[gtschance]

As noted in a previous post, my most recent word (early last week) was that the batch of SX3's my order was in was expected to be in on the 27th with mine shipping a week or so later.

After seeing the post about the SX3 backorder to June, I sent another message to Grizzly toward the end of last week. A CSR actually called me on the phone Friday to say: "The gear is in QA now - shouldn't be more than a couple of weeks before you actually get it." She said she would look daily henceforth and let me know if anything changed.

I got a call from the same lady today. She told me the entire run they have will be returned to the factory as unsatisfactory for sale. Next best estimate is June!

I cancelled my order. Not certain what I will do now.

Regards,
George

[in2steam]

Nice to know they atleast they really do use there QA. I wonder what the problem was that they sent the whole container back did they mention?

chris

[gtschance]

Chris,

The lady CSR did not mention what the Quality issue was/is. (I should have asked - sorry.)

I have been buying stuff from them for years. I naturally look in on the web about what people are saying about them too. It is evidently rare an entire run gets the axe since they have folks that are supposed to be looking over the shoulders of the factory.

Must have been bad.

This has been my first experience with them on an long term backorder. I think it is the first time I have ordered something that was "new" to their catalog/web site as well.

I have had nothing but first class service from them and I have always been satisfied with the quality (especially knowing ahead of time I was ordering an off-shore product). I do indeed like their customer service.

George

[in2steam]

No doubt, that grizzly has good service, there CSR respones were measureable in minutes via email and well stated for stocking inquires. The super x3 has been around to my best estimate about 2 years now, I would think that they would have had any bugs worked out. On another board I watch someone of good character said they were having speed control problems but what I don't know that to be the truth. Truthfully I might be best off to wait untill june I can get my shaper running the way I want it and they pick up a C6b lathe and work with that its been years since I have run a lathe of any size other then my taig. I have no dead lines for the stuff I want to produce so its all up to me and the checking account(the wife of course is the the CFO). I wonder about the lathe I want to get from them its supposed to be clearing customs right now (g0602) and it was expected to be ready to ship on the 3rd after QA gets ahold of them.

chris

[Bowman]

That sucks about the back orders and such. To be honest though what kind of operation produces and ships a large quantity of equipment that far before QA/QC looks at it to begin with? I would think these companies should have people in the factory doing random cycle quality inspections in process and certainly after final goods are declared done for shipment.

I do QA/QC work and we look at everything as a component or raw good when it comes in. Look at it again while its being made with tests performed during and then again before shipment and we ship all over the world.

not trying to turn anyone off to these machines I am even interested in them, it was just in hearing that they QA'ed them after they arrived here boggles my mind. I thought the main diffference in the asian made clones under many names in price was due to them using on site folks to QA to that companies minimum specs.

Bo

[in2steam]

That sucks about the back orders and such. To be honest though what kind of operation produces and ships a large quantity of equipment that far before QA/QC looks at it to begin with? I would think these companies should have people in the factory doing random cycle quality inspections in process and certainly after final goods are declared done for shipment.

I do QA/QC work and we look at everything as a component or raw good when it comes in. Look at it again while its being made with tests performed during and then again before shipment and we ship all over the world.

not trying to turn anyone off to these machines I am even interested in them, it was just in hearing that they QA'ed them after they arrived here boggles my mind. I thought the main diffference in the asian made clones under many names in price was due to them using on site folks to QA to that companies minimum specs.

Bo

I think you are putting these machines on a higher pedastal then they deserve. These machines are if you did not know produced in China, by a company called Sieg, and using the term Asian would more then likely make some other manufactuers upset. Japan, being of extra ordinary high quality, they are obsessed with qaulity. Taiwain and a few others are still even above china in over all qaulity, but don't fooled the chinese are learning at an extreme pace which makes the 1980s(USA vs Japan) for the look like a hundred years. I think that they are still behind the curve on teaching there masses about QC, and that is there single and only down fall at the moment, give them some time they will learn how to cope(or copy if you will) with that but that is another topic. At any rate grizzly claims to have QC people in the plant in China, but I also know that they buy equipment from other manufacters so its quite possible that the grizzly people if they are there full time only pop in and say Hi now and again. To give perspective an machine which is based upon this one is in stock(the X3) at grizzly and HF, cummins and few others. Its almost identical same save the head, and that is were the problem most likely lies. It could be something like a circuit that does not like 60Hz or as simple as a out of spec spindle(as you know batch parts are often problem matic like that.) I know that other resellers use Q&A people at some point in there process and I have heard numbers of over 2/3 rejection on a regular basis. One of the bigger price differences in my opionion( and its only that) is that grizzly has taken pride in what they do, they offer a warranty and support second to only a few companies(lathemaster comes to mind also), so a premium to be paid of 10% or so for that kind of service is to be expected(after all what good is a thousand dollar mill if you cannot use it when your 3 dollar switch breaks and you have to wait 9 weeks for a replacement). I just went to a cummins truck load sale today, they also sell the sieg products and they had the x2 or x1 I am not sure as it was in pretty much in 20 pieces on broken pallet with no handles and buttons missing, mind you they were trying to sell this machine, so the kind of companys that deal with the machines on this side of the ocean are not always any better then those that produce them.
One other thing that you should understand if you are dealing with shipping things world wide is that they get this stuff in a container, so its not real practical to just look at one now and again in the process, I am sure they ship 80-100 at a time and this is the first shipment from what I understand so I am sure they are extra careful this time around. My QC/QA people generally find out about problems at the endgame not in stream, they like to think that they catch some things(wereas my operators find most of it), but most of my scrap comes form the customer after we shipped it. Now I am in the printing buisness, we have for one particular customer about a natural 13-15% scrap rate post shippment and we lose 20-50% pre shipment when you run a process that is depends upon 4 others before it plus the odd off mishap or someone not paying attention things add up(thats going through about 5 inspectors hands). Sieg from what I understand builds most of there machinery by hand, and from the pictures I have seen of there factory is fairly simple, mostly benches, I would imagine that they also sub out alot of there work too so they put together what they get. I doubt that they have proceedures written down let alone and kind of ISO or QS format. I don't expect a machine which is going to building parts for the space program or run jobs 24-7 like a VMC or lathe. I expect a machine whos reputation preceeds itself as many of the sieg products do, esp the x3 and c6b lathes and which I can easily over come short comings on my own. Now you can always go out and buy american iron, and I have, I have a taig lathe and I love it, it can do wonders, but it cannot swing a 6 inch piece of steel, there mills are also good, again not really what I need. Or i can go buy a tired old iron(oh wait nobody made one like this) if I am lucky enough to find it, and spend time and money to get to a decent spec if at all. I have a atlas 7b shaper, which by many standards is the machine to have as far as table tops go, if you look at the way its put together I would say that the x3 is actually about the same league. I love my shaper but it was never designed to be a "pro" machine, although it was used in a factory for many years. I suspect that once sieg gets there problems worked out they will be the atlas of vertical mills and lathes in a few years. I also don't want any one to think I love the chinese, they pretty much cost me one job, and have endangered a second, there is no love loss, but they are doing the niche, and nobody in the states has thought of that in probably 20 years now. I worked for one of the last if not they last large table top mill producers in the states out of Milwaukee the Rusnok line was made by Electro-Mechano they were a good machine. But they never had the sales, and in fact the two years I worked there I can say I only saw 6-8 of those machines leave. Most of the equipment in that factory dated from the 1940s, no computers, no cnc, in fact the most automated machine they owned when I was there was a Green Bay multi spindle dril press. But I am side tracked, at any rate, I am glad Grizzly tagged those machines before I got one delivered taken apart cleaned setup to find out that I have a lemon.
Jeez look at me rambling now,oh well.

I just have to wait a week to see if they do the same to the G0602 lathe.
chris

[steve323]

I wonder if the rejected Grizzly machines will be re-painted and sold at HF in a few months.

[phantomcow2]

I wonder if the rejected Grizzly machines will be re-painted and sold at HF in a few months.

:rainfro: Heh
I've owned three products from Sieg now. A 7x12, an X1, and now X3. I've had good luck for the most part. I know the table on my X1 had tapered dovetails, so the table would bind up horribly. They were out of parallelism probably .003" over the 9" length. I got a bridgeport and recut the dovetails with a dovetail cutter. Besides that, hte machine was alright. The parts in general were made well, just some kind of crappy design. THe mini lathe however, has been very good to me. A few design quirks I think, but the parts are made pretty well. The lathe did require some modifications to make run to my standards (but it seems like all the Chinese machines do).
The X3 seems to be in a whole different league. My spindle runout is under .0001". Perpendicularity was off less than .0001" over 6". 6" is the best I can test because that's the longest thing I have that I know is ground parallel to better than those specification. The parts on hte X3 are made well, perfect fits, even pins to ensure a proper fit. I suspe the X3, being Sieg's top of the line model, gets a lot more QC attention. If they do outsource parts (which I am certain they do, probably for all castings and table), they are more selective. This is why the X3 is twice the cost of the model beneath it.

[in2steam]

I wonder if the rejected Grizzly machines will be re-painted and sold at HF in a few months.

That 2/3 of rejections was from a store manager of HF he was talking to me while returning a bad compressor. They also have a qaulity control, but he did admit there standards were more along the lines of does it have a handle on it, and does it spin. I suspect also that they treat the x3 (sieg)with more loving hands, but in general Sieg products have been improving from what I have read on forums everwhere.

chris

[Bowman]

Easy now lol I know its China and not the highest quality that is to be expected. I was just pointing out the folly of such a QA/QC error from a QA Auditor standpoint. And I bet they do end up sold somewhere as is. Your very right that at least they do QC them once they get here, as I would expect them to do along with the checks over there but who knows.

You pays your money you takes your chances and besides your trying to fit it to CNC anyway so you become its master of puppets.

I will keep my eye on them in threads it looks promising I must say.


Bo

[MrMark06]

Well it must be June. Funny it is not very warm...

I too had recently placed an order for a super X3 from Grizzly and got the same backorder til June message. However I just received an email from Grizzly indicating that my mill had shipped. They included a tracking number and according to the shipping company it was picked it up yesterday. Hope it is really the mill and not a box of rocks ...

Mark

[bryanrabb]

Based soley on me being a knowitall. You could be the first physical owner of a griz super x-3.

[MrMark06]

That thought fills me with a combination of excitement and dread ...
I will report back when I actually open the box of rocks ...

[in2steam]

That thought fills me with a combination of excitement and dread ...
I will report back when I actually open the box of rocks ...

Please do, I wonder if they got some more or went back through the orginal shipment. Or the CSRs had no clue and were only looking a screen with one line of information. On a lighter note I noticed the people in the syil america board talking about blowing up some circuits on there boards for speed control on their sx3s.
chris

[MrMark06]

It is a good day!

My box of rocks arrived today, and guess what was inside.
Well covered in the usual red grease. Probably will be about a week before I have it running as I have not yet built a bench for it (thought I had til June) and I need to finish my son's bedside table.

One thing about the my delivery. This was the first time that I had something delivered from Grizzly via UPS Freight. When I first called to arrange delivery I was told lift gate service was $100! Fortunately the second person I talked to knew that there was a lower rate since it was from Grizzly ... only $32. Also the crate is not high enough to get a standard jack under it. It took some work for me and a very helpful UPS driver to get it up onto a jack.

[in2steam]

Were are the cigars!
Its very cute, makes you want to squeeze the handle.

Do you think a regular fork truck can pick it?
If you could would you measure the outside of the crate....


Chris

[bryanrabb]

Lucky Sob.

[in2steam]

Well I emailed the CSRs again today, in regards to sx3

And they now said 4-6 weeks but today the cannot give me a more specfic time until an order is placed, what changed since last week friday?
chris

[Crylands]

Just received my Grizzly G0619/ (Super X3). I love it. The manual is great, and has an outstanding electrical diagram, t-shooting, and supurb photos. I looked online at the Grizzly website, the manual is even in color with respect to the electrical. These guys give great support. While heavy as a beast to get up ontop of my cinderblock pedistal, it was immaculate right out of the crate! Let me know if you have any questions.

[MrMark06]

Chris,

The shipping crate is ~ 31" x 31" x 37" tall. There are rails on the bottom that hold the crate about 2.5" off of the ground. I suspect a regular fork lift could get under it assuming the spacing between the rails is appropriate. If not, it could be tipped and then slid onto the forks.

Mark