[sayitaintjonas]

Hey folks! Sorry to just bust into this forum and start asking questions before I've properly lurked for a few weeks, but I'm in the midst of a time sensitive decision.
I have been saving to buy a CNC Router Parts CRP4896 and just as I was about to pull the trigger, an opportunity to purchase a 15 year old Warthog machine fell in my lap for not much more than I would spend on the kit. The Warthog is completely turn key, includes a 5hp spindle, a vacuum table, 3 phase converter, and has already been converted to use Mach3. It kind of sounds like a no brainer, but I 'm not sure if I should be concerned with the age of the machine. Basically, I just wanted to get the advice of some more seasoned folks. What do you guys think?

[wizard]

Not familiar with the Warthog at all. If the frame is considerably more robust I'd go with the commercial machine even if it needs a few parts. In simple terms a more robust machine or more specifically a stiffer machine, means more flexibility in how you use it.

The big gotcha here is the electronics. Old stuff can be unsupported and at times down right flaky. Do not assume that the electronics are OK or even up to modern standards. You mention Mach3 but didn't indicate any specifics with respect to hardware.

Also find out what the reason for the sale is. If it is being replaced in a plant it MIGHT have old age issues. The "might" is in capitals because you don't know unless you ask and even then you might not get an honest answer. You really need to do a complete machine tool inspection when buying used. Otherwise you don't want to pay more than scrap iron prices minus the cost of moving and installing the machine.

[awerby]

Can you see the thing run? Or is it being sold as-is, with no guarantees? If it's running well on a reasonably current computer, if it's got a good 3-phase spindle with VFD and they're willing to warrant it runs for a year, then it might be worth as much as the kit you were looking at. But from what I've read, those machines used a complicated proprietary motion-control system and the company that made it is long gone. If it's not running now, or not running well, then Wizard is right - it's scrap. It sounds like this one is somewhere in between; bargain hard and you might get it cheaply enough to make it a good deal. Here's an old thread about them: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/commer...rum-posts.html

[wizard]

I hope I didn't overstate my case. If the super structure of the machine is solid a machine tool rebuild might be a good path to follow. If one is prepared to build a kit out of aluminum extrusions rebuilding a machine made of iron or steel certainly has its positives.

A rebuild can leave you with a far more capable machine while keeping costs under control. It still comes back to this issue of what to pay for the machine. If the machine isn't operational I fall back to the idea that it is scrap metal pricing minus transportation costs.

The interesting thing here is that a lot of old tools, lathes for example, end up being scrapped because no one want to pay the transportation costs. Sad but true. It is one of the reasons large lathes can be had so cheap.

[sayitaintjonas]

Hey guys, thank you both for your replies. I really like the idea of a stronger machine that is already configured and has so many extras included with it. The owner won't give me a guarantee, but I do plan on stopping by to see it run within the next couple days. Luckily, he lives 20 minutes from me, so transportation costs shouldn't be too bad I hope. If I bargain hard, I might be able to get this machine for $8k. At that price though, I could have a pretty nice CRP9648Pro with a router. I guess my biggest concern with this machine is in its 3d carving abilities. I haven't turned up a lot of information from the Warthog forum on that issue though.
I've included some pictures of the machine.

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[ger21]

I think that $8,000 is way too high for that machine, especially if the spindle is 15 years old.
I don't think it's that great of a machine.

I see V bearings on the gantry. Are they the same on all axis?
If so, I would buy the new CNCRP Pro with linear rails.

[RicknBeachcrest]

My vote would also be for a new CNCRP Pro. Ahren has excellent customer support and has been in the business for a while now..

As far as the used machine,
I would be curious what drive mechanism is used, especially on the Y axis. I would guess rack and pinion. Definitely check the back lash. Also are servos or steppers used?

[wizard]

Frankly for 8 grand I was expecting much more. Your pictures are less than optimal but that gantry looks flimsy especially in the context of $8K. I look at the gantry first because that is a common weak point in a machine. However it looks like the machine was setup with a vacuum table which has me wondering if the kit includes vacuum pumps and control valves.

While the details are limited I'm pretty sure this will be a bad deal. However do look it over carefully, it is always possible we are missing something. Frankly when you mentioned commercial machine I was thinking a lot more upscale thus a machine worth rebuilding. This machine on the other hand seems oddly built, I have to wonder if it is ever able to use all the horsepower the spindle is suppose to supply.

Tread carefully here.