[Kawgomoo]

Hello all.

I am trying to connect a Femco Durga 25e lathe to single phase power supply.

Would like to know which of the 3 legs to connect the "wild" leg from the rotary phase converter.

As i understand you want to connect the control legs to the house legs, and the generated leg to the remaining spot.

I have no manuals for the machine, electrical or otherwise.

Need help identifying which leg to connect where.

Have no experience in this area, all help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
Brandon

[the_gentlegiant]

Follow the wires inside the machine from the main on off switch. You will notice that two of the three wires will if not immediately, but eventually end up at a control transformer and one will not. Connect your single phase lines to the two that make it to the transformer and connect the manufactured leg out of your phase convertor to the remaining terminal. Pay attention after you start the machine for the first time. Check that the rotation of coolant pumps and or reduction gear oil pumps are spinning in the proper direction. Many times the CNC control will spin the spindle in the proper direction regardless of what happens elsewhere with other machine motors. If ancillary motors are running backwards, stop immediately and swap the position of your two single phase wires. This will correct that rotation problem.

[Kawgomoo]

Thank you kindly sir.

I believe the "blue" wire or "T" is the one that traces back to not going to the transformer.

Good advice on the pumps running backwards, was so caught up in other worries that had slipped my mind.

I am running to the home store for some ring terminals and then will proceed. Will keep you guys updated.




Not sure why it flipped the picture?

Thanks!

[Kawgomoo]

Forging ahead.

The incoming red and white power wires have R and S tapped into them, blue has nothing.

the transformer only has R and S wires on top of it, so i suppose we are good to go there.

What is the best way to quickly verify i have the pumps spinning in the correct direction? I do not want to damage anything.

Thanks again

[the_gentlegiant]

To start I'd like to say that's a well kept cabinet. Things look in order and not all torn apart. This leads me to believe this machine is not a lemon and has, for the most part, kept running. You never know of course, but an orderly magnetics cabinet is a good sign. Consider yourself lucky.

Anyway... that's off subject. Hard to see for sure, but yes it looks like the blue wire is your phase convertor wire. Those smaller leads coming off the other two is a sign they're on their way to a transformer somewhere. Coolant pump and gear box pumps will generally have an arrow or some other indication as to their natural rotation direction. Sometimes an arrow or half arrow is cast into the housing or even as simple as a sticker. Another check of course is if you have coolant delivery and oil to your gearbox, if installed, or visible oil from its return tube. A very important pump to keep an eye on at first start is your way oil timer. Usually these will only run during spindle rotation. So once you've got the rest of the machine up and running, pay close attention to the fact that your way oil pump is indeed cycling.

[Kawgomoo]

I appreciate your assistance.

The converter i have on hand is not large enough to start the spindle, so i won't be running that until the 40hp arrives.

Right now i am just trying to confirm functionality of what i can.

So far i have powered it up briefly. The fans inside the cabinet come on. But i am not seeing any hydraulic pressure yet.

The e-stop button on the machine is depressed. I will power it on and release the estop and see what happens.

So far no magic smoke has been let out of the machine, so that is good.

This machine was acquired when a local business bought out another manufacture. They had it hooked it, but just sitting for years. They new shop manager couldn't swear to me they had ever made a part on it {though its seen plenty of use, i assure you. not realizing it at the time, but the tail stock is missing :-/ }

[Kawgomoo]

This is the machine i am getting running. The CRT is coming on line, but no pump noise. Gauges on front aren't showing any pressure. Im going to recheck all fluid levels and then flip phases.

Can not find any visual indicator that things are supposed to turn this a way. No exposed shafts.

Seems promising thus far. Still trying to wrap my head around it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX_k_nMhhnA

[the_gentlegiant]

"Sitting for years" is like anything else... use it or lose it. I hope for your sake that things come alive and start making all the right noises again once they're run in and loosened up again. Good to hear you're starting it up a little at a time. Personally I've never run a CNC machine off of a rotary phase convertor. When I got my first one I went out and bought a digital phase convertor from Phase Perfect. Trust me... I am not a sales person for that company. It was expensive. I don't exactly remember, but somewhere around 2500 bucks for 10 horse. Yet it never gave me a stitch of trouble. Handles regenerative breaking without even blinking an eye. Quite too when the fans are not running. Can't tell you how great it was to go outside the garage when the machine was running and watch the power meter run in reverse during breaking. Take that NSP! (The local power company.) Anyway... glad to help you get the correct wires hooked up to the right terminals. Sound like you've got it on track and taking it slow.

[Kawgomoo]

Found the hydraulic pump, took the cover off the machine so i could see it.

You have to hit the start button twice to get the hydraulic pump to start after the computer comes online.

Once i realized that, i watched the fan to verify it was turning. No pressure on the gauges, and nothing in the return lines. {they are clear}

Flipped my two "house" legs and started it back up. The pressure gauge on the filter reads close to, if not, zero. But the two pressure gauges on the front of the machine are showing pressure levels "in the green", as well as i can see fluid in the return.

Also if i hit the pedal for the tail stock, which isn't there, i can see the hose thats looped jumped so i figure that system is GTG.

I have yet to get anything to move around however, and at start up i get this rather discouraging message.

Hopefully this can be resolved, as this isn't exactly my idea of "operable" if its got a fried servo/drive! Bah!

lol. Let the adventure begin!

p.s. i was also looking at the phase perfect, very expensive at about 4800 bucks for the 20hp unit. i want to make sure this lathe will run before i drop that sort of cash!

[the_gentlegiant]

That's a normal startup screen, but "not ready" means for me that your E-stop is not released. If not that I'm not sure where to lead you. Those" in the green" pressure gages are a good sign. It 's late here so I'm done for the day. You're getting there. People sell machines for both good and bad reasons. Our job as second handers is to find out where they went wrong and fix it without breaking the bank. Still there are wins and losses. The used market is always that way. Hopefully you've got a win that just hasn't been completely figured out yet.

[Kawgomoo]

E stop is released.

late here as well, dinner time and its been a long day.

Will get back after it in the morning.

It wasn't terribly expensive, more of a tinkerers project. Ive had good and bad machines, just hope to get this up and moving around without breaking the bank.

Not having the manuals doesn't help.....So it looks like thats my next project. Finding documentation.

[Kawgomoo]

Well, i have gotten further than i thought i would.

To my surprise, even with my small phase converter the spindle started easily.

I was able to get the X and Y axis to move using the directional arrows. But cannot get the Z to move using the hand wheel. I suspect a dirty contact in the switch.

This is where I've stopped for the night. Will get back at it tomorrow.

Manuals! Going to need those! lol.

https://youtu.be/YbC2vvDq34Q

[the_gentlegiant]

Thinking more about your "Not Ready" message and remembered that it will show up if you don't have air pressure to the machine. Seems you've got it running so you must have found something. I'm pretty sure that's a 2 axis lathe so you won't have a Y axis. I also see only two cables coming out of your servo drive so that adds to my belief of only 2 axis.

I'm sure there are people running CNC machines on rotary phase convertors. Just not sure how well they work. It was always my impression that you always had to start the biggest motor you are using first, then smaller and smaller after that. How would one control this running a CNC machine in say a production run? Motors are turning on and off constantly. At least the spindle. I do know that the more 3 phase motors running at the same time, the better your single phase derived 3 phase system gets. I know the Phase Perfects are expensive. It hurt when I bought mine. But I never had any trouble and the machine always ran as it should. I'm in a 3 phase shop now but am saving mine for retirement when I end up back in a garage somewhere without 3phase. I'm sure I'll bring at least one CNC machine back home some day.

Good luck with that resurrection!

[Kawgomoo]

I have air pressure to the machine. The way lube oiler is low, and there is an alarm light for that. Need to figure out what kind of oil it takes.

Most of machine is single phase it seems, so theres no issue starting and stopping the servos and such.

The spindle drive has what amounts to a VFD, So as long as it has 3 legs of power coming it, it seems to have no trouble at all starting the spindle. And right now I'm using a 7.5hp rpc, nowhere near what the "experts" recommend. Sure, there is no load on it. But this RPC will NOT start my 5hp 16x40 manual lathe. That same lathe has a 10hp VFD on it with single phase going in and starts easily now.

i don't know how they achieve the 20hp rating, but i can assure you starting this lathe is nothing like starting a 20hp motor just sitting on the shop floor. The electronics inside are taking considerable load off my RPC allowing it to hum along nicely.

I will upgrade my RPC, but now I'm second guessing a 40hp like people recommend, and just doing a 20hp. I mean, its working now, and thats only a 7.5hp 2.5x increase should be plenty id imagine, I'm never going to run it that hard. I work with mainly plastic.

[chich2]

Brandon,
I stumbled onto your thread so I thought I would post my replies to you here instead of via email so more people can share the information.
Im far from home at the moment so cant give you exact details but this is what I did when I got my Femco Durga 25-E and what i strongly suggest you do.

Very first thing to do as a bare minimum is to fully power the machine up. Then make a copy of your machine parameters and diagnostic.
Press the "Param/Diag" button on your key pad. This will make the machine display the "Parameters" menu. Pressing it again i think dispays the "Diagnostic" menu. And depending on your model of control pressing it again will display the ladder diagram in real time.

So go to your Parameters menu. It should say Param or Parameters on the screen so your in the right spot.
Get a camera and take a photo of the first page. View your phot and ensure you can clearly read all the information in it. Then I can't remember if you go page down or down arrow to the next page and progressively photograph every parameter page. On my machine with a FANUC O-TC control, each page displays 2 colums of parameters. They will start at something like N0001 and mine goes all the way to N8299.
Photograph ALL of these pages.
Once thst is done, go to the Diagnostic page and photograph all those pages as well. At least you will have some sort of copy for your machine if things go bad after this.

In time when i get home i can guide you through how to upload these parameters and diagnostics directly from the lathe to a pc or laptop.

Next you should change the memory batteries as you dont know how old they are.

As explained in my emails the batteries can only be changed with the machine powered up or you'll loose the parameters rendering the cnc a haunting nightmare.
Power the machine up. (The first time I changed them I measured the voltage coming out of the old ones so i had some idea of what was being supplied by the old ones). Replace the batteries. Just hope you dont have a power outage while your changing them. While the old batteries are removed, inspect the battery terminals on the machine so they are clean and have made a good contact with the batteries. Once their changed and Before you power the machine down, measure the output of the battery pack terminals with a multimeter to ensure the battery compartment is actually working and supplying it's output. Then go around the front and you should see a battery warning light illuminated on your front control pannel. If you press "reset" on your keypad, the light should go off. If it doesnt then there is a problem with the battery connections. Do NOT power down until all this is ok.

I should also mention what the battery pack does.
On the cnc motherboard which is the main FANUC circuit board down the bottom, it has slots that all the other circuit boards slot into depending on what is required by the machine tool builder. For example the servo controll board that at outputs signals to the servo drive. Theres a graphics or display board that drives the display monitor. Then there is the memory board. The memory board holds all the machine parameters that the machine needs to run. Without these parameters the machine wont run and believe me,,,, there's LOT's of them. The battery pack is there to supply power to the memmory module while the machine is powered down. SO If you were to remove the wrong connector off the memory board or motherboard or remove the batteries or interupt the supply of power from the batteries you could accidently loose the parameters. Just another friendly reminder not to fiddle with anything until we get your parameters uploaded. You will see plenty of requests from members here on cnczone asking for help with lost parameters and they will probably never get the machine running again.

I was quite paranoid about loosing my parameters when i got the machine so I photo graphed them the minute I powered the machine for the first time. Then I learnt how to make a data cable to connect to my laptop which I can guide you through. I also had to change some parameters to get the data link established and it all talking. Again all this info is at home and im not there. In time i will add all this info to my Femco durga thread.

I hope this has been helpfull and congrats on powering it up.
Oh P.S. I have 3 phase power connected to my lathe. 16 square millimeter conductors all the way from the National, power grid to my machine. The power draw and regen loads from my lathe loaded up are large enough to drag 415v down to 385volts under load and push up as high as 430v on regen (Australian 3 phase is 415 volt) (My spindle has a 2 speed gearbox)

Kind regards,
Chich

[Kawgomoo]

Thank you Chich!

I will get right on copying of the parameters!

Do you have any idea what kind of batteries it takes? It doesn't say on the outside, and i don't want to take the cover loose unless i have some good ones on hand.

I would like info on making the data cable whenever you get a chance. I have a couple RS232/DB5/Serial etc type of connectors that have a circuit board inside for making custom crossover cables, or changing the wire to pin pattern. Very handy! I assume something like this will be needed to get the pc to lathe connection working.

I am studying the copies of the manuals you sent me. There is much to learn, and you are correct that the manuals assume you know much already. Which i do not. I will keep studying and learning as much as i can, while looking forward to your reply concering the cable connection from lathe to pc.


Thank you very much!

[Kawgomoo]

Chich, does this look correct? CNC DNC Settings for Fanuc OT

[Kawgomoo]

Made some small progress with the machine. I was having a hard time following instructional video because my keypad was not registering key strokes.

I removed the membrane pad circuit board from the machine, and cleaned all the switches contact. It is not 100% perfect now, but i can at least get all the keys to register a stroke with a few pushes.

Now i just need to figure how to select machine programs through the machine control, and how to import and export settings and programs to my laptop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyGc0-gZfQ

[Kawgomoo]

I have made some progress!

Its been slow, for sure. There is just so much to learn its daunting in these early stages. But i feel as though i have at least turned a corner.

I wrote my first program on the machine today, not in MDI, but an actual program! woot! lol. It was very basic just a rapid and brief G90. But its something. To me it signifies a lot of hurdles in understanding, but ive just scratched the surface.

My biggest two issues now are getting my laptop talking to the Fanuc control.

And learning more about work offset. When i go into Offset-Workshift there is "Shift" and "Measurement" both with x/y coords. Im not fully understanding what these represent.

In lathe programming where is the standard place to set the X origin? Is X0 supposed to be the center of the part, or the O.D.?

I got a Fanuc OT manual off eBay, and it makes mention of setting x and z zero off the face of the chuck, it seems to offer many possible options and I'm curious what is the "standard" accepted method that i should focus on learning at first.


Thanks!

[chich2]

I really wish I was near my machine as I would walk you through how to get started but the best I can do is from my very grey memory. Ill split this into several posts as im doing it from a mobile device which is a pain.

Turn on your machine so its ready to use. Hopefully your screen is displaying X and Z, NOT U, V or W. Now turn your selector switch to Rapid or Jog and move each axis into a position away from the limits and home switches. Look to make sure you aren't going to crash into aything. The machine has no idea of where the axis are when it's first powered up. Sure you see numbers in the display but those distances arent referenced to anything yet.
There are 2 coordinate systems in the machine. One coordinate system is the machines own coordinates U and V on a lathe. They can be very bizare values. Think of them as a piece of grid paper laid over the machine work area that the machine kerps track of. So this grid needs to be slid around to reference it to the physical machine. So to do this we home the machine. Turn the selector switch to Zero and Press and hold the X+ direction arrow and keep holding it. The axis will rapid at what ever speed your rapid switch is set to until it triggers your limit switch at which point the axis will slow down and creep up to the home position. As it does this, watch the X values and you may see them take a huge jump when the machine home lights come on on your front panel. (My lathe has a red led on the front panel for each axis to show its In the zero / home position) Now hold down Z+ and drive it all the way until the Z axis stops moving and the zero light iluminates. Both axis are now homed to the machine you can set your selector to rapid and drive the turret to a safe place off the home switches.

So now your machine knows where it is in its own cordinates and can maintain them and its movements around this fixed grid very accurately.
The user however is a different story. We need to move our own grid for things like the Z zero position. We always have one job is sticking out of the chuck longer or shorter than the last job. So our grid needs to be shifted in relation to the machines grid. Our cordinate system is the coordinates you see displayed in the X and Z on your screen. Another reason for this second coodinate system is that each tool in your turret Is a different X and Z length and there are tool offsets in a stored library that the machine uses to offset the turret against our grid it referenced machine cordinates.

This is information on how to home and why its done.

Which reminds me..... Bugger..... You should set up your reference tool first before too much more or I could accidently cause you to crash your machine. That'll be my next post.




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