[Polymorphism]

Greetings. I'm about to purchase my first CNC machine. I've been researching for many hours, and I feel that posting here is my best course of action to help me make an informed decision. First I'll give some background about myself. I'll then describe my requirements for the machine. Finally, I'll ask my questions.

I'm starting my own business producing specialty electronic products. I'm new to CNC, and this will be my first machine; however, I am studying programming and electronics. I would like to manufacture my own PCBs as well as device enclosures for small batch production and prototyping. I want to achieve a professional look for my finished product. Since I haven't had much luck with hand tools, I'm ready to make the switch to CNC.

Here are some examples of the type of work I would like to do:
http://goo.gl/6V1Bvq - Primary Use
http://goo.gl/9IBD5K - Primary Use
http://goo.gl/nQk8Rz - Primary Use
Guitar Amp Board - View topic - Check these out... not a pedalboard - Secondary Use
http://goo.gl/62E6K8 - Secondary Use
https://goo.gl/qKz93Q - Possible Use

I strongly considered the DIY route, but I'm concerned how long it would take to have a functional machine. I've had very little spare time lately.
Unless there are persuasive arguments otherwise (and I'd love to hear them), I think that purchasing a complete ready-to-run unit is my best option.

I've narrowed down the choices to those that appear to be the best for the money. My budget is $3000 USD, but spending less than that would be desirable.

These are the options I've found:

This specific 6040 ($1400 shipped):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-CNC-Rout...-/291054639648

X6-2200-l($2500 shipped):
http://www.omiocnc.com/x6-2200l-3a/

My questions are:

1. Are these really the best options for this budget? If not, what other machines should I be considering?

2. Is the X6 machine worth twice the price of the 6040 I linked? The prices are $1200 USD vs $2500 USD.

3. Can the spindle height be adjusted on the 6040 to clear an extruded enclosure like this: http://goo.gl/nQk8Rz as is shown on the X6 machine in this picture: http://www.omiocnc.com/media/wysiwyg...imension-2.jpg ? I ask because the 6040 machine has only 65mm of z travel, whereas the X6 has 140mm. So I would like to know if the height can be adjusted to clear the larger enclosure to mill through the 2mm thick top plate.

[snowyskiesau]

The 6040 systems are good value for the money and provided you're not attempting to cut steel or aluminium, they do a pretty good job. OK, they will do aluminium but it's slow going, engraving is OK though.
The thing that really lets them down is the crappy controller they are provided with. I replaced the controller on mine with a Gecko G540 and I run Linuxcnc.
Mechanically, the quality seems to have improved a lot since I bought mine nearly 5 years ago. I had to do a lot of work to get mine cutting accurately but a more recent version we have at the local hackerspace, was accurate out of the box (some assembly required).

I also have a X-Carve which I tend to use more, mostly because I can cut larger pieces.

[tgdavies]

I think that that 6040 looks reasonable. My thoughts are:

- Anecdotally, the black control boxes on the X6 are said to work well out of the box. The controller on the 6040 is an unknown quantity (although it looks the same, and isn't blue, which is a good sign). If you buy the 6040, be prepared to buy a G540 if you have problems, and be aware that you need some ability to wire things up -- power supplies and switches (I'm not aware of a turnkey G540 solution). Then again, if they really are shipping from the US perhaps you have more comeback if things don't work?
- It looks as though the maximum stock height is 100mm on the 6040, to answer your point 3.
- The 6040 says that it has an ER11 collet (max size 1/8") while the X6 has either ER16 (1/4") or ER20 (1/2"). I don't think that's a big disadvantage -- it might slow you down if you do a guitar body, but it wouldn't be a showstopper.
- You probably don't need the 4th axis -- maybe you can get a discount without it?

I bought a 6040 body+steppers and wired my own G540 + Ethernet SmoothStepper controller, which I use with Mach3 and MeshCAM -- I'm happy with it.

Tom

[jcarpenter2]

- The 6040 says that it has an ER11 collet (max size 1/8") while the X6 has either ER16 (1/4") or ER20 (1/2"). I don't think that's a big disadvantage -- it might slow you down if you do a guitar body, but it wouldn't be a showstopper.
Tom

ER11 collets can handle up to 1/4 inch shanks (this is what i have)
ER16 collets i think handle up to 13/32 inch shanks

[ger21]

2. Is the X6 machine worth twice the price of the 6040

I've never seen one in person, but I would say yes.
As someone mentioned earlier, the 6040's often come with garbage electronics.
The X6 **should** have far better electronics, and also has far superior linear rails. And a larger spindle, too.

[aarggh]

Hard choices! Okay, bearing in kind if you buy for price, at a size/performance sacrifice, I can pretty much guarantee you'll regret it very much once you really get into cnc.

I started with a tiny Sable-2015, and found the whole cnc scene so damn cool, and just limitless in what you could create and do, but the size I realised was too small for a lot of projects I wanted to do, so I bought a 6040. I was really happy with the construction and components used, although I did replace the garbage blue box controller once I determined they are a very flawed design, with a G540 and a new 48VDC power supply. The difference was just unbelievable, but after a couple of weeks I realised I needed (wanted really!) a beefier machine so I bought a 350kg 6090B from China. And I just couldn't be happier.

So to answer your question, before you settle on one machine, you really need to factor in the fact that if you truly end up enjoying what having a cnc machine opens up to you, you very likely will wish you had bought something more substantial. It all depends what your machining of course, I only planned on small signs and plaques and thought a 6040 would well and truly be what I need, but now i'm using the 6090 for all kinds of aluminium work, large signs, picture frames, speaker boxes, etc, etc.

So if you had to pick, a 6040 is great value and a really good machine, but you'll need to factor in a G540 and eventually a better power supply.
The X6 from all accounts is a good machine that will work out of the box, and is just a better constructed machine than the 6040. So even though it's more, it might be the better turnkey approach between the two.

The 6090 would be my ideal choice however based on my experience, especially seeing as I now have a practically new 6040 with only 2 months use on it that is packed away and will likely never be used again.

The 6090 comes in two flavours, the desktop aluminium assembly and the cast iron 350kg beastie that I have, bigger is better, and the more mass you have the better for reducing chatter and vibration, and getting a better finish overall. If I had to choose, and there was no way I could get the 350kg 6090, I'd definitely go for the desktop 6090 over the 6040's, and possibly beef up the frame and add more mass by adding some steel supports/plates where suitable.

Regardless of what machine you end up buying, absolutely don't go for anything with ACME or trapezoidal threaded drivescrews, or brass/nylon nuts, only go for machines with proper ballscrews and ballnuts.
Don't buy a machine with unsupported rails, you'll regret once you start seeing how much they flex. Linear Hiwin style rails are a plus if available.
Don't buy any of the crappy DC brushed "spindles" many of the smaller machines come with, they're noisy, run like crap, and break down. Only get a machine with a VFD/spindle, you won't regret it. I would also highly recommend a watercooled spindle over an air cooled one any day.

cheers, Ian

[Tkamsker]

hi i do doublesided pcb and enclosures for a long time now i think with 3k you will not be happy ,... whatever others tell you i for instance needed 3 toolchangers till it works flawless the routing bits which finally worked are swiss one ,.. i needed an vacuum table so this all added but now i can go from design to soldering an doublesided pcb in around an hour ( depending trace length ) and yes about cnc machine i use a heiz 400 t which can do alu verry well and stay away from any windows based controllers cost me more than 300€ in millers i tried win nc pc mach3 on several pc s


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[aarggh]

hi i do doublesided pcb and enclosures for a long time now i think with 3k you will not be happy ,... whatever others tell you i for instance needed 3 toolchangers till it works flawless the routing bits which finally worked are swiss one ,.. i needed an vacuum table so this all added but now i can go from design to soldering an doublesided pcb in around an hour ( depending trace length ) and yes about cnc machine i use a heiz 400 t which can do alu verry well and stay away from any windows based controllers cost me more than 300€ in millers i tried win nc pc mach3 on several pc s


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I'd actually completely disagree here as some of these machines can perform amazingly well for PCB work. In fact I kept my cheap and piddly little Sable-2015 cnc machine purely for PCB work as I found I could get as good a finish and results as my Quick Circuits 7000S, which is specifically designed for commercial PCB prototyping. And the cnc machine at least has a good Z axis, instead of being solenoid driven like the QC7000S.

I've also found the really cheap solid carbide 10-20degree 0.1mm tip Chinese cutters work fantastic. I've never worn one out yet, and only needed to replace them as occasionally i'd break them setting Z height. At less than $1 each shipped, they work out absolutely awesome in my book.

The trick I found is to have a good spindle, I have a very high concentric spindle now for it, but previously I used a Proxxon die grinder with the standard bearings replaced with higher spec ceramic ones. The modified Proxxon was around $250 all up so nothing extravagant, but the results were flawless.

So an appropriately rigid machine, and a good spindle with minimal runout, can achieve great results, easily suitable for through hole and SMD boards.

cheers, Ian

[tgdavies]

ER11 collets can handle up to 1/4 inch shanks (this is what i have)
ER16 collets i think handle up to 13/32 inch shanks

Oops -- quite right. Thanks for the correction.

[Tkamsker]

we agree it is depending on the quality and stability of the rails i looked now on the 6090 which is 2k USD i just wanted to say 3k usd will be tight ,.. and i would be intereted in your millers can you post a link ill try them immediately

[aarggh]

we agree it is depending on the quality and stability of the rails i looked now on the 6090 which is 2k USD i just wanted to say 3k usd will be tight ,.. and i would be intereted in your millers can you post a link ill try them immediately

Sure, here's one I use a lot, 10 x 20deg 0.1mm for $8.20AUD shipped:

10 X CNC Bits Router PCB Engraver Machine Knife Cutter 3 175mm 20° 0 1mm | eBay

I bought a heap as I thought they're cheap so they can't last long, but they have really amazed me at how much usage I get. As I mentioned, I've only needed to replace cutters I broke being careless, never worn one out yet. Some say solid carbide, some say cemented, but they are all the same I've found, very cheap but work great.

cheers, Ian

[Polymorphism]

Thanks to everyone for the replies.

I've narrowed my selection down to these options:
raptor
X6-2200L (3-axis) Woodworking / Metalworking CNC Router --OMIOCNC(Carving-CNC) -omiocnc.com
SALE CNC Router Milling, CNC Laser, CNC plasma machine, China, Servo Motor Drive, UK, USA, Italy, Spain, Thailand
3D CNC Router ENGRAVER Engraving 6040 Desktop 4Axis Drilling Milling Machine US | eBay

The raptor and the x6-2200l would cost me the same price( $2500 each). The raptor is probably more accurate but I'm not sure I need that level of accuracy.
The raptor has a smaller work area, 12.5x30x5.5" vs 14x21x5.5". I would be trading work area for accuracy, and the ability to handle harder materials. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
The generic 6040 only has 2.7" of z travel, I'm worried this might limit me. It's also $1200 cheaper than the other options. If the accuracy of the generic 6040 can give me cuts as clean as my example pictures, it would work fine for me. I'd like to really stress that point. I need very clean legible engraving and a nice finish on 2-4mm alumimum plate routing.
The final option is that DX-6090 machine I found. I can't find very much information about it. It appears to have better accuracy than the x6 or 6040 and a larger work area than any of the machines I'm considering. The price looks similar.

The full sized 6090 machines are too large for me, unfortunately.

I'm having a really tough time deciding between these options. I'd also like to know if I missed any options.

Thanks again.

[Polymorphism]

I've created this spreadsheet to compare the machines I'm trying to decide between:

https://goo.gl/1QH5N2

[aarggh]

I would be very happy if I purchased a raptor, George makes some very, very, nice machines! I don't think you'd be disappointing buying one, they're really well thought out and made from everything I've seen.

cheers, Ian

[da40flyer]

I have been trying to contact Omio to discuss their X6-2200 but have not gotten a response back for a week. I went through the contact tab on their website, as well as sent an email. Has anyone been in touch with them lately?

If I cannot reach them when I am trying to purchase, not sure how post sale support will be if I have an issue...

[ger21]

If I cannot reach them when I am trying to purchase, not sure how post sale support will be if I have an issue...

I've never dealt with them, but I really wouldn't expect much if any post sale support from any chinese manufacturer on this type of machines.

[Polymorphism]

I have been trying to contact Omio to discuss their X6-2200 but have not gotten a response back for a week. I went through the contact tab on their website, as well as sent an email. Has anyone been in touch with them lately?

If I cannot reach them when I am trying to purchase, not sure how post sale support will be if I have an issue...

That's strange. Lance has always replied to my emails within 24 hours, including yesterday.

[Polymorphism]

Omio has updated the X6-2200 machine. It now has a controller that runs the gcode. How do these changes affect my decision? Is this now a leading option if I'm looking for something turn-key?

X6-2200 - CNC Desktop Engraver -omiocnc.com