[CincyTJ]

I got this Emcoturn 120 lathe with TM02 control locally a month or so ago and am now working to gather materials to retrofit it to a modern control. The lathe is pretty clean, I dont think it has a lot of hours on it. The previous owner had it powered up and was moving the axis and changer, however I did not see that. He said the display would come on sometimes, sometimes not. I also got the transformer for the machine. I pretty much intended this to go to a retrofit to Mach3 from the start, so I was more worried about the bones than the brains. I was going to change the steppers but found a good deal on a pair of 5ph controllers so Ill keep the current steppers. I found a control for the Siemans DC spindle, but in the end I think long term it is better to replace that with a 3ph AC and VFD,so I bought a metric 5hp with an IES100 frame, so it should fit with no mods, however I may put a larger pulley on it because the RPM is only 3500, since its 5hp I dont think I will have any issue with overdriving the spindle to 6K, a 1.7:1 ratio will get me back to 6K RPM, I will need to determine if this physically fits. Anyway, thats where Im at so far. I would like to do a thorough estop circuit if anyone wants to post a diagram that would be greatly appreciated. I wont have a dedicated computer, the plan is to use a USB smoothstepper with a CNC4PC C25 LPT board, which is what I used for my bridgeport and router. I will need to get in touch with the guys doing the emco turret PCB, and would like to get some details about needed fuse, breakers, contactors, relays to make a door switch, spindle speed control and feedback, threading, all the good stuff.

thanx in advance for all the help

[CincyTJ]

so far bought a spindle motor and the axis stepper drivers. Its not inverter duty but Im going to try it, since its larger HP my hope is it will not have temp issues. Have the VFD identified but its common so no hurry. Im going to Ebay the Emco drivers to raise money for the retrofit, I also have the transformer to sell. Im modelling the control to fit in a commercial wall cabinet, should have pics soon of the 3D models.
Attachment 314600

[mactec54]

so far bought a spindle motor and the axis stepper drivers. Its not inverter duty but Im going to try it, since its larger HP my hope is it will not have temp issues. Have the VFD identified but its common so no hurry. Im going to Ebay the Emco drivers to raise money for the retrofit, I also have the transformer to sell. Im modelling the control to fit in a commercial wall cabinet, should have pics soon of the 3D models.
Attachment 314600

You don't need to change the Pulley with this motor, you will need the 5hp for your machining, this motor will do the 6,000 Rpm you need by just using your VFD programing

[CincyTJ]

You don't need to change the Pulley with this motor, you will need the 5hp for your machining, this motor will do the 6,000 Rpm you need by just using your VFD programing

thats great thanx, I wasnt sure if I could overdrive it 100% without heat issues. Likely I wouldnt be using the 6000RPM for 99% of the stuff I want to do anyway, but I do have some small aluminum parts and would like the capability. Do you think the continuous duty ather than inverter duty will have an issue? Finding a metric 100 frame and 3-5hp and inverter duty proved frustrating at best. I imagine in Europe it would have been much easier but the pickings are slim in US.

[mactec54]

thats great thanx, I wasnt sure if I could overdrive it 100% without heat issues. Likely I wouldnt be using the 6000RPM for 99% of the stuff I want to do anyway, but I do have some small aluminum parts and would like the capability. Do you think the continuous duty ather than inverter duty will have an issue? Finding a metric 100 frame and 3-5hp and inverter duty proved frustrating at best. I imagine in Europe it would have been much easier but the pickings are slim in US.

Baldor Washdown motors are rated to 6,000 in there spec's, I have run them at 8,000 if you get one get it with the Rotor Grounding Brush already mounted, you will have a much better Bearing life, this is something to add to your VFD driven motor, or any for that matter

[CincyTJ]

I already have the motor, is there something off the shelf I can add or do I need to design a custom shaft ground? I saw this in another Emco120 retrofit build and didnt know what it was.

[Mmpie]

You don't need to change the Pulley with this motor, you will need the 5hp for your machining, this motor will do the 6,000 Rpm you need by just using your VFD programing

Hi Mactec. I have this lathe which I bought already retrofitted and stumbled across this thread. It just so happens that I will very soon have an all steel chuck and matching backplate to fit it and will be looking to increase my spindle speed from the current 3000 max rpm (current chucks max rating) to 5000 or 6000, so finding this was well timed. I have a similar but smaller 2.2kw AC induction motor that has 2840 rpm stamped on the plaque, like the one in this build has 3450. Now I assumed this was a max rpm rating for the motor and it is on a 1 to 1 pulley ratio the same as the build in this thread, so I was under the impression I would either need to change the pulley or use a different motor.

Given your advice in the quoted reply, I will be ok to just change max frequency in my VFD and you think the motor can handle the extra speed?

This is new territory for me so I'm not really sure about it.

[zmajmr]

Hi Mactec. I have this lathe which I bought already retrofitted and stumbled across this thread. It just so happens that I will very soon have an all steel chuck and matching backplate to fit it and will be looking to increase my spindle speed from the current 3000 max rpm (current chucks max rating) to 5000 or 6000, so finding this was well timed. I have a similar but smaller 2.2kw AC induction motor that has 2840 rpm stamped on the plaque, like the one in this build has 3450. Now I assumed this was a max rpm rating for the motor and it is on a 1 to 1 pulley ratio the same as the build in this thread, so I was under the impression I would either need to change the pulley or use a different motor.

Given your advice in the quoted reply, I will be ok to just change max frequency in my VFD and you think the motor can handle the extra speed?



This is new territory for me so I'm not really sure about it.

Hi, you can change max frequency, I aslo have motor which is rated to 2880 RPM, and I set frequency so I can get 4100 RPM, I can get even more but higher RPM give more vibration because I have air actuator on spindle for power chuck which is not dynamically balanced, so if it was I could use is on 5000 or 5500 RPM.

[Mmpie]

Hi, you can change max frequency, I aslo have motor which is rated to 2880 RPM, and I set frequency so I can get 4100 RPM, I can get even more but higher RPM give more vibration because I have air actuator on spindle for power chuck which is not dynamically balanced, so if it was I could use is on 5000 or 5500 RPM.

Thanks, that saves me a headache and a bit of cash then . Is there no problem at all running the motor above its max rating?

I have two more questions you may be able to answer. Is the max rpm rating of the spindle itself 4000rpm or 6000rpm? I have seen references to both speeds from different sources so I am not sure which one to believe, this is the standard 120 without power chuck.

Also, do you happen to know the dimensions of the spindle bore? I know the draw tube is 20.7mm ID but there is a larger ID at the back which I do not have accurate ID measuring tools to find it, only calipers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CincyTJ]

motor was delivered today. I have a pretty good handle on the rest of the control except for the turret. I put in a request for info from Barrowdynamics for the emco turret PCBA he has created but have not heard back. if that doesnt pan out I think I will try to work it out with an arduino. Im impressed with the cnc4pc offerings and will likely move from the simple parallel breakout to their more complete board with a watchdog circuit and relays for 3 devices.

[mactec54]

motor was delivered today. I have a pretty good handle on the rest of the control except for the turret. I put in a request for info from Barrowdynamics for the emco turret PCBA he has created but have not heard back. if that doesnt pan out I think I will try to work it out with an arduino. Im impressed with the cnc4pc offerings and will likely move from the simple parallel breakout to their more complete board with a watchdog circuit and relays for 3 devices.

I tried to contact Barrowdynamics also with no reply back, post it they get back to you

[CincyTJ]

Im conceptualizing a magnetic pickup to positively identify the tool position at start up and during use rather than finding position 1 then resetting. Should be a simpler method but it may preclude using the barrow board and mach3 code anyway.

[mactec54]

Im conceptualizing a magnetic pickup to positively identify the tool position at start up and during use rather than finding position 1 then resetting. Should be a simpler method but it may preclude using the barrow board and mach3 code anyway.

I guess you know the the turret only rotates CCW to find a tool, once it has a tool it will rotate forward CW a small amount to lock

[CincyTJ]

I guess you know the the turret only rotates CCW to find a tool, once it has a tool it will rotate forward CW a small amount to lock

my thought is this, if I use 2 bipolar hall sensors and a set of magnets at every tool slot, the exact tool location is always known. Im not sure if Mach3 can read +5V, 0V, -5V, im still investigating that, but if it does I can use 2 inputs in the Mach3 to show turret position. Then drive the dc motor using the z axis and encoder input to rotate to the correct position, advance slightly then back in with a current sensor to stop and switch it to a hold current. I think with this set up I wont need the turret board. If Mach3 cant read -5V, then I can use an intermediate board to read the hall output and then I would need 3 pins which would be +5vdc or 0 on the mach to tell it position. But I think this will work well and be simpler. Im not a mach3 programmer by any means if someone can help with that. I will have to get the tool changer apart to see where to put the magnets but I think this will work pretty well, I know it already has optical sensor in the turret so there should be plenty of room.

[CincyTJ]

proposed control in 24x24 metal wall cabinet

[CincyTJ]

sounds good, Ill design something as part of the initial buildup, thanx, Im an ME so Im learning a lot. looks like there are commercial parts avaialble. a quick search found these, I would make a shaft sleeve and a mounting bracket and then use something like this, does that sound like it would be sufficient?

[mactec54]

sounds good, Ill design something as part of the initial buildup, thanx, Im an ME so Im learning a lot. looks like there are commercial parts avaialble. a quick search found these, I would make a shaft sleeve and a mounting bracket and then use something like this, does that sound like it would be sufficient?

You need the Brush holder like this, that has a built in spring that pushes on the back of the Brush, you are on the right track, some have the spring and some do not, there is room to mount them inside the motor housing

[CincyTJ]

Emcotronic TM02 control and the Emco transformer are listed on Ebay

control 111955514667
transformer 111955523257

[CincyTJ]

picture of the DC motor with the back cover removed. this thing is big, the housing on the left side is a squirrel cage fan

[CincyTJ]

started the dis-assembly in earnest tonight. pulled off the side covers and separated all of the cables and cut off the old plugs. I also pulled the cover off the tool changer to see whats up with that. looks like the ring for the sensors is damaged. If anyone has a picture of that ring could you please post it? I am guessing it will have 2-3 slots so that each tool position is identified discretely with 4 sets of on/off counters. I think I can duplicate this logic in mach3 and drive the toolchanger directly from mach3 using the z-axis output.

found pics of the ring and it is correct. so upon reflection it doesnt need 3 slots, one long slot that is over 90 degrees does the same thing. it will give alternating sets of sensor readings for 1 then 2 sensors as it indexes around giving 8 distinct combinations of sensors on/off. 1,1&2,2,2&3,3,3&4,4,4&1. just seems like they would have done a cleaner job of cutting the ring, it looks like it has been broken off.