[Xerxes]

Very first and unofficial picture of my mineral casting. Cameron's Formula, all natural color, no pigments, 150lbs with motor. It's straight out of the mold, still has some plastic and artifacts on it- I just vacuumed it for now.

Wow! That is impressive :O Any pictures of the whole plan?

BTW, I though first that 1kW motors would be oversized for nearly any DIY machine but now they don't feel too big at all for this size of monser

[ckelloug]

Walter,

That piece looks absolutely incredible and as nice as any of the pictures of the commercial gear. Congratulations on a professional looking job!!!! :cheers:

Out of curiosity, did you use the deairing agent as one of the other poster suggested or did you leave out all of the additives?

[walter]

Thank you Cameron, thanks everyone. I appreciate your help, comments and critique.


I did use BYK agent, works great.


Xerxes,

The material allows me to find limitless new forms/shapes - I really enjoy this new found sense of freedom and love to explore the possibilities. There are no plans or drawings :-)


Glacern,

I'm using regular white quartz sand with aluminum oxide and zeeospheres (pictured below). The color comes from zeeospheres. There are different gradings and sub gradings, you may see 6 sizes but there are in fact 25 or more. It's somewhat important to chew on the idea of "25 grading fractions"- to understand and appreciate the whole thing. Cameron is the algorithm expert and he really did a fine job on this. Find more info in posts #1753,1717,1724,1705. Air release agent is BYK A-525, also found by Cameron. It helps in getting rid of air bubbles but you still need to shake it! Make no mistake: Vibrocompaction is the essence and core of this system. My E/G part was poured upside down and the first batches were very dry/unpourable. Thanks to vibrocompaction, there are no surface air voids. Also, the density which is even more important.
_

[ckelloug]

I believe it was lgalla aka Larry who suggested the zeeospheres. From the material samples walter was kind enough to send me, I believe it's the G850 zeeospheres that make the color dark.

Walter, it the sample box, what was the material labelled 1240?

[walter]

Cameron,

Larry is responsible for the color and overall sportiness. Thank you Larry!
I messed your formula with 850's but I had no choice, 850's give the awesome greenish hue! BTW, 1240 is the microcrystalline silica: http://www.thecarycompany.com/products/Unimin.html


Gerryv,

Appreciate the comments! I said "unusual" because it really is -for this type of work.

There are rules in mineral castings, just like there are rules in iron castings. There are no iron cast machines with steel framing/tubing inside. They've spent time and money to engineer the cast iron system- they don't need "framing". Same goes for mineral castings. The block is the real star and should work by itself. There are tricks of course, some manufacturers use rebar, some use steel supports and I'm aware of at least one Swiss firm using rigid cage inside their mineral castings but their machines are super duty and very special. The general idea is: cast your E/G like you would cast your iron bases.



The tricky part is with rail/ballscrew mounting surfaces. It is usually done with steel plate inserts. I didn't have time to chase steel plates or build complicated casting jigs (see picture below). I inserted the whole linear stage instead. It is not a proper way, that's all.

As for the machine industry comment... Well, people have their buying preferences. They go for Japanese steel, or German/Swiss if they have the money. Same as with cars. These things are very solidly made.


BrendaEM,

We are not using polyester. And great idea on surface plate! You can also cast your surface plate using this very material, or even lesser quality Home Depot sand/rocks mixture. Surface has to be finished using "3 day system": http://www.precisionepoxy.com/PlateInfopg4.htm

Another way would be to pour surface plate directly on your E/G part. Let's say your base is 96" x 48" and you need to mount the rails. I would pour the surface plate, then lay a 1" piece of ground steel or mic6 aluminum. And then pour again, to embed the metal into whole structure. This results in perfect flat plane and drillable sturdy surface.

Thank you all!

_
picture for Gerryv:

[nine 16]

A shout from the gallery: "You guys are awesome!"

I've read but snippets of this thread since its inception last January, and this project you folks have undertaken, and the progress you've made, demonstrates real genius. Sure, the kind of genius you can measure with IQ tests, but more importantly, the 'genius' that trumps all others; determination and hard work.

Now I will have to back up and read the entire thread.

I look forward to seeing the exact shape of some of the commercial applications of your work.

Congratulations.
-Mark

[BrendaEM]

If the thermal expansion characteristics of EG, are quite good, I might not want to spoil them by using long runs of aluminum.

[Seeing a link for PVA in this thread, I was reminded that PVA seems to have an affinity for aluminum sprayguns. It takes a while to go clear through the cup, but I've seen it happen. Perhaps the alcohol can wash the oxide off.]

[walter]

Here once again is the list of those who contributed to this massive project (in order of post#'s):

lgalla,ckelloug,brunog,greybeard,martinw,Geof,Zumb a,jsage,sposl,ger21,fyffe555,davo727,Mcgyver,
the4thseal,atenman1,JerryFlyGuy,Eson,BobWarfield,p upa,LeeWay,vger,speed33317,RotarySMP,WilliamD,
digits,harryn,Mazaholic,ahlbebuck,qroger,Xerxes,le rman,StepperMonkey,alexccmeister,DAK3333,turmite,
djshop,PlasticWorker,yugami,schrupphobel72 ,Aramon,Episs,uhrgerat,jkeyser14,Adam M.,Chris-Jennings,
RICHARD ZASTROW,svenakela,merl,BigS,SORCHEROR,mhasting2004 ,myinisjap,mholden,nMotion,CNCAddict,
max_imum2000,rancherbill,ServoWizard,ericdwilso,va cpress,Switcher,UdayanPatel,skippy,ImanCarrot,
VoxLimbo,eloid,JDW,AkvaCNC,oldpoopie,WYLD,rockingj ess,RogerH,SACEM,tiwanacote,Fireflowers,gt3073b,
wizard,garfieldsimons,granitedoug,MikeMattera,Wayn eHill,JoeCrumley,Armstrong,JWOOD,stlc1,pminmo,
hotponyshoes,thkoutsidthebox,icando48,victorf,wjfi les,Oldmanandhistoy,BobB.,BigAl1,DaveP,BrendaEM,
HBFixedGear,dansutula,hansa,millminer.







THANK YOU!

Walter

[lgalla]

Great Work Walter,
In a way,it seems to be the end of a massive thread,but it is just the beginning.
Thanks for your dedication to the cause.
Larry

[the4thseal]

Walter

i am on my knees. first rate job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i am still putting things in the trash.you are my knew hero

[walter]

Thank you!

I don't think I deserve all this, I'm just one of 100 or so people who worked on the project. Thanks for your help and support!

I've been PM'ing with Cameron about aggregates and stuff and wanted to show him something but our PM system wont allow attachments. I'm just going to post it here then. It's an old picture-it shows the material being used in mineral casting (bottom pic post #1886).
_

[walter]

~
Aggregates (resin included) - $0.90/lb




Deairing agent - Free sample




Organic vapor mask - $25




Wooden mold - $35




Sandwich wrapper - $3




Concrete vibrators - $85





Use nitrile rubber gloves! For aggregate details see posts #1753,1717,1724,1705. Material does not flow after mixing- it has to be vibrocompacted into desired shape (very important). Color & mixing procedure:

_

[brunog]

Walter,
You did some fine work!

Congratulations!

Bruno

[Bob, B.]

Walter,

If I walked into a shop and saw your linear stage assembly, my first thought would be: WHAT IS THIS STUFF!?!? After a bit, I might even ask you what planet it came from! It would NEVER occur to me that someone, (Human, that is.), actually made this them self.

I hope you don't think I'm strange, but I just want to touch it!

Bob, B.

Quote:
I don't think I deserve all this,

Reply:
Yes you do!

[chineguy]

Hello:
I don't want to give away any of Hardinge's secrets. BUT, They list a multiple component mixture of various size and weight filler stones in their machine parts manuals. The descriptions are probably useless to any one outside their shop. Harcrete is the name they use. I visited the plant and they do use metal structures as well as mounting pads molded into the Harcrete. I have thought that this would be a very good way to dampen and reinforce otherwise cheap machine tool castings. A rule of thumb that I remember was that thickness had to be nearly doubled to get the same stiffness when using a polymer concrete base structure. The damping was a huge benefit though. Many of the light weight benchtop style machines have hollow empty castings. It seems that this would be a way to improve them. Particularly if mounted to a very solid filled base, in addition to reinforcement of the castings. You guys have done some excelent work! Very Impressive.

[ironDigit]

creativity ,inovativity ,teamwork ,ingenuity and most of all generousity.

Is what i see displayed in this thread ,and i can't but congragulate and celibrate a very succesfull attempt at raising hobby machinedesign to a new level.

I can't wait to see implementations of this research around here and i will probably just reconsider me own future design.

My compliments and thankfullness to all contributors.

[Zumba]

Walter, your results are brilliant. This will probably go down in CNCZone history as one of the greatest technological achievements done by users of the forum in a non commercial setting. In fact, it's the perfect case study for anyone who wants to see how an idea goes from birth to success through hard work (and intelligence), done in a scientific manner.

Your results also show how everything comes together perfectly when you cover all the bases. My lowly tests with sand and epoxy had big void problems. I tried vibration, but results were less than spectacular. It's evident that vibration works best with properly graded aggregate (thanks to Cameron for his simulations and Larry for discovering zeeospwheres) as well as the de-airing agent. Lose any one of those important ingredients, and you get voids.

By the way, what % of epoxy by weight did you end up going with?

[alexccmeister]

I am impressed too. Can't wait to get mine started. But work is in the way. I have planned to use reinforcement cage. Will try my very best to document when I get started.

I have 2 weeks to my self in October when me wife goes back to her home country for holiday. Thats when I will go full swing making my table for my X2.

Walter, did you place the metal plate into the mold before casting. You must have cos the casting is flushed with the top of the metal plate. Lots of holes as well. Did you drill and bolt the plate down further? Thanks.

[walter]

Thanks everyone, really appreciate the comments!


Bob B,

It's like a moon rock- must be touched to be understood.


Zumba,

Exactly right. I'm a very slow learner and only beginning to understand and appreciate what Cameron was working on. Careful grading turns out to be the quintessential part of the E/G. I also like his deairing agent- works great under heavy vibration. As for epoxy content, I worked around my standard 15% or less by weight, adjusting on the fly. Drier mixes work better, don't stick to your tools and will liquify anyway. Large pours liquify quickly so initial batches should be very dry. It takes time to adjust from 1lb pours to 100lb.


Alexccmeister,

All parts are ground and pre drilled- I love the idea of service-ready parts staight out of the mold. It could be daunting for some- depending on ones ability to make/setup jigs, etc. Parts have to be aligned and stay aligned during heavy vibration. I drilled special service holes just for that. 6 10" screws were used to hold the parts in place. You can't let epoxy get on your precision surfaces so do plan ahead, there's not much room for error.
And great idea on the cage! I didn't like any framing ideas but I understand some manufacturers use cages to keep the 20000lb castings in one piece. Well, why not.

I'll dig up the picture of my parts and post it on Sunday.


Cheers!
-

[lgalla]

Thoughts to consider:
A hobbyist type machine may tolerate less than accurate rail mounting as the whole structure may flex compensating for the inaccuracy of the guide mounting.
With E/G,It ain't gunna flex so accurate rail alignment is mandatory!!!
Larry