[triumph406]

Hi,
I am looking at a Fadal 4020 with the CNC88 control, made in 1991 that's in very good condition.

It has 30+ toolholders.

It has a TR65 4th/5th axis rotary table.

If you don't include the TR65 in the equation, what's it worth?

My concern is the CNC88 control, I'm looking to speed up my machining, not looking to HSM, but want to feed faster than 30ipm on my current CNC. Also concerned about 3D contouring on molds, is it likely to hesitate when machining fine detail in the mold?

Can the control be upgraded to look further ahead when machining?

Thanks for any help you can provide

dave

[warrenb]

You are stuck with 1991 technology so you're not going to get HSM with infinite look ahead as it wasn't even invented yet.

That being said. The Fadal line is sought after for mold makers. I currently have 2, and have owned 4, myself and between me and my buddies we have about 1 dozen. Taylor Guitar's factory relies on Fadals for their production. I do mold work with a 1993 machine no problem. I can cut 50 -100 IPM if needed which I rarely ever do.

Parts are easy to come by and David DeCaussian has his repair shop in California to help as well.

Do yourself a HUGE favor and get the USB reader from Calmotion. You will be able to max out the drip feed, which I think on that maching, is 34,800. Plenty for any mold work I've done.

Since you ask what's it's worth with a 5 axis setup... I'll give you $500.... At auction... Probably 8k-12k

[triumph406]

You are stuck with 1991 technology so you're not going to get HSM with infinite look ahead as it wasn't even invented yet.

. I can cut 50 -100 IPM if needed which I rarely ever do.

Do yourself a HUGE favor and get the USB reader from Calmotion. You will be able to max out the drip feed, which I think on that maching, is 34,800. Plenty for any mold work I've done.

Since you ask what's it's worth with a 5 axis setup... I'll give you $500.... At auction... Probably 8k-12k

I think you would have the 88HS control which is better (looks further ahead) at contouring than the 88, control, on your machine was contouring limited by the speed you could drip feed? I'll be doing a lot of parts that will have 2D pocketing, and don't want to be linited by the control, If I could pocket at 100ipm I'd be OK

[carbidecraters]

One of the bigger hurdles are that rigid tapping did not come out on a Fadal until 1993 so your using the spring loaded method. That would be a -2 system that would be very slow on contouring as is the -3-4-5. Fadal control chokes out on many maneuvers but you could use one f the updates from calmotion that uses a high speed bus. (Ethernet)

[triumph406]

One of the bigger hurdles are that rigid tapping did not come out on a Fadal until 1993 so your using the spring loaded method. That would be a -2 system that would be very slow on contouring as is the -3-4-5. Fadal control chokes out on many maneuvers but you could use one f the updates from calmotion that uses a high speed bus. (Ethernet)

Not being able to contour would be a big problem. the machine I use now with a Fanuc 0M starts to stutter at 30ipm on very complex curves, I'm trying to improve on that. From what I've seen a 88HS would be much better. I'm not so concerned about rigid tapping, I use a spring loaded Parlec now, so not an issue. Warrenb also mentioned Calmotion, will this improve contouring, or should I look for a machine with a 88HS control?

What about simple 2D pocketing? I've got a large production job coming with 100's of 2D pockets. I've read somewhere of issues of going into the corners of pockets faster than 40ipm, and not correctly interpolating round corners. Have you found that to be a problem with a 88 control?

[triumph406]

One of the bigger hurdles are that rigid tapping did not come out on a Fadal until 1993 so your using the spring loaded method. That would be a -2 system that would be very slow on contouring as is the -3-4-5. Fadal control chokes out on many maneuvers but you could use one f the updates from calmotion that uses a high speed bus. (Ethernet)

Carbidecraters,

Is that the 527F CNC Control ($7995) control you refer to or one of the Ethernet to CNC offerings?

I'm going to the machine this week to check it over, pull way covers off etc. What should I look for on the control? (cards installed/memory etc) Can the control be upgraded to 88HS spec? On some threads people have talked about buying an older Fadal with an 'upgraded control', I was wondering if this would be an upgrade from an 88 to 88HS spec.

Thanks
dave

[carbidecraters]

527f...yes. It will far surpass the 88HS processing speed but a factor of at least 5. 88HS was not much better than the 88. Fadal used a bus board for communication. This an EEproms seemed to be what slowed them down when it came to contouring (3 axis on up). The 88 is not a bad control and you can run up to 80ipm on 2d contours holding a good tolerance. 88HS would do 150ipm. The 527F ...I do not know if they have found the upper limit yet.

[triumph406]

527f...yes. It will far surpass the 88HS processing speed but a factor of at least 5. 88HS was not much better than the 88. Fadal used a bus board for communication. This an EEproms seemed to be what slowed them down when it came to contouring (3 axis on up). The 88 is not a bad control and you can run up to 80ipm on 2d contours holding a good tolerance. 88HS would do 150ipm. The 527F ...I do not know if they have found the upper limit yet.

Carbidecraters,
I called Calmotion about the 527F control, to add 4th axis it's +$1500, and to add 5th axis it's $3200, so a little spendy for me. I called because this machine comes with a working TR65 rotary table which I'd like to use.

Seems like there's little I can do to improve the 88 without spending a lot of money. If I could get it to 3D contour as well as an 88HS I would be content.

80ipm is OK for 2D contouring. I could live with that.

The money making work I have now is mainly simple 2D pocketing/drill/tapping/fav=cing etc. I have enough work to pay for the machine fairly quickly.

[carbidecraters]

Carbidecraters,
I called Calmotion about the 527F control, to add 4th axis it's +$1500, and to add 5th axis it's $3200, so a little spendy for me. I called because this machine comes with a working TR65 rotary table which I'd like to use.

Seems like there's little I can do to improve the 88 without spending a lot of money. If I could get it to 3D contour as well as an 88HS I would be content.

80ipm is OK for 2D contouring. I could live with that.

The money making work I have now is mainly simple 2D pocketing/drill/tapping/fav=cing etc. I have enough work to pay for the machine fairly quickly.

You can always upgrade to a -4 for just a couple hundred dollars. Look for a 1400-3 or 1400-4 CPU on ebay. The rest of your cards may already be updated to a 1010-4 or even 1010-5. 1400-3 or -4 are the 88HS.

[triumph406]

You can always upgrade to a -4 for just a couple hundred dollars. Look for a 1400-3 or 1400-4 CPU on ebay. The rest of your cards may already be updated to a 1010-4 or even 1010-5. 1400-3 or -4 are the 88HS.

Crbidecraters,

So if I upgrade to 1400-3 or 1400-4 then I would have the equivalent contouring speed of an 88HS?

The owner of the machine is going thru his paperwork to see what was done to the machine, but I'll look at the machine on wednesday and see what config it is.

[arc8d-drmn]

Fadal used to offer upgrades. All the boards/motherboard/keyboard interface etc. and you tradedinyour old stuff. I think now you just have to buy the boards and all the software separately. Maybe FadalCNC.com or ITS offers upgrade packages.

[arc8d-drmn]

If I remember correctly the HS was the high speed buss from the CPU to the video and comms card and it came out in -4 systems. So if you go to -5 you will get the HS.... Neil Deblassio still answers calls at the Fadal tech support line and he is a guru.

Hi,
I am looking at a Fadal 4020 with the CNC88 control, made in 1991 that's in very good condition.

It has 30+ toolholders.

It has a TR65 4th/5th axis rotary table.

If you don't include the TR65 in the equation, what's it worth?

My concern is the CNC88 control, I'm looking to speed up my machining, not looking to HSM, but want to feed faster than 30ipm on my current CNC. Also concerned about 3D contouring on molds, is it likely to hesitate when machining fine detail in the mold?

Can the control be upgraded to look further ahead when machining?

Thanks for any help you can provide

dave

[triumph406]

Fadal used to offer upgrades. All the boards/motherboard/keyboard interface etc. and you tradedinyour old stuff. I think now you just have to buy the boards and all the software separately. Maybe FadalCNC.com or ITS offers upgrade packages.

This looks to be in my price range!

ITS: Legacy Control, PCB-0280

[triumph406]

Since you ask what's it's worth with a 5 axis setup... I'll give you $500.... At auction... Probably 8k-12k

I looked at the Fadal yesterday,
Ways were in OK shape, some corrosion (very local) on the Y-axis, X-axis very minor wear marks on the boxways. X-axis turcite has some wear. Ballscrews have no end play, there's .001 and .0021 comp on X and Y, so ball nuts are a little loose.
Has the 1400-4 upgrade
Extended Z
HUGE coolant tank and integral chip conveyor
70+ tool holders in mint condition
Recent Hi-torque Baldor motor and VFD, with serpentine drive belts.
Didn't run the TR65, as the axis card was pulled out of it's slot, so didn't have time to trouble shoot, also the last guy who knew how to setup and run the TR65 wasn't there
Paid (a fair bit) more than the $12k, but I think still a reasonable deal

[carbidecraters]

!!!!!!!!! Not a bad deal. I do not think you can get a ring gear for the tilt anymore so if it has a mechanical problem it may be scrap or good for parts. You should get it tested out. Which cards were missing? A and B? The B axis eeproms are the rare ones. The are not an A axis nolim or no limit they have a software limit.

[triumph406]

!!!!!!!!! Not a bad deal. I do not think you can get a ring gear for the tilt anymore so if it has a mechanical problem it may be scrap or good for parts. You should get it tested out. Which cards were missing? A and B? The B axis eeproms are the rare ones. The are not an A axis nolim or no limit they have a software limit.

It still had the A and B cards, the A card was pulled out of the slot 3/4", nobody knew why, I'll put the card back in when I get the machine installed, if it doesn't work I'll get it tested or a replacement remanufactured card. I don't think there's anything mechanically wrong with the TR65, at least I hope not, compared to the pictures I've seen of used TR65's, this ones in mint condition, of course I don't know that until I get it running. I'm going to take it off when the machine is moved and hook it up next to the machine to test it. The work I have for the machine for the foreseeable future is 2 1/2D work, so need to make some chips to pay for this thing!