[cdlenterprises]

Here is a link to a company called Quantum Fuels(ticker symbol QTWW)

http://www.qtww.com/

They are one of the leaders in hydrogen fuel cell development for automotive applications. Now I love the sound of a 4-barrel V-8 just as much as anyone, but I also love mountain streams and the 4 seasons and we're going to lose them pretty fast if we don't act now. I think these guys are working hard at making the fuel cell the normal instead of a theory. And the stock is pretty cheap. You just might make some money on this one.....

:cheers:

[fizzissist]

Fuel cells are red herrings when it comes to a true benefit. Their cost, the cost to generate the hydrogen, and the energy/pollution load leaves you in the red. Water out the tailpipe is nice, but getting to that point is no real gain.

Alcohol too has the same problem. Sounds good on paper, but the net benefit is far less than what is needed to make any real headway into weaning ourselves from oil. Too close to robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Hybrids are making good progress, and with battery technology advancing the way it is, there's a renewing hope in electrics. It'll be interesting to see how GM's new Volt fairs in the market, and how it actually performs.

[NinerSevenTango]

The stock to buy is the first company to discover and begin harvesting from a hydrogen well.

Until then, hydrogen will have to be produced using real energy, wasting a little according to the laws of thermodynamics every single step of the way.

Hydrogen isn't a fuel. It's an energy carrier, and not a very good one, for a bunch of reasons. The money to be made in this field is by companies who will get your hard earned tax dollars from the politicians.

Avoid stock in these companies like the plague!

Fuel cells that work directly off of real fuel (there's more hydrogen in a gallon of gasoline than there is in a gallon of liquid hydrogen) might be feasible. But they haven't been invented yet in a form that works for the long term.

--97T--

[debogus]

"Alcohol too has the same problem. Sounds good on paper, but the net benefit is far less than what is needed to make any real headway into weaning ourselves from oil. Too close to robbing Peter to pay Paul"
Brazil?

[Geof]

... Brazil?

Brazil? It is a country in South America, language is Portugese.

[NinerSevenTango]

Brazil is another country where the political decision has been made to override science, basic physics, and freedom. Gasoline is taxed heavily, the ethanol industry is subsidized heavily, and diesel fuel is banned outright because it is so much more efficient.

In order to have their 'success' at ethanol use, you'd have to live like them. Do you want that? Look a little deeper at what it takes to grow and harvest all that sugar cane for fuel.

[NinerSevenTango]

fizzissist,

There was a big splash in the media about the Volt this week, what with the auto show going on and all.

But at the bottom of the articles the authors felt compelled to add apologetically one small thing; the batteries haven't really been invented quite yet.

And again, electricity is an energy carrier. There are inefficiencies all along the path from where the fuel gets burned to where you can turn it into motion. All electricity does is move the pollution somewhere else, at an inescapable cost. It cannot be more efficient than taking a supply of almost ideal fuel with you and burning it on demand. I wonder how the range of the Volt will be affected if you have to run the heater?

[fizzissist]

"I wonder how the range of the Volt will be affected if you have to run the heater?"

LOL!!
I think we're on the same page....

A guy I work with has 3 EVs, drives 'em to work daily, and knows ALL the ins & outs of the technology, politics, and practicalities. He's the electronics tech for the department, and has been into EVs for years. In fact, we've even got an electric bus, formerly a Santa Barbara transit unit, that he's in the process of fitting up for our "taking science on the road" program.

The most efficient way, it seems, to heat a vehicle is to use a supplemental ...uh....fossil fuel burner. Propane is popular, or a little diesel fired heater. Draining the batteries for pure heat isn't a big plus. Especially here where it snows!!

Seen "Who Killed the Electric Car?"?

[austin.mn]

as i understand it, brazillian ethanol from sugar cane is a way better sollution than the corn ethanol produced in the states. the way it sounds the ethanol produced here requires so much more energy to produce it is really a step backward. plus there is no benifits for the driver, a friend has a new E85 compatable car, he filled it with E85 once and he said that his gas milage was so bad he would never do it again.

[fizzissist]

Brazilian ethanol from sugar cane is superior over corn because of it's higher sugar content. Iowa isn't know for it's good sugar cane growing season....so they do corn.

Just stumbled onto this great article on ethanol and ADM. Thought I'd post the link.....

Give Green, Go Yellow
How cash and corporate pressure pushed ethanol to the fore
http://www.grist.org/news/maindish/2...ADM/index.html

[fizzissist]

The Climate Energy Micro-CHP System combines Climate Energy's state of the art high efficiency gas furnace or boiler with a proven natural gas engine/generator module designed and manufactured by Honda Motor Company of Japan. This combination provides unrivaled total energy efficiency in combined heat and power delivery.
http://www.climate-energy.com/micro-chp.asp

The Ecopower Micro-CHP: Neat, Efficient and Easy to Maintain.

Principle
A Combined Heat and Power (CHP) unit basically produces electrical power with a combustion engine. The heat, which is normally lost in vehicles, for example, is recovered from the generator, engine and exhaust system and can be used for local heating purposes.
http://www.marathonengine.com/cogeneration.html

[Switcher]

The Climate Energy Micro-CHP System combines Climate Energy's state of the art high efficiency gas furnace or boiler with a proven natural gas engine/generator module designed and manufactured by Honda Motor Company of Japan. This combination provides unrivaled total energy efficiency in combined heat and power delivery.
http://www.climate-energy.com/micro-chp.asp

The Ecopower Micro-CHP: Neat, Efficient and Easy to Maintain.

Principle
A Combined Heat and Power (CHP) unit basically produces electrical power with a combustion engine. The heat, which is normally lost in vehicles, for example, is recovered from the generator, engine and exhaust system and can be used for local heating purposes.
http://www.marathonengine.com/cogeneration.html

Whats the point of the system being efficient, & no insulation on the air ducts?

http://www.climate-energy.com/graphi...ct_example.jpg



.

[fizzissist]

They're so efficient they don't need insulation!!

....I don't write this stuff....I just report it!

[Geof]

Whats the point of the system being efficient, & no insulation on the air ducts? .

If you are heating the space which the air ducts pass through what is the point of insulation?

[thkoutsidthebox]

When did the zone get a 'Stop Global Warming Discussion Forum' ???

Im not complaining, just curious.

[Dugg]

As I recall, oxygen is needed to support combustion regardless of which politcal party grows the corn or sugar. As the oxygen producing forests of Bra`-seel and the planet are being destroyed through combustion, will there be enough of the O2 to matter? Ooops, that may have sounded like a global warming comment... sorry.

[Geof]

When did the zone get a 'Stop Global Warming Discussion Forum' ???

Im not complaining, just curious.

A few days ago. Although it seems more a 'tout dicey stock tips and grip about corporate conspiracy forum'.

[thkoutsidthebox]

A few days ago. Although it seems more a 'tout dicey stock tips and grip about corporate conspiracy forum'.

rofl

[ImanCarrot]

I used to work at a certain place in the UK that pumped at least 5 gallons of Tri- Chloro, Tri Fluoro Ethelene into the air every day (thats C2, Cl3, Fl3).

I calculated that it was the equivalent of a small city using underam deoderants before the propelents were outlawed.

There was a perpetual artificial "cloud" over our lab.

And the sad bit is... there was absolutely no need for it.

Unfortunately I could say nothing about it

[sechichester]

So what you are telling me is that the earth is warming up because of us useing fule not that it is a cyclic event. answer me this question when the earth was in the ice age and nothing lived but bacteria did they cause the earth to warm up?