[BrendaEM]

How is Mach 4?

Can it do everything Mach 3 could?

Is Mach 4 complete?

Is Mach 4 stable?

Thanks,
BrendaEM

[A_Camera]

How is Mach 4?

Probably OK, but at a much higher price.

Can it do everything Mach 3 could?

Most probably not. I would guess that some useful features are removed, or perhaps solved a different way so that users of Mach3 must modify their work flow or configurations.

Is Mach 4 complete?

Is Mach 4 stable?

What is the definition of "complete" and "stable"? Even Mach3 has it's weaker moments and every software needs an update now and then.

The way I see the biggest disadvantage of Mach4 vs. Mach3 is the price. It is in my opinion too expensive, so for me there is no interest in it. If I have to buy a new license I might as well try something else, like UCCNC.

[CitizenOfDreams]

The way I see the biggest disadvantage of Mach4 vs. Mach3 is the price. It is in my opinion too expensive, so for me there is no interest in it. If I have to buy a new license I might as well try something else, like UCCNC.

I agree. Just don't see myself paying another $200 for a different flavor of a program I have already bought. (Not to mention the extra $25 for parallel port support). Might as well go for "something completely different".

[A_Camera]

I agree. Just don't see myself paying another $200 for a different flavor of a program I have already bought. (Not to mention the extra $25 for parallel port support). Might as well go for "something completely different".

$200 is one thing, that is a fully acceptable price, but the license conditions are totally unacceptable according to me. It is one license per computer it is installed on, so even though I only have one CNC, I can not just plug it in to any of my computers, depending on what I want to do, developing something new to test the G-code air milling, or drawing the work, or milling for real, I would need to buy a license for each of my computers. Also, if I am not wrong, the license is connected to the serial number of the computer so one can no longer just change computer hardware, buy a new computer and carry on using Mach after installation. I think their new license conditions are just crazy. There is no way I buy that software under such license conditions.

[bozidar22]

$200 is one thing, that is a fully acceptable price, but the license conditions are totally unacceptable according to me. It is one license per computer it is installed on, so even though I only have one CNC, I can not just plug it in to any of my computers, depending on what I want to do, developing something new to test the G-code air milling, or drawing the work, or milling for real, I would need to buy a license for each of my computers. Also, if I am not wrong, the license is connected to the serial number of the computer so one can no longer just change computer hardware, buy a new computer and carry on using Mach after installation. I think their new license conditions are just crazy. There is no way I buy that software under such license conditions.

At a cabinfever seminar i remember the mach guys talking about how piracy was a big issue with mach3. My guess is thats why the license is linked and limited to a certain number of computers.

[A_Camera]

At a cabinfever seminar i remember the mach guys talking about how piracy was a big issue with mach3. My guess is thats why the license is linked and limited to a certain number of computers.

That's a crazy attitude. People who use pirated software will not buy Mach4, they will do their best to find a pirated copy. Period. People who don't use pirated copies will not buy Mach4 because of the uncertainties and the nuisances it cause with the limitations on licensing. It would be MUCH better if it was sold with hardware dongle, or a smart software dongle, which would NOT lock the license to a specific computer hardware and should NOT limit commercial use.

...in the meantime, since I posted last time in this thread, I bought a UC300ETH with UCCNC. I know now that Mach4 is out of my game for me and is no longer something I consider ever buying. Mach3 and UCCNC is all I ever need... well, "ever" is a very long time, but today I can't really see to ever wanting it and definitely not until the license conditions are not changed.

[ger21]

Probably OK, but at a much higher price.

$25 is much higher?

Can it do everything Mach 3 could?

Is Mach 4 complete?

No, it's not complete.

Eventually, it will do more than Mach3, but right now, probably not.

$200 is one thing, that is a fully acceptable price, but the license conditions are totally unacceptable according to me. It is one license per computer it is installed on, so even though I only have one CNC, I can not just plug it in to any of my computers, depending on what I want to do, developing something new to test the G-code air milling, or drawing the work, or milling for real, I would need to buy a license for each of my computers.

You can generate your own license codes, and I believe you can have 5-7 licenses active at any one time, so you can put it on multiple computers.
If you change PC's, you just generate a new license.
The licensing is really no different than Mach3 for hobbyist. You just generate a different license code for each PC, rather than use the same license file.
While I haven't used Mach4 on a machine, I've had a license for two years, and have installed it on multiple PC's.

[A_Camera]

$25 is much higher?


No, it's not complete.

Eventually, it will do more than Mach3, but right now, probably not.




You can generate your own license codes, and I believe you can have 5-7 licenses active at any one time, so you can put it on multiple computers.
If you change PC's, you just generate a new license.
The licensing is really no different than Mach3 for hobbyist. You just generate a different license code for each PC, rather than use the same license file.
While I haven't used Mach4 on a machine, I've had a license for two years, and have installed it on multiple PC's.

Perhaps I misunderstood the license key information when I looked at it, or I read the following also, which made me arrive to the conclusion that it is indeed considerably more expensive than Mach3.

From Mach4 - Newfangled Solutions

marketed toward those interested in using CNC machinery for their own personal /non-business use

My understanding is that it would not allow you to sell anything at all if you have a Hobby license, so even if you don't run a big commercial shop, just financing your hobby and some extras, you are not allowed to use the the Hobby version. So it is actually $825 extra for a version which I can't see any benefits from.

[Bob La Londe]

Perhaps I misunderstood the license key information when I looked at it, or I read the following also, which made me arrive to the conclusion that it is indeed considerably more expensive than Mach3.

From Mach4 - Newfangled Solutions



My understanding is that it would not allow you to sell anything at all if you have a Hobby license, so even if you don't run a big commercial shop, just financing your hobby and some extras, you are not allowed to use the the Hobby version. So it is actually $825 extra for a version which I can't see any benefits from.

I got the same understanding from reading it, so I asked the guys over there and they said I could run my business machines with it the same way I use Mach 3 now.

[asuratman]

Gerry,
Do you recommend to purchase mach4 now or wait?

[ger21]

I haven't really looked at Mach4 at all in the last year, so I don't really know the current state.

I purchased a license 2 years ago, but have no plans to ever use Mach4 as of right now.

My understanding is that it would not allow you to sell anything at all if you have a Hobby license, so even if you don't run a big commercial shop, just financing your hobby and some extras, you are not allowed to use the the Hobby version. So it is actually $825 extra for a version which I can't see any benefits from.

Artsoft has stated multiple times on that the Mach4 hobby license is basically the same as the Mach3 license. You don't have to buy the Industrial version if you're making money.
I've brought up the issue of the wording on the website, and in their opinion there was no need to change it, even though imo it's completely different than their explanation.

[MachineRising]

I haven't really looked at Mach4 at all in the last year, so I don't really know the current state.

I purchased a license 2 years ago, but have no plans to ever use Mach4 as of right now.



Artsoft has stated multiple times on that the Mach4 hobby license is basically the same as the Mach3 license. You don't have to buy the Industrial version if you're making money.
I've brought up the issue of the wording on the website, and in their opinion there was no need to change it, even though imo it's completely different than their explanation.

Has that changed? Are you still not using Mach4?

[ger21]

Has that changed? Are you still not using Mach4?

No. As I said, I have no plan to ever use it. There are just a lot of things I don't like about it.

but I think that one major reason why Mach3 became so widely spread was the fact the the license key was cracked and the cracked software was included in many cheap kits.

That's why it continues to be so popular. That and the fact that companies like CNC Router Parts still prefers Mach3 over Mach4.
Artsoft probably still sells copies of Mach3 than Mach4, even though it's been an abandoned product for 5 years. They can't afford to stop selling their inferior product, because nobody likes their new improved version.

The reason Mach3 became so popular, is because it was the only viable Windows based hobby control for a looong time.

[MachineRising]

I'm building a 4 axis router. The long axis is currently slated to slave two motors. The forth axis will be in the form of a lathe. What would be your solution for this. Cost is a serious consideration, but not at the expense of acceptable performance and quality. I have 3 Teknic 3734 servo motors from an industrial robot I designed years ago. The drivers use step and direction, like stepper motors.

[robertspark]

What do you want to do with the 4th axis?

Do you intend to use it as an indexing axis?

Or do you intend to rotary machine, such as a lathe operation?

I would recommend uccnc with a uc300eth motion controller.

Breakout board wise I use a ub1 from cncroom (Thailand). But can drive now offer the UCBB which is a lower cost option than the ub1 which offers a lot more)

http://cncdrive.com/UCBB.html

At the moment uccnc does not do rotary motion all axis are treated as linear.

Centroid I have never used, but I'd suggest asking a few questions on their forum and see what sort of a response you get (I asked a couple of questions and seemed to be given the short shift.... So I shifted onwards....). The acrorn seems reasonable, but the add-on software seems expensive as a package cost.

It also depends what you are using now or familiar with?

If you get annoyed with uccnc (not that I can see it) but you can flip back to mach3 or mach4 if you already have those licences at no cost

[daniellyall]

Ger it's still not there enough yet, there are still a couple of things missing what is stopping me using it

[CitizenOfDreams]

Those of you who have used both Mach3 and Mach4, can you tell us In a few words what has improved (or going to be improved) in Mach4? What exactly my machine will be doing better if I upgrade to Mach4?

[magicniner]

I'm going to try Mach4 once they finish it, at the moment it's in Beta in all but name, they're charging for a license so you can report bugs and help them finish it, but that's been going nowhere fairly fast for years now!

[CNCMAN172]

I have been using MACH3 for probably 15 years, shortly after it came out and it has been an amazing piece of software. Art really revolutionized the industry especially on the hobby front with his software. Are there issues with MACH3 absolutely, they stopped providing updates and there are some bugs and anyone who has used it very long has all encountered those unexpected crashes along the way. Still for the price I have been able to make some pretty cool presents and in my case it really has just been a hobby. I waited a very long time for MACH4 to come out it was promised for years and finally appeared a couple years ago in a limited form. I have been playing with it for the last year trying to get one of my machines to do all the stuff that it did under Mach3, since I really do like the screen set on MACH4 much more than Mach3. They claim to have rewritten about 95% of all the code in MACH4, so many bugs have been incorporated in the new version. The people over at newfangled solutions are working to get everything working but releases take more than than back in the days when Art was the primary developer. Probably the biggest issue on MACH4 is the plugin support. There are a hand full of plugins for motion controllers. I have the ESS, which has a plugin that works it has been updated three times since the first version was released for MACH4. The ESS is pretty stable under MACH4. They also have Art's parallel port plugin which costs $25. They also have plugins for expensive motion controllers from Vital Systems, PMDX, Polab Pokeys device, and another one from CNC4PC. Just in the last couple weeks they released the Galil motion controller plugin for another $100. So as you can see they are starting to add more support for motion controllers.

The new Newfangled Solutions developers have been focused on the commercial side, not a surprise as there is more money on that side. Several users do have basic machines running with MACH4 and some are using them daily. I have all the motion stuff working with the ESS, homing, limits, spindle and they all work great. My biggest hurdle was getting my pendant to work, which is based on a Pokeys56U device, which works perfect under MACH3. Under Mach4 the latest plugins from POLABS are very buggy and their plugin corrupts the code you put inside your pokey device. They have their own pokeys motion controller called 57PokeysCNC which has a plugin for MACH4. Many people have reported lots of bugs, several videos up on youtube.

The people on the forum who have been using machines with no issues tend to be the ones with the higher end motion controllers like Vital Systems, they apparently are rock solid with MACH4, but the cost to play with that hardware is pretty high. I also understand the parallel port plugin from Art works just fine. I have not purchased my MACH4 licenses but will once the last few hurdles get solved. They guys over at Newfangled Solutions are doing their best to make the new platform solid and with many bells and whistles. Well not no many are available right now. You also will have some new challenges, since they new structure requires you to write code in a new language called LUA. This happens to be a deal breaker for many people, but it is really close to "C" so it is not that difficult to learn and there are many examples provided with the software.

Probably my biggest complaint about MACH4 is the lack of documentation. If you look at the manuals for MACH3 they are huge and very detailed with many examples on how to hook up things write custom code, etc. Just a very well done set of documentation. The documentation for MACH4 looks like a very early draft. Example go to the section on modbus, it is all blank. You will not find an example of how to hook up a Hitachi VFD to a spindle using modbus anywhere, yet some people have it working. Hooking up a pendant, again if you search you will find some examples that users have provided on the forum but nothing in the manuals. If you want to have a machine with MACH4 is is not an easy exercise, you have to work at it to get things to work. I would stay there are many a dozen or so what I would call extremely knowledgeable users. There could be many more who do not participate on the forums.

The only advise I could give you is to download the software and play with it on your own hardware and then decide. The learning curve on anything new is always a challenge, but I think you might like much of what you find in the MACH4 software. This is just my two cents others mileage might vary.

Russ

[magicniner]

The people on the forum who have been using machines with no issues tend to be the ones with the higher end motion controllers like Vital Systems,

The pricing for a Mach4 license plus one of those is close to that of a commercial grade, stand alone machine controller from China, I bought Mach3 before they stopped support and development, I'll be going to stand alone controllers rather than Mach4,

- Nick