[Buzz9075]

Quick update.

I went back to us the machine and it did it again, even thought I did not change a thing on the setup. Still stumped... you know this is not the first time I thought I had made a change that fixed it only to come back later and it is back to working the way it was before.

Tried two other things. I tried a plain clear rubber hose gave it about 3/4" between each one and it did it still did not work. Tried putting some rubber washers in between the mounts, they are in but have not been tested yet as I was busy building out the shop to accomondate the machine and keep the dust down. Might be that I bump a side or something as I don't have limit switches installed yet.

I have order the lovejoy couplings suspect they will be in on the weekend.
I have located the limit switches (now that was harder than I thought to find reasonable priced limit switches)
I have order the break out boards for the limits switch and the relay board.

I figure once I get all this stuff installed I will review my problem again. If that fails I am going to remove the Z axis and do a few mods I have in mind.

As a lot of this stuff is coming in from the states it will probably be a week or so before I have it all installed.

Some photos of the work I did this weekend on the machining case (The BOSS saw how much dust I created with just one pass and I got shut down quick... in the garage with the table saws, chop saw, jointer and such or cover it up... to cold out there for me in the winter so cover she gets...)

http://74.104.179.252/thephillips/Ph...ncMachine.HTML

[thkoutsidthebox]

Wow buzz, that is a nice enclosure you built for the machine. Sweet.

[James Marshall]

Hi Buzz, I am building the same machine, and was concidering using the same software and drives. Sorry to hear all of your problems. I am wondering about the size and type of wire you are using. Being an electrician, I would not be using Cat-5 wire as some others have. I plan on using a two conductor 18 to 16 guage with a drain wire (shield). Cat-5 and tele wire is not for power applications. The above is power signal wire. I write the because you mentioned that you are using non shielded wire. I would like to know what you are using.

[Buzz9075]

For the motors the wiring I am using is the cables that came with the motors. I believe it is 18 gauge and it is not sheilded. Each length is about 5' or so (not very long). For the limit switches I have not figured out which wire I am using yet. As it is only really being used for on/off stuff and basically relaying the signal I was thinking of either my Cat5 stuff or some 4 color rainbow cable I have (only it is 24 gauge... a little thin I think)... I still have a wire box I have not even fished through yet... but should be soon as my limit switches should be in place tonight and I will begin my wire runs very soon

[paulC]

Buzz running CAT5 for your signal cables would be better than ribbon cable as you can earth the shield. But be aware, not all CAT5 cable is the same.
Structured building cable is often single core as this has better electrical properties for high speed communications. It is often used where there is little physical movement. CAT5 fly leads however are multicore cable and are designed to flex. Just make sure the cable you have has multiple strands of copper for each conductor.
Paul

[Fixittt]

i read this whole thread today.
I have a maxnc 15 OL system with a xylotex driver/xylotex PS, and Xylotex 269 motors. Sheilded cables ect. I have 1/4 20 TPI lead screws. I have found that I cannot get more the 20 IPM out of my machine. Setting the Vrefs to the specifyed amount from Jeff made them sound "ANGRY" 50 to 60 IMP and the machine sounded beautiful but would randomly stall. Sounds familure doesnt it? But at 20 IPM (Microstepping) with Mach3 it would run fine but again sounded angry. Lots of resonance. I built new motor mounts and flex couplers. no change at all. Totally disapointed I went into forums asking questions looking for answers. Here is what I have been able to come up with. The PSU and Xylotex driver runs in a range that causes the motors to be in a resonace range. Solution? more power and possably a different driver. Well after spending the butt load on this setup, that is pretty much out of the question. So seeing as I cut mostly soft materials like jewlers wax and MDF I sat and played with the Vrefs untill I lowered the voltage to the motors so that they would no longer growl at me when running in the 20 IPM range. Each motor required different adjustments. So now I am no where near the 40 IPM that was one of the big selling points on this system. But at least I am at 20 IPM totally stable and the machine sounds good.
Here is a link to my photobucket account with pics of my setup and such. you can see the couplers I made unter the FLEX COUPLERS link in blue ect.
http://s82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...MAXNC/?start=0
password to view is :zx9r
I hate to see you chasing your tail like I did mine for an awfully long time.
I hope this helps.

Robert
[email protected] if you have more questions

[Buzz9075]

Fixittt - thanks for the information on your work. I tried to locate your pictures. I must be blind as I could not locate them.

Ya I had a feeling I that something is wrong that I will not locate the issue.

I now have the following two in place awaiting testing once I stop working on all the other parts:
LoveJoys are installed on the Y axis
Rubber washers are installed on the Z axis (first impressions are good).

I should have some testing completed this weekend on both solutions. Before I install the LoveJoys on the Z axis I have some changes on it I would like to implement and will do them all at once and then test.

Anyone monitoring this thread with Joe's machine running the Xylotex controller and motors? If so how fast are you able to push Joe's machine with the Xylotex equipment?

[Buzz9075]

James Marshell & paulC thanks for the advice on the wiring. I roughed in my limit switches last night. Listened to your suggestion on wiring and found tons of stranded stuff. At first I found 18g speaker wire and used it for two runs (ran out) then I remembered I have a 250' spool of 18g wire for fixing lamps and such, the remainder of the wiring was done with this. To complete the wiring I just need the connectors at the points required to remove the machine from the enclosure.

http://74.104.179.252/thephillips/Ph...ncMachine.HTML

[David Da Costa]

I have a Joe Router with Xylotex and having similar problems to you. You read the story here http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26792


David

[Buzz9075]

Thanks David, I will read the thread when I got some more time. If there are others with different machines that are having the same problems I would like to hear from them as well. Actually I would also like to hear from those who have Xylotex working at higher speeds. If no one can get what is expected out of this device I think it should be taken to Xylotex for them to review.

[Fixittt]

Fixittt - thanks for the information on your work. I tried to locate your pictures. I must be blind as I could not locate them.

Where you able to get on my photobucket site?
If so.... when looking at the page above where the thumbnails are shown you will see words in blue with Example "4th axis" , " Xylotex setup" ect there is about 6 of them. These are sub folders that you can click on and it takes you to another page of pictures.

Also while looking at the very first page with all the thumbnails on it. If you look to the right of the page either above and/or below the thumbnail list.... you will see in small blue numbers 1 2 3 and view all. these are the number of pages of pictures in that current album. The numbers and "veiw all" are clickable.

hope this helps get you looking thru what I have done and helps. if you make a break thru... damnitt let me know. I spent about 6 months on this and at 32 years old, I should have this bald spot!

Robert

[Fixittt]

Thanks David, I will read the thread when I got some more time. If there are others with different machines that are having the same problems I would like to hear from them as well. Actually I would also like to hear from those who have Xylotex working at higher speeds. If no one can get what is expected out of this device I think it should be taken to Xylotex for them to review.

Sure i was disapointed when I could not hit 30 and 40 IPM on my Maxnc 15 OL machine. I upgraded my machine when the OEM driver control box died. With the XYLOTEX driver and OEM Powermax II 115 OZ steppers I was able to get 15 IPM where before I was getting a MAX of about 9. So the driver DID increase speed! Then when I upgraded to the 269`s from Xylotex it jumped to 20 IPM so that in fact did it`s job. as well. So I cannot complain. Am I satisfyied with the product? Mixed. I was looking to obtains something but fell shy by 50% But my machine is rock stable and working again faster and cheaper then trying to replace the OEM driver from MAXNC

[Den-Den]

The Xylotex units are not speed demons. I have been up to 60 ipm rapids with my unit before I started having similiar problems. Usually run it 40 ipm rapids and 25 ipm or less when cutting.
I have the 269 oz motors and 1/2 - 10 leadscrews.

[Fixittt]

The Xylotex units are not speed demons. I have been up to 60 ipm rapids with my unit before I started having similiar problems. Usually run it 40 ipm rapids and 25 ipm or less when cutting.
I have the 269 oz motors and 1/2 - 10 leadscrews.

which would make sence seeing as im stuck at 20 IPM with a 20 TPI rod

[Buzz9075]

Thanks guys and yup the math is close for the performance of the motor. So what system do work on this machine and get performances like joe see's with his setup? If I am not mistake he is getting 80IPM on 10TPI so that would be about 40IPM.

What a waste tonight was and now I got another problem (which took all night to trouble shoot).

My test tonight was to see if rubber washers worked or if the LoveJoy did a better job... Washers were winning before my tests got cut short due to a malfuction. The Z axis at 10IPM started to skip steps on a regular basis, not like before but like every turn it would grunt and loose some steps. This only really appeared at 10IPM and I have NEVER seen it before. Man was I confused and pissed. This was happening even with the motor in my hand and took 2 to 3 inches of travel to happen and when it started to happen it became more and more frequent. Spending the entire evening I think I have it figured out. The heat sink on the z axis was loose and not sticking the sink on correctly. It appears it is just a piece of tape.... When I hold down the sink with my hand all works well if I let go slowly but surely it loosens of and then it starts up again, push it back down and it cools down and all is good.

So has the unit been damaged due to over heating?

What is the tape? Is it easily acquired? I am assuming I can just use double sided tape. I do have a tube of CPU goop for conducting the heat on computers to the sink but they have a tie down mechanism for the sinks the Xylotex does not the tape is doing the tie down work.

Thanks in advance.

[Fixittt]

Buzz. when your motors are running do they sound horrid? Growling ect? Try lowering the Vrefs a little at a time. I think what is causing your problem is resonance. Get the voltage out of that range. sure you will loose speed and torque. but from the sound of it, its not doing much good not being stable.....

What I did was plugged my XYLOTEX PSU into a standard powerstrip with a rocker switch. I would test my setup. kill the power and adjust the VREF, power back up and test rinse and repeat untill my motors sounded good again. Once I came to the relization that I was chasing my tail, I settled for what I could get out of the machine and have been making chips instead of pulling my hair out.

Let me know if this helps ya.

[gtschance]

A data point since it has been asked for. (I have contributed various posts in the David DaCosta thread on his build of a Joe's 2006 R2 kit for reference)

I built a Joe's 2006 R2 from a kit obtained from Joe. I obtained the hardware per his assembly manual exactly as listed, same specs, same vendors.

For my driver/computer setup:

Xylotex 4 axis board, Xylotex 24V PS, Xylotex 425 Nema 23 motors (3 active).

Dell GX-60 PC with Windows XP, moderately tuned [turning off unnecessary services].

CandCNC Mini-IO (enhanced breakout board - fully assembled in case from CandCNC - NO tweaks)

Mach3 2.3x or so - forgot to look and I have already shut it down.

I have just spent the afternoon/evening making final adjustments and can reliably get 100 IPM rapids with 8 as acceleration on ALL axes. I will mount my spoil board tomorrow and do some sample cuts. During adjustments I ran a dozen different examples of V-Carve Pro items cutting air only. The router is mounted and for a few I turned it on to contribute to vibration. I did tinker with bolt tightness, bearing tightness, anti-backlash tightness, etc. I am using a PTFE low dust accumulation lubricant on the lead screws.

Maybe I am lucky but I have no issue with the Xylotex stalling.

Regards,
George

[Fixittt]

George what pitch screws are you using?

my biggest problem is that I had the machine and just threw parts at it. Apperantly there is alot of Math involved when picking components. Well, I suck at math LOLOLOL

If I could convert my setup to 10 TPI screws i would effectivly double the speed whithout much resolution losses due to microstepping.

now if I could get rolled ball screws ect retro fitted to my machine... maybe even more.

my setup puts the motors rright in the WRONG range... hence all the stalling issues.
Ohh just for the record Dont ever buy a MAXNC product. Support form them sucks big time! unless your spending monies.

[Buzz9075]

gtschance. Give this code a go and let me know what happens... this is what I run my tests against for 3 or 4 passes. If it works right lower the speed from 100 down to 50 in 10 increments. Let me know what happens. NOTE: You might have to adjust a few values to not exceed your table size. Try not to adjust the 3 axis slopes that are in the middle of the table. (the f100 will cause the machine to go as fast as you have your motors set at):
g01 z0 y0 x0 f100
x1 y1 z-6
x2 y3 z0
x3 y5 z-3
x6 y1 z-6
x9 y2 z-4
x12 y4 z0
x15 y3 z-6
x17 y6 z0
x18 y18 z-6
x24 y12 z0
x28 y18 z-6
x30 y 21.5 z0
y0 x15 z-6
x0 y21.5 z0
z0 y0 x0 f100
m30

[gtschance]

Fixitt,

My leadscrews are all 1/2 10TPI single start ACME - per Joe's design.

Buzz9075,

Will do, give me an hour or so to get back at it.

George