[kolec94]

I have been looking at getting a cnc mill and for my budget of $10-15k I am wondering should i get a fully loaded tormach or a chinese cnc mill?

[CROSSHATCH]

Well you can say the Tormach is Chinese to a certain extent, if you know what I mean.

Tormach has a great reputation and they make a Solid machine and hardware. Have you looked at the Novakon Torus? Machine has a large envelope and the company is moving to the United States.

I chose the Novakon over Tormach because of the size, I am very happy with the performance and it has it's fair share of upgrades too.

Regards,

-Jason

[Tkamsker]

What so You Need x y z TRAVEL atc ? If You live in USA Support your Economy...


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[kolec94]

What so You Need x y z TRAVEL atc ? If You live in USA Support your Economy...


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8x12xatleast 4
atc would be a plus
i want to have it enclosed
and also looking to eventutaly get a lathe but not a tormach since its not enclosed
and i want to mill titanium and hardened steels

[Tkamsker]

Hi if You live in Europe i Would recommend ours have TRAVEL 14.9606 in x 7.28346 in y 11.8 in z made in Austria!! 220v ISO 30 tooling and i work on the atc but if You live in USA Support is key so stay Away from asia stuff cheap is expensive Even if You do Hobby stuff if something goes wrong You Need Support... Just my 5 Cents


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[RCaffin]

It sometimes seems .. that if you have a $15k budget and you want a cheap Chinese machine, you should allocate $5k for the machine and $10k for fixing it.

Cheers
Roger

[Tkamsker]

Well sayed we had Even worser experience with syll


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[RCaffin]

i want to mill titanium and hardened steels

If you want to mill these to any significant volume, then you are going to need a pro or semi-pro machine. Converted light hobby mills just won't hack it. And you will need a heavy construction to get the accuracy. Mass, mass, and more mass. And big bearings. Yes, I do mill 6Al-4V titanium.

Cheers
Roger

[lcvette]

I just bought a Chinese mill, the price was too good to pass up.. For the money and what I am getting I couldn't pass it up..... It is a XK7130, linear rail machine, full enclosure with 3.7kw spindle servo 8000rpm, 12 tool ATC, I opted out of any of the Chinese control and they are going to label all of the wires for me where they would connect to the control unit and I will use Linux CNC as a control instead. No Chinese controls use constant velocity just so you know. They all run point to point so smooth arcs ain't gonna happen unless you dole out some bucks for a better control system.

All in under right around $10k... I was looking at some other small vmc's used, bit in my budget they were all ragged out so bad I could trust what anyone said... This way I have a year warranty at least and the machine is new so should be nice and tight. They use spindle from Taiwan which is better and use genuine Hiwin linear rails and ballscrews.

For the money it is far beefier then anything new from the states I could buy. Net machine weight is 1700kg.. AMD for the price it is a true servo machine, with the 12 tool ATC!!

Pictures for your viewing pleasure!























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[RCaffin]

So does that mean the large flat black box on the RH side is not included?
I am not objecting at all to this idea - in fact is seems to me that the old 'black box' is an idea from 40 years ago which should by now be put out to pasture. The black box is so limited in what it can do compared to a software system like Mach or LinuxCNC, and upgrades are horribly expensive.

Btw - some Chinese systems can run curves and g2/g3: they just pirate Mach3!

What does it weigh? And how much is the freight bill going to be? Another $10k? :bat:

The biggest problem with made-in-China imhe is the absolutely crappy hex-head fasteners they use. They are so soft. I replaced most of them with good ones. That made quite a difference.

Cheers
Roger

[lcvette]

The total Machine weight is 1700kg or 3750lbs..

Yes the box gets ditched.. They are sending me a schematic and I will layout what I need for using linuxcnc which I agree is superior to their GSK or KND control systems they charge $3k+ for.

This machine has travels as follows:

X - 700mm
Y - 380mm
Z - 450mm (100-550mm nose to table)

Table is 1000mm x 300mm

Use 35mm RG series Hiwin rails

And 32mm x 6mm pitch ballscrews.

.02mm (.0007") positional accuracy

.015mm (.0003") repeatable

Spindle is a 3.7kw true spindle servo. And spindle is available in BT40 or BT30.. I got BT30 because of the lower cost tool holders and I use primarily 3/8" endmills or smaller for my work pieces.

I am dealing directly with the factory which is nice and pricing is significantly better as well as minor modifications and customizations.

Shipping is CIF ((product) Cost, Insurance and Freight) it is included in that price! To the destination port. I live in a port city so I just need to get it 5 miles from the port loading docks to my shop.

Customs, duties and taxes I ad calculated for me and come to $787.00

So to get it 5 miles from my house, total cost is $10,586.00.

If you live inside the States away from a port city, you could negotiate terms to deliver all the way to your address. It of course would add the cost to freight it from the port to its final address based on crate size and gross shipped weight.

Being only ~3750lbs, I will load it on a flatbed tow behind car trailer and rent a 6k lb forklift to move it in to my attached shop/garage.

I figure I'm all in to its place of use including forklift rental for under $11k.

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[Tkamsker]

Hi
that is an verry cool deal
Question are the motors and servos in that deal so just the linuxcnc control is missing or do you have to buy servos ? And is there an oiler system as well and cooling ?
Question over question it looks verry promising i guess ,..
if you need linuxcnc help pm me

[lcvette]

Hi
that is an verry cool deal
Question are the motors and servos in that deal so just the linuxcnc control is missing or do you have to buy servos ? And is there an oiler system as well and cooling ?
Question over question it looks verry promising i guess ,..
if you need linuxcnc help pm me

Yes, the only thing removed from the running machine is the actual controller.. All servos and main electrical cabinet as well as all wiring, circuit breakers, filters, fuses, transformers relays, switches etc.. are included in that price.

Has coolant system and automatic oiler as well as 12 tool umbrella type Automatic Tool Changer.

I would love some help on the Linux CNC as I have never used it before but I know it's my only option since the spindle is a servo with encoder feedback for rigid tapping and indexing for tool changes. All of that will be a learning curve bit once it is all figured out I told the factory I would send them a copy of everything including a parts list for using Linux CNC so they will be able to add it to the machine before hand. Maybe change that black box into a touch screen with keyboard and MPG..

Chris

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[avtoklimatik]

Very useful info, thank you very much

[RCaffin]

Use 35mm RG series Hiwin rails
And 32mm x 6mm pitch ballscrews.
.02mm (.0007") positional accuracy
.015mm (.0003") repeatable

Hum ... good gear and good price but the accuracy/repeatability figures could be better. I wonder why they are not half that? I wonder what they are in practice: you will have to find out.

The ball screws may not have the best linearity/accuracy, although your system is not small. You can get Mach3 to compensate for that, and I would hope that LinuxCNC could too. Setting up the correction file might take some doing though - the calibration equipment would be $$$. Defer.

The repeatability figure is something I would like to reduce. I will assume that can be treated as backlash, and you should be able to get that below 0.005 mm. Doing so may require some work on the ball screw nut and bearings, and possibly the motor coupling as well. True, the backlash is not bad for a large system; the problem is when you want to machine a small object. Eh - one can dream.

All in all, sounds like you will have some fun.

Cheers
Roger

[lcvette]

Sure, I would love .00001". Bit for my budget I need to be realistic.. If that is what you need to make parts this isn't the machine for you. But then again for the money/budget I don't think you will find that kind of precision and accuracy anywhere unless you are willing to pour a bunch of money into a used machine.. I need to make parts, this is no longer a hobby. I am ok with a few days installation and getting Linuxcnc setup and connecting the BOB. I am sure the tool changer will be some fun, I will hopefully get some more I formation on that this evening.

For my objective, I wanted a machine that didn't require repairs or have surprises.. I know the accuracy and tolerances going in.. Those listed are worst case scenario.. I was told that most machines hold tighter tolerances but they list the worst so customers can decide if that machine is acceptable. For my products it is very much within specification. So I am tickled to have a new machine with a year of support for less then the cost of a used unknown condition machine.

I also view using Linux CNC as an advantage over many of the stock control systems of older machines.

I imagine if you required a higher precision they could source a more expensive ballscrew set maybe in the C3 or higher grade, but of course you will pay for that precision as I am sure the screws are significantly more expensive in that realm.

I love that it will be wired and ready to install the breakout board or LinixCNC specific interface per my specifications.. It is like taking all of the hard work out of a retrofit and having it done for you using a great cabinet and components and clean wiring.

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[RCaffin]

I wanted a machine that didn't require repairs or have surprises.. I know the accuracy and tolerances going in.. Those listed are worst case scenario.. I was told that most machines hold tighter tolerances but they list the worst so customers can decide if that machine is acceptable. For my products it is very much within specification.

Sounds good to me then. Interested to hear how it goes.

Cheers
Roger

[pippin88]

Very interested in how the mill goes. The bit I don't like is the large cavity at the bottom of the column.

[lcvette]

Why so? This is a very common design which stabilizes the machine by spreading it's load points further out from the column's centerline. This helps stability from twisting and better helps to transfer strength from the large machine base through the column.

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[SwampDonkey]

Hum ... good gear and good price but the accuracy/repeatability figures could be better. I wonder why they are not half that? I wonder what they are in practice: you will have to find out.

The ball screws may not have the best linearity/accuracy, although your system is not small. You can get Mach3 to compensate for that, and I would hope that LinuxCNC could too. Setting up the correction file might take some doing though - the calibration equipment would be $$$. Defer.

The repeatability figure is something I would like to reduce. I will assume that can be treated as backlash, and you should be able to get that below 0.005 mm. Doing so may require some work on the ball screw nut and bearings, and possibly the motor coupling as well. True, the backlash is not bad for a large system; the problem is when you want to machine a small object. Eh - one can dream.

All in all, sounds like you will have some fun.

Cheers
Roger

Definitely superior to the Tormach, which would also be more expensive, slower, and smaller. Repeatability can be improved with screw mapping and a good Kflop setup with glass scales and dual closed loop would put it firmly inline with domestic machines 5 times more expensive. My company bought a new decked out Tormach...for $29,000. It cant touch the figures listed.