[soymilk]

I pulled that off their youtube video. Looks like we'll have a Y axis as well as X and Z. I wonder if they'll let us have Y offset for tools. This is pretty nice. Anyone got a duality with path pilot setup?

[kstrauss]

Has anyone contacted Tormach for an updated ship date? Their website says "coming in June" and it is now June 4...

[soymilk]

i was going to contact them today but I guess I forgot. I'll send an email now, i'll keep you guys posted. Probably won't get a reply back until monday.

I'm on the fence about ordering this thing sight unseen. You can technically get a grizzly G0602 and convert it for about the same amount.

[Tbkahuna]

I have the Duality and have used PathPilot with it for about a year. I will get a screen shot or picture to show what it has on the screen. It is easy to switch between the Duality and the 1100 and doesn't take very long in PathPilot.

Tormach said it would be ready the 3rd or 4th week of June.

I already have the quick change motor setup on the way from Tormach so I can get it installed ahead of the RapidTurn coming out in a few weeks.

The QC motor kit was $135 and the RapidTurn upgrade is showing $1695. I haven't seen a cost on the VFD programming stick. That seems pretty reasonable based on my good experience with the Duality. I didn't think you could get a converted small lathe for that, but I haven't looked since getting the Duality. I looked at that route, as well as converting my 12x36 which was $4K plus.

So far, I think the RapidTurn will be great.

[Tbkahuna]

The controller would not boot, so I posted a help request in the PathPilot forum. If I can get the "No init found" issue fixed I will get a picture of the Duality screen.

[kstrauss]

[QUOTE=soymilk;1893042
I'm on the fence about ordering this thing sight unseen. You can technically get a grizzly G0602 and convert it for about the same amount.[/QUOTE]

The SRP for the G0602 is $1275 and the RapidTurn is $1695 (both without accessories). I doubt that you can add ball screws, steppers, stepper drivers, spindle sensor, 3-phase motor and all of the other necessary changes for $400. For comparison Grizzly wants $3995 for their own CNC conversion kit for the G0602. Even after conversion you won't have have a collet chuck, the ability to index, flood coolant or any of the other nice to have features.

My plan is to setup the RapidTurn with gang tooling. Can any Duality owners shed light on how the software works for offsets and such?

[tmarks11]

We switch our control software over to 'lathe' via a selection option that will be installed when the software is loaded or initialised?

ouch, yes I missed that one. To switch PP from mill to lathe mode, I am guessing you would have to reboot path pilot as well.

So the sequence would be (if you had an 1100, 770 skips steps 1-3)
1. Power down the VFD with keyswitch
2. Plug in the smartstick (not a USB thumb drive as JW pointed out)
3. Power up the VFD to make it load the new constants
4. Shutdown and restart the PP controller to switch modes.

So if you were hoping to seamlessly switch from milling to turning and back to milling without losing your workpiece zero, I guess you are out of luck.

I'm on the fence about ordering this thing sight unseen. You can technically get a grizzly G0602 and convert it for about the same amount.

I am assuming that you are talking about stripping the headstock of the G0602, not using the thing like the duality lathe was used. Otherwise, the footprint is too big for the 1100 table, and it would be sheer terror to load a 430 lb lathe onto the mill.

The G0602 carries along a lot of parts that you don't need (such as QCGB) in this application, and I suspect the headstock itself is 3x the weight of the RapidTurn, making it very inconvenient to load. You would be better off finding a belt-driven headstock for this application.

[soymilk]

I was comparing it to the $2195 model. I don't know how the turn post is mounted to the spindle. I thought about it would be easier to just get the one with that included. For me, that would be the $2195 version.

How did you plan on attaching the gang tooling? I really don't want the $2195 version if I can get away with the base unit. Can any duality owners speak about tormach's tool mount for the pcnc1100?



I did find out how much those control "smartsticks" go for. Google has them for around $25-30. I'm hoping tormach keeps them fairly cheap. Would

https://www.altek.us/product/smartst...cement-drives/
https://octopart.com/smartstick-cont...iques-27556581


Looks like this will be total cost for unit.

Pcnc1100
$1695 + $165 (quick disconnect) + $25-75( programming key ) = 1885 - 1935
$2195 + $165 (quick disconnect) + $25-75( programming key ) = 2385 - 2435

Pcnc770
$1695 + $165 (quick disconnect) = 1860
$2195 + $165 (quick disconnect) = 2360

[soymilk]

I am assuming that you are talking about stripping the headstock of the G0602, not using the thing like the duality lathe was used. Otherwise, the footprint is too big for the 1100 table, and it would be sheer terror to load a 430 lb lathe onto the mill.

The G0602 carries along a lot of parts that you don't need (such as QCGB) in this application, and I suspect the headstock itself is 3x the weight of the RapidTurn, making it very inconvenient to load. You would be better off finding a belt-driven headstock for this application.

it would be a stand alone unit. I want a cnc lathe, but currently debating between buying a g0602 and converting it, convert my current 12x36 or buying a premade solution such as the inturn or rapidturn.

I like the idea of a stand alone lathe, Seems like the switch from mill to lathe mode for the pcnc1100 isn't as nice as i hoped.

[Tbkahuna]

I gave up on the boot problem last night, but after a few hours of sleep I got my controller to boot.
Here is the screen to switch from the 1100 mill to the Duality Lathe. Click the button in the lower right, wait several seconds and you are in the Duality screenset. That is very quick.

Attachment 322308

Here is what you get next- the Duality Main screen.

Attachment 322310

Here is the options screen.

Attachment 322312

[kstrauss]

My current plan is to order the "upgrade" RapidTurn for $1695. I have a 770 so there is no need for the programming key. I am working on plans for a custom quill attachment that will hold 3 DCMT insert turning tools, a cutoff tool together with 3 3/4-shank TTS holders for drill bits. The VFD will be switched between the lathe and the mill using a 3-pole switch that is mechanically interlocked with the spindle door switch to ensure that things aren't switched while running. All that I need from the quick disconnect kit is the female connector (does anyone know the part number of the connector?).

If you have to reboot PP to switch from mill to lathe it will be a super pain since you will then have to rehome and therefore lose an accurate position. Is that the way that it works with the Duality?

[Tbkahuna]

Here are a couple of more views.

This is the tooling and offset setup screen

Attachment 322314

This is what the conversational screen (for threading a 1/8" NPT thread) looks like
Attachment 322316

To switch back to the mill, you click a button and wait a few seconds.

The tool setup for the duality is a clamp that clamps to the spindle nose and holds an OXA quick change wedge toolpost. For the lower powered Duality it was fine in my experience. I am interested to see what the "Toolpost Stabilizer" is that is mentioned with the RapidTurn. Just a guess, that it is too provide more protection against the quick change rotating when experiencing more power with the RapidTurn. Just a lip catching the edge of the clamp could help with that. I did not notice that part it in the videos.

You set the offsets for each tool and orientation. The tool change is simple- just go to the tool change position (as programmed), manually unlock the quick change, put on the new tool, lock it, and push play.

[soymilk]

thanks tbkahuna!

When you switch to lathe mode, and back to mill. Does it remember your mill settings? Do you have to rehome? If you change G54 in lathe, does that wipe out your G54 in mill?

[kstrauss]

Thanks for the screen images! A few additional questions if you don't mind:

I use a Tormach QCTP on my Myford lathe and it is decent for the price. However, it only reproduces tool position to perhaps 1-2 thou. How do you cope with the variation on the Duality?
Do you have to rehome the mill when switching from mill mode to Duality and back to mill mode?
On the Duality Offsets screen can you set all of X/Y/Z offsets (in the mill sense) for each tool?
Are the Duality Offsets separate or shared with the 255 offsets for the mill? That is, does mill tool #3 and lathe tool #3 share the same offset table entry?
I noticed that one screen mentions a D1-4 chuck. Is that an option for the RapidTurn or just for the SlantPro?
Are there any YouTube videos showing how to use the Duality in PP?

Sorry for all of the questions but prior to ordering I want to be certain that the RapidTurn will suit my needs .

[Tbkahuna]

I'll answer your questions the best I can. I took some additional pictures as well. I will add those a little later.

The software works like it is two separate instances. The offsets in the 1100 instance are different and appear separate from the Duality instance. It takes 7 seconds to switch between the two, by the way. According to the indicator lights, you lose the reference when switching between the two and have to re-reference. The 1100 Z axis becomes the Lathe X axis and the 1100 X axis becomes the Lathe Z axis. The Y is the same name. The offsets are different. The tool tables and tool offsets are separate and different.

Mill work offset showing G54 and G55.
Attachment 322332

Right after switch to Duality, different, and no G55.
Attachment 322334

The D1-4 is just for the SlantPro. The software for the Duality and the SlantPro (and RapidTurn) is supposed to be the same, but I have only seen my instance of the Duality. If it isn't exactly the same, I believe it is very very similar. Tormach refers to a three jaw chuck with the 5C shank adapter. I am guessing that will only be a 3" chuck. I thought about trying a 4" but won't even try until I see the RapidTurn build and talk to Tormach.

The QC toolpost repeatability you mention seems about right. I am just really careful in positioning and measuring. That is a limitation along with the 1100 Z positioning accuracy (diameter on the lathe). I don't expect it to be as good as the SlantPro, or a purpose made CNC lathe. I am not a full time machinist so I use what I have and make the adjustments I need to get what I want. I try to learn something new every day, but use brute force to get stuff done!

I attached a screenshot of the conversational screen for threading the 1/8" NPT thread. It did a great job cutting the tapered thread.

I don't remember seeing any Duality lathe videos with PathPilot. The Duality was apparently on the way out, while PP was coming in. I am glad they made it work for the Duality, and now the RapidTurn. I will be using the Duality in the next two weeks, and probably before the actual RapidTurn release. I will leave a note on the machine to do a video. I'll check to see if I already have any as well.

Let me know if there is anything I missed.

[kstrauss]

Thanks again and I appreciate your patience with my questions!

I'm still confused about the offsets. Can I define each tool tip as having its own offsets along all three axis from the mill spindle centre? In the case of my planned gang tool holder each tool will differ in X, Y and Z from the bottom centre of the mill spindle. It would be extremely convenient if, for example, X=0, Y=0, Z=0 for each tool in my gang holder exactly matched a single point relative to the spindle on the RapidTurn.

How do you zero a tool? Is there some sort "tool height setter" available or do you just jog until the tool starts to cut, measure the diameter achieved and adjust zero appropriately or...?

I am comfortable using tool offsets on my 770 but I have always done turning on a manual lathe. I'm trying to get my head around doing setups on the RapidTurn and effectively using gang tooling.

[Tbkahuna]

In the lathe software I am not aware of a Y position for tools, just X and Z. I also wanted to do the gang tooling but I am not aware of any way to do that programming directly with PP and the Duality. I haven't used Sprutcam for lathe tool paths yet, just conversational and hand programming. Maybe there is something with the Slantpro that does it, but I am not aware of it. I was just going to program the Y change for each tool in conjunction with each tool change. I have a short table of tools held on the front of the machine, and was going to add Y position to it. T1, turning tool, Y=0. T2, threading tool, Y=-1.5, etc. There are probably better ways, but I thought that would work for me. The Y DRO can be put to use as well as to verify where you are if you forget the table movement keys control different axes when in lathe mode! I have the material to make the gang block and mount it to the spindle, the idea in my head, but haven't done it yet. Maybe the RapidTurn will generate some new interest and better ways to manage that.

Try this document from Tormach. This is what I started with. I did lots of reading to see what I was getting into with the duality and to make a decision about the Duality, SlantPro, or converting a manual lathe. There are other documents as well like the white paper on the engineering of the duality.
https://www.tormach.com/uploads/25/P...A1-2a-pdf.html

For zeroing I made a test cut, measured the diameter, and entered it. The others have a touch x and z procedure. That might have been in one of my pics, but should be in the manual or in the Slantpro manual. http://www.tormach.com/uploads/767/U...A_WEB-pdf.html

I also started using an electronic touch tool to set positions of tools, but found that not all have electric continuity through to the tip of the carbide insert.

[AVRnj]

Thanks again and I appreciate your patience with my questions!

I'm still confused about the offsets. Can I define each tool tip as having its own offsets along all three axis from the mill spindle centre? In the case of my planned gang tool holder each tool will differ in X, Y and Z from the bottom centre of the mill spindle. It would be extremely convenient if, for example, X=0, Y=0, Z=0 for each tool in my gang holder exactly matched a single point relative to the spindle on the RapidTurn.

How do you zero a tool? Is there some sort "tool height setter" available or do you just jog until the tool starts to cut, measure the diameter achieved and adjust zero appropriately or...?

I am comfortable using tool offsets on my 770 but I have always done turning on a manual lathe. I'm trying to get my head around doing setups on the RapidTurn and effectively using gang tooling.

Have you seen the YouTube video Tormach made on first part on the slant Pro? I thought Daniel did a very nice job explaining all of this

[keen]

Thanks for all the information folk.

Can anyone confirm that the Pathpilot Lathe that comes with Rapidturn will accommodate using the mill Y axis for gang tooling.

This seems key to allow automatic accurate CNC production turning.

Keen

[tmarks11]

it would be a stand alone unit. I want a cnc lathe, but currently debating between buying a g0602 and converting it, convert my current 12x36 or buying a premade solution such as the inturn or rapidturn.

I like the idea of a stand alone lathe, Seems like the switch from mill to lathe mode for the pcnc1100 isn't as nice as i hoped.

Ahh, that makes more sense.

That the cost comparison would really be between your converted lathe and the SPL15, rather than the RapidTurn.

Separate lathe appeals to me more as well. Setting up and taking down always seems to take more time than cutting.

Still, $2200 to get CNC lathe capabilities is very attractive. My manual lathe takes up enough space without throwing a cnc lathe into the shop as well.

...Can anyone confirm that the Pathpilot Lathe that comes with Rapidturn will accommodate using the mill Y axis for gang tooling. This seems key to allow automatic accurate CNC production turning.

No.

The RapidTurn mounts on the mill table. The cutting tools mount to the spindle nose using the "rapid turn toolpost stabilizer". No idea if it supports gang tooling (you can only catch brief glimpses of it in the video). You can't mount tools to the table, because then the mill can't reposition them relative to the headstock (which is also fastened to the table). Watch the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTcBV90zReo