might help you Goddess.

The HXLaser product (HX6090SE weighing 771 lbs in the crate) I bought could have been delivered direct to my door if I wanted to pay the extra freight. I chose not to, instead I had it shipped to Chicago which was the closest location I could have it delivered to a bonded warehouse and I pick up to save the land freight. I later found out that the rail system could have delivered it closer but simply had not investigated it fully. Most major cities have a rail head to pick. Frank is not all that knowledgeable about the shipping and the people in China are even less so. HOWEVER the importing agent Titan Lines (Shelly Chen) was well versed and took care of everything.

The unit cost ~~ 3,850 US dollars, freight from China to US was about $350.00 US. Customs and import duties are listed as:
CUSTOMS CLEARANCE 95.00
CUSTOMS DUTY 157.44
SINGLE ENTRY BOND MIN 50.00
IMPORT SERVICE FEES 55.00
LONG BEACH PIER PASS@4/wm 9.72
EXAM FEE 7.15
Total $374.31

Plus another $60.00 at the bonded warehouse where I picked it up.

To ship by ground was another ~700 from the LA port. That's about right as I have shipped many machines from California to Kentucky where I live.

The true costs to consider are:
Machine cost
Ocean transport
Customs duties
Drayage (Transportation from the rail yard to storage in bonded warehouse)
Ground freight to your location.

If you can pick up at a port just do that and save the money otherwise order the machine trucked to your location but shop around. You can call any major trucking company up with the following info and get a price to your door. Imagine the crate will be at some warehouse in a port city OR if you have them ship by rail once in the US to any major rail hub. You can find these port cities at: http://www.apl.com/routes/html/asia_north_america.html
Look for the PCE: Pacific Coast Express route as the port they ship FROM is Quingdao, China.

SIZE of crate IMPORTANT!
weight
value
pickup point
drop off point
do you need a lift on the delivery truck (extra)
residential or commercial delivery


I hope this helps anyone interested and makes the process less daunting.

Pete

[goddessofchaos]

I promised a customs update and although I don't yet have the machine at home I did fly to Honolulu to expedite customs myself and the following is how it went:
I thought my experience (good) easing my Chinese laser through customs might encourage others. This is a cross post in case the other one was buried in a different thread. I made the choice to fly to Honolulu from Hilo since sending the papers would probably delay the machine another week.

I had heard reports of various customs difficulties other people had importing the laser machines so I went armed with as much info as I could and my good friend met me at the airport in Honolulu. I was told the equipment could be claimed after noon on monday but we went straight to the port and searched out customs. This is a pretty large port with close to 50 piers. There were two or three areas so we worked out way through them to finally find the office for freight and even though it was 10:45 I figured I would check anyway and with no one waiting I was able to get this taken care of without much problem. The agent had done his homework after he talked with me on the phone a couple of days ago and had the classification for duty figured out. I had worried about the FDA clearance for lasers (broker firm made it sound like a major headache) but nothing was necessary. So with duty paid and papers stamped getting the shipment released was the next step.

Since it was lunch time we stopped for lunch in Chinatown (great stalls kind of place where we had great lunch for cheap!) Back to the port and this required a number of stops. Moving company that had offloaded the vessel and had the machine in storage and also China shipping company to show the customs stamp so the goods could be released - of course these were at opposite ends of the port. Without a way to move the crate ourselves I ended up having the moving company make the arrangements to take it to the interisland barge port. That was the most expensive and unexpected cost but by this time I just wanted to be sure it was done. So it should be on the barge that leaves Wednesday midnight for Hilo Port and it is due to arrive midnight Thursday but I am not sure if I can get it on Friday as I planned since the shipments then have to be offloaded and sorted since it is not a full container load. If it happens to be at the back side of a container I would have to wait until the stuff in front of it is emptied out before I could get it, but at least it is on the 2nd to the last leg of its long journey - the last being onto a truck and up my stairs to be installed in my newly cleared office space. And I have requests for a couple of possible jobs once I learn to use it!

I want to post a huge thank you to all of the members of this forum who have posted their own experiences and who have been very supportive in answering my questions. Pete has been most helpful with his experience and Marc in particular who even offered to help me move it in Honolulu although I didn't see the email until after I had made the arrangements. It is the offer and thought that was most appreciated.

I am sure I will have many more questions re set up, and best of all, I have discovered two wonderful groups who also have answers to other tool questions so there has been a great learning opportunity presented to me!

as for cost breakdown so far:
Machine $1550 (HX3040 laser)
extra tube $300 (but listed as $600 on breakdown so there might be a 2nd tube included - won't know until I get the crate home.
Shipping $360 to Honolulu (thought it would be to Hilo)
Customs $70 for duty and paperwork
Airfare for me to fly there $100
Island Movers $81 (They offload, do the sorting because it was not a full container, and I also requested they transfer to the interisland shipping company)
Interisland shipping $27.50 plus probably $10 additional charges for forklift, and pallet.

Hopefully the machine will arrive in Hilo safely. Fingers crossed!

Jacqui, Goddess of Chaos, GSOLFOT

[lamicron]

Hey, what happen with Paul C the starter of this trhead? Did he receive the machine from HKXY??

[paulC]

Hey, what happen with Paul C the starter of this trhead? Did he receive the machine from HKXY??

I'm still here and still being mucked around.
I now have established a contact in Beijing who is phoning HKXY for updates but I'm still being told a new date each time. His story now is that he shipped the box and laser to another city for it to be treated prior to shipping. That was a month ago and at every contact is blaming his shipping company for the delays. His latest date is 4th August for delivery. I'm not holding my breath. From what I've found out it is very difficult to get the Chinese Authorities to do anything unless you have a contract with the company. A contract is not just a signed agreement it needs to be "chopped" with the company seal. I'm still looking for ways to place preasure on him and I'm feeling totally ripped off. I was hoping to start a business around the laser but everything is on hold. Its difficult to stay positive when this sort of thing happens.
Paul

[thkoutsidthebox]

Sorry Paul, I hate hearing stories like this. I also note that HKXY's posts on cnczone have steadily dwindled to zero.....

[goddessofchaos]

Sorry that you are still being mucked around. The one good thing about your bad experience is that I entered this area with great caution. I paid an extra 3% in order to use PayPal with my credit card and the company said they would back me up if there were problems. The only difficulty I had was some communication problems about where it was shipped (Honolulu rather than Hilo) and the local trucking company caused a 3 day delay by not getting it to the interisland shipper in proper time. But . . . . . drum roll!
I picked up my machine today and it is now up a flight of stairs in the space I cleared for it. It is amazing how much heavier the weight is in real life than in reading what it is in the specs! Machine is set up and ready to try out but I may wait until morning since I am totally exhausted right now. It is very impressive - seems to be a well built piece of equipment and for hobby use and small business I think the glass laser tube will be okay. I wonder if they can be retrofitted for the US made tubes at some later time. Not worrying about that idea now though. Pretty exciting day!

Jacqui, Goddess of Chaos, gsolfot

[kyfds]

Congratulations, Jacqui!
Enjoy your lasers!

[goddessofchaos]

Just a small addition for anyone clearing customs themselves (VERY easy process!) There is no classification for a laser engraver but they work around it (probably call it a mechanical engraving machine). The HX lasers have a USDA tag so you don't have to worry about that aspect (I worried.) Customs was 3% of the equipment cost plus $6 for documentation. My total for the HX3040 plus an extra laser tube was $70 but it was actually $9 higher than it should have been since the extra laser tube was listed as $600 and I had paid $300 for it. I was not going to quibble about it. The biggest expense and one that was unreasonable was $81 to the moving company to transfer it from the international ship to the inter-island barge. Plus they caused a delay of 3 -4 days! I just didn't have the facility to move it myself and the crate was pretty large so I would have had to rent a forklift to even load it onto something to move it. Weight was supposed to be 268 Lbs. but it sure seemed like more! By all means if you are able to go to the port of entry and clear customs yourself, do so. It was a very easy process and they were quite helpful. The agent thought he had told me there would be no duty (he didn't) so he was very apologetic about the 3%. It has gone up from 2.6% that is listed on their web site.

Jacqui, Goddess of Chaos, gsolfot

[goddessofchaos]

The saga continues. I set up my laser and everything worked except there was no laser beam. (So it seemed) Frank took me through a few trouble shooting procedures but then said he would communicate with his tech and get back to me. Meanwhile One of the members here had offered some help and today on the phone Pete Hagan walked me through some electrical tests and explained a few other points that weren't clear. It didn't work right away but that was because I didn't know what I was doing! Nothing at all was wrong with the machine but there were a couple of unlabeled buttons, one of which was important to the beam test, and the other thing was that I had lowered the bed and then raised it again to where it stopped. It had merely hit a tight spot but since I didn't try to go further the bed was set too low . . . of course the laser beam didn't do anything! I wasn't hitting anything! Anyway, I finally was able to test it and made a circle and a word in the software program which I was able to engrave on a piece of basswood. I definitely have much more to figure with the program but I at least understand the basics and the engraving turned out quite well - exactly as I had hoped. When I have something more sophisticated I will share!

Before I try cutting thin wood I think it will be a good idea to get a CO2 extinguisher. I did set a piece of card stock on fire because the power was set too high. No damage.

The Rabbit HX3040 is a well built piece of equipment and now that I have things figured out a bit I am sure I will enjoy using it! Frank has been very responsive as a sales agent and it is my hope that tubes and perhaps a couple of other replacement necessities can be kept in stock in the US to help users avoid long shipping times from China.

On another note I am rewriting the set up instructions in more understandable English and this will hopefully be available to anyone wishing them. Not done yet, but I'm working on it (in my spare time.)

Thanks to everyone on this forum who has posted an experience or answered questions. It has been MOST valuable.

Jacqui, Goddess of Chaos, gsolfot

[rakker]

Been reading this thread in regards to HX lasers. Talked to Frank and am interested in a 1290. Pete S, did you get your laser yet? Is it up and running? Either you're too busy cutting stuff or things are delayed.

Pedroman, you have a little statement at the bottom of your last thread -Happy with it. Care to elaborate? Cuts vectors well, engraves well?

Thanks in advance for any info

Rakker

[JimMacNab]

Hi All,
Could you explain what those other buttons were and where they are? Also what other steps you did to make your machine work. Thanks for the help.
Jim

[goddessofchaos]

Jim - on the control panel of the machine there is a light green button that does not have a label on it. I finally got a beam after I depressed the red laser button (which turns on the beam) and then held the light green button while I pressed 'laser test.' Voila! It also helped that I found that the laser bed was NOT at its proper height so a beam would focus above the surface.

I made myself a cardboard 45mm long and am using that to measure the distance of the laser head to the top surface of my material. I also have been fiddling around trying to learn how to line up the beam at any particular part of the work material to start my engraving. I am slowly getting there and when I do I will be adding some information to the instructions in hopes that my experiments will make it easier for someone else. I told Frank I am doing this but it will be a bit slow as I am trying to prepare for a trip and workshop I will be doing soon and my time is limited right now. Let us know if you get the machine to work - it is easy when you know the secrets!

Jacqui, Goddess of Chaos, gsolfot