[Psychomedic]

Good point

[louieatienza]

From the best that I can tell, a Raptor of comparable size to the Shark Ultraslim HD3 would cost me about $1000 more. It helps that the Shark comes with Vcarve and Cut 3D software and a Bosch 1617 router and mount. I will continue to search for a package that would be easy to set up and use but also accurate enough to meet my needs.

The Raptor is solid aluminum parts, aluminum extrusion, THK linear rails, properly sized ballscrews, proper stepper mounts and ballscrew bearing blocks. There's absolutely no comparison. Plus if you want to carve necks, you won't be doing it easily, nor satisfactorily, with that software. There is an xzero forum here in the commercial wood router section you may want to check out.

[InMesh]

This was the one that I built kind of the same ideas as the xzero ,scratch build lineal rails ball screws 2'8" X 4'6" Y and Z of 8 inches cut wise I have since made an extension to machine over the end of the bed , turned out nice $5 k au by the time I got up and running works well now all the bugs are Ironed out a two year journey but it was my intention to have a fun time and that I did .In saying that before I started I had visions of the many things I could churn out just Imagine ,the reality is a little different but I will not be put off and either should you jump in have fun ,cheers John.
Attachment 315128

[BanduraMaker]

These necks are cut from one piece on a XZero Raptor, which I believe has 6" of gantry clearance.
raptor

I think they are cut in the 300+ ipm range.

Nice looking neck

I was talking to Ger on the phone today and he told me about this thread. That is one of my necks cut on my raptor. It has about 5.5" clearance (6" to the extrusions but the table eats up .5") and has the 8" Z axis (actually about 7-3/4 in practice). My maximum heel height is about 4". Everything has to be planned out very carefully to be able to retract high enough to clear the stock and to be able to go low enough to carve the whole neck. I use a 6" insert ball end mill cut down to 5.5" to do the job I indeed rough at 300ipm and finish at about 380 because my machine won't go any faster right now (I'd do finishing passes at 600ipm if my machine could handle it).

Cutting necks isn't super duper hard but modeling it is pretty challenging the first time through, probably even more so if you're a noob. It took me roughly 9 months from start to finish working about 40% time to get a good neck program going but my model is fully customizable and so forth so I'm sure it could be done more quickly. Vcarve and cut 3D won't help you make a neck at all.

It would be challenging but not impossible to do a neck on something like a shark but I wouldn't even try myself. If you're serious about doing this for a living, you should be prepared to spend about $6k for the machine. Software is now free with Fusion. I don't use it myself but I"m going to a Fusion 360 for SolidWorks users demo on Tuesday!

Good luck!

[InMesh]

Thank's for that I was wondering when the model is made up say in fusion 360 what do you use to to render the 3d tool path ,I have looked at so many it gets confusing .

[BanduraMaker]

Thank's for that I was wondering when the model is made up say in fusion 360 what do you use to to render the 3d tool path ,I have looked at so many it gets confusing .

The reason everyone is recommending Fusion these days is because it's a bundle of both 3D modeling software and HSM works CAM software. For the low low price of nothing, you get it all and can play around to your heart's content. I believe you do have to pay if you want some of the more advanced CAM features but it's still only like $1k/year or something like that which is dirt cheap.

[ger21]

It's $300/year. They did away with the Ultimate version which used to cost more.

[InMesh]

Thank you guys for the Input ,yes looked at Vectric not what I wanted Fusion seems to be the answer from start to finish for more complex shapes and I can manipulate them also at a later date if need be ,cheers John.

[InMesh]

Oh should have looked closer Fusion can't really be used off line and if their servers are down so are you if the HSM part is there then that's the solution I guess.

[louieatienza]

Oh should have looked closer Fusion can't really be used off line and if their servers are down so are you if the HSM part is there then that's the solution I guess.

Well, you can pay over $5000 for a good CAM system (like I did over 5 years ago) because I absolutely despise cloud-based services, and I don't like the notion of renting software. And really for cutting wood, you don't NEED the HSM toolpaths that are in Fusion360, but you'll need the CAD. I got my CAM because I wanted absolute control of how I machine my parts. Back then I think I may have been the only one around using high-speed (constant engagement) toolpaths on a home-brew CNC; today everyone and their mother-in-law seems to have Fusion360 HSM. I watch a lot of these machining videos, and either Fusion360 HSM are really not high-speed toolpaths in the sense I know them to be (and I used OneCNC XR4 Mill Expert high-speed toolpaths a lot) or the people programming these toolpaths don't have a clue. Frankly, in wood, for roughing, with a good roughing endmill, it usually doesn't matter too much what direction you go, the machine will blindly make chips all day regardless of tool engagement. For finishing toolpaths, however, most cheap CAM will just do a raster pass, meaning back and forth at the specified angle of choice. On a higher end CAM system (I believe Fusion360 can do it) you can do a 3D offset toolpath, which give you constant scallop height/width on all 3D contours, in the direction of choice. Which, needless to say on more difficult figured hardwoods like heavy bird's-eye maple, can be of a great advantage.

The thing is, you'll likely do you CAD/CAM work on a computer NOT at your machine, create your g-code, then go to your machine. So you won't need internet access while machining. What's nice about OneCNC is that you can actually buy into a used license, get e-mail and forum support, and upgrade to a newer license at the same price as a previous owner, and upgrade to 24/7 phone support. And no maintenance charges, subscription fees... But you pay for it, and own it. I can take my HASP, and use it on any computer I have OneCNC installed on, which is super-convenient, though it's either only on my home or work laptop.

I do have Fusion360 on my computer, but haven't really played with it yet. I can't tell you how job setup is. I will say regardless of machine you get, it will be very tight, and you won't have ANY room for error, even with 8" of Z travel.

[difalkner]

Oh should have looked closer Fusion can't really be used off line and if their servers are down so are you if the HSM part is there then that's the solution I guess.

I too am reviewing Fusion 360 and balked at the cloud part. I've been in Technology Sales for over 20 years and have sold the cloud based technology a lot but I don't want my stuff there if it's the only way to go. But what you can do with Fusion 360 is to do your CAD work and then archive the file to your local machine. When you want to work on the file again just pull it up from your local machine. Then, if you've saved the project in the Autodesk cloud and don't want it there, you can simply delete it. I tested this out last week and it seems to work just fine.

I don't have my CNC machine yet but am reviewing CAD/CAM software so I'll be ready when it comes. And one of the things I want to do is carve acoustic guitar necks, realizing it will be a challenge. I drew a nice headstock today in Fusion but have a LOT of learning to do.

[BanduraMaker]

Oh should have looked closer Fusion can't really be used off line and if their servers are down so are you if the HSM part is there then that's the solution I guess.

I actually checked out a video earlier today about transitioning from SolidWorks to Fusion and in the video, the guy says something like "before you ask, let's get this out of the way right away that yes, fusion 360 has an offline mode that allows you to work on your models when you're not connected to the internet".

I'm going to a 3 hour fusion for solidworks users on Tuesday the 12th to learn more about this and if anyone has any specific questions about Fusion 360's capabilities, I'd be happy to ask them

[louieatienza]

I actually checked out a video earlier today about transitioning from SolidWorks to Fusion and in the video, the guy says something like "before you ask, let's get this out of the way right away that yes, fusion 360 has an offline mode that allows you to work on your models when you're not connected to the internet".

I'm going to a 3 hour fusion for solidworks users on Tuesday the 12th to learn more about this and if anyone has any specific questions about Fusion 360's capabilities, I'd be happy to ask them

Andy! Good to see you're still around! Good luck with the seminar!

As to the cloud point... my understanding is that most of the computational power of Fusion 360 is in the cloud, which is why it works cross platform and has meager system requirements. So I winder if what you saw was true, may lead to slight performance degredation.

[BanduraMaker]

Well, you can pay over $5000 for a good CAM system (like I did over 5 years ago) because I absolutely despise cloud-based services, and I don't like the notion of renting software.

I'm with you on this one Louie, I spent over $7k (list was $9k but I'm a very good negotiator )for my CAD and CAM software about 5 years ago as well and I'm petrified of a cloud based solution and also don't like the notion of renting software either! That said, the price for Fusion 360 and it's feature set is so alluring that it simply cannot be ignored. You and I spent more on our CAD/CAM than most people spend on their machines because we know where the value is. For someone just getting into it though, being able to get a full featured CAM package that rivals the $15k version of SolidWorks and adds T-splines and and and - you get a full featured CAM tool and it's only $300/year (free if you go for the simpler version)? Hell, SolidWorks just changed their maintenance program and while it would have cost me about $1600 to get up to date last year, this year it will cost me more than $5k just to get back on service!!!!!

For the beginner, it's a no-brainer to start with Fusion and move to something else if warranted rather than going whole hog into something like SolidWorks+VisualMill (what I did) for $8k right out of the gates.

[BanduraMaker]

I will say regardless of machine you get, it will be very tight, and you won't have ANY room for error, even with 8" of Z travel.

Oh...and yes, it is tight! I can do a 4" heel but if my stock is even a little taller than 4", I can't clear it!

[louieatienza]

I'm with you on this one Louie, I spent over $7k (list was $9k but I'm a very good negotiator )for my CAD and CAM software about 5 years ago as well and I'm petrified of a cloud based solution and also don't like the notion of renting software either! That said, the price for Fusion 360 and it's feature set is so alluring that it simply cannot be ignored. You and I spent more on our CAD/CAM than most people spend on their machines because we know where the value is. For someone just getting into it though, being able to get a full featured CAM package that rivals the $15k version of SolidWorks and adds T-splines and and and - you get a full featured CAM tool and it's only $300/year (free if you go for the simpler version)? Hell, SolidWorks just changed their maintenance program and while it would have cost me about $1600 to get up to date last year, this year it will cost me more than $5k just to get back on service!!!!!

For the beginner, it's a no-brainer to start with Fusion and move to something else if warranted rather than going whole hog into something like SolidWorks+VisualMill (what I did) for $8k right out of the gates.

Well... you're an aniMal like me! My other concern is of the protection of my files. My design computer is almost never online to protect this and other things. Plus I have no clue who may be looking into what I'm designing. Not that it's special, but still, has anyone fully read the EULA?

[BanduraMaker]

Andy! Good to see you're still around! Good luck with the seminar!

As to the cloud point... my understanding is that most of the computational power of Fusion 360 is in the cloud, which is why it works cross platform and has meager system requirements. So I winder if what you saw was true, may lead to slight performance degredation.

Thanks Louie. I have to find the video because now that I'm thinking harder, I don't remember if he said "work on your models" or "view your models" or "access your models" or what. I'll ask for sure on Tuesday.

[louieatienza]

Thanks Louie. I have to find the video because now that I'm thinking harder, I don't remember if he said "work on your models" or "view your models" or "access your models" or what. I'll ask for sure on Tuesday.

Cool. Would be interested to know.

[BanduraMaker]

Went to the Fusion 360 seminar last night and came away quite impressed. Although the CAD portion of isn't as fully developed as SolidWorks for certain things (e.g. configurations) many of the tools are further along than SW and it gives you a lot of options on how to create certain geometries. The thing most interesting I thought was that this is a "new" CAD system that doesn't cary the baggage of software that's been around for almost 30 years. I think to be proficient at it takes a re-do of how your brain works on a model. The guys running the demo were super fast at creating very complex geometries and it looks like they've really considered what the stumbling blocks are with traditional history based modeling are.

From the CAM side, you get the full blast 3-axis HSM works which is a fully developed CAM package.

Although it's designed to work with the cloud for storage, collaboration and updating, it works just fine in offline mode with no internet connection. You simply have to download the files locally to have access.

To summarize, this is kind of a no brainer for someone just starting up. You get absolutely everything you'd need and beyond with this package at a dirt cheap price. If this was available when I got started, for sure I would have gone this rout and, it's only going to get better. You're getting at least $20k worth of software for $300 month. The cloud thing is just a hang up a lot of us have because we're afraid of something we've never relied on.

[fretman_2]

How can you get it free? I'm looking at the website and there doesn't appear to be free.

Tnx,

I personally would not recommend Aspire if your main goal is guitar necks.
Aspire is not a true 3d CAD program. It's designed for relief modeling. It doesn't have the precision modeling tools that "real" CAD programs have.
I would start with Autodesks Fusion 360, which you can get for free.

Newbie friendly does not apply to someone with zero 3D CAD experience. And a guitar neck is not the easiest thing to model.
There will be a long learning curve.