[jay_dizzle]

okuma ma650 osp200m

mill wont retract after drilling a hole, it just sits there, spindle running, no alarms, green light on, just sitting.

tried using different drill cycles and didnt change anything

tried writing a sub routine to avoid using any drill cycles, same thing.

its as if the machine will not rapid after a long feed movement

operation: boring out a hole from 26mm to 27mm in qt400
108rpm .005"/rev


*also had an alarm yesterday for no apparent reason : 1159 MCS power unit overload
this alarm happened while attempting to drill the same holes, spindle load never more than approx %20

[OkumaWiz]

Check your diff value on the AXIS page to see if it has reached the target point. The load will increase as it tries to reach it, but in the case of a mechanical stoppage, it cannot and will not fault right away if the diff value is not very large, but will give the 1159 alarm if the load stays high for too long.

Try again with a positive z offset and see if it retracts while cutting air.

Best regards,

[budgieW]

What does the program look like?

[jay_dizzle]

What does the program look like?

i have programmed it multiple ways. the origional program was g81 ect ect, then we tried some variations with peck drilling, i even went as far as programming a "long hand" drilling cycle and calling it from a sub routine. same result.

also, it doesnt get stuck on every hole. it just gets stuck at random...

[jay_dizzle]

this problem seems to be rpm related, the program has multiple drills and feed mills that all function as they should.
the one tool that is causing the problem runs at a considerably lower rpm than the rest, AND as i increase the rpm of said tool, the eror seems to be less frequent.

[deadlykitten]

it may be the rpm ... the 1st time you post your problem i realized that is not the code, but something else

now, it just ring a bell

if rpm is low, than :
... if effort is high, motors can not reach the "sweet" zone, thus tool stops, or
... if effort is low during feed, effort may increase near end point because of next move, on Z+, maybe correlated with a LM, but i am not sure of this, since mill reaction time is >1sec, or
... next block is not executed, because current comand is executed without confirmation - i hit in this case a few days ago : thus, the spindle rotates at desired rpm, but cnc does not compute next code line

however, if you wish, share some cutting specs for this tool; if it runs after another, please share data also for previous tool / kindly !

[jay_dizzle]

operation: boring out a hole from 26mm to 27mm in qt400,108rpm .005"/rev 12% spindle load, neutral spindle load for all other axis during operation

drill previous to 26mm, 672 rpm, .002"/rev

endmill previous 3/4" dia. 1100rpm 6.6ipm

[deadlykitten]

however, if you wish, share some cutting specs for this tool; if it runs after another, please share data also for previous tool / kindly !

108 o/min x 0.005 x 25.4 mm/o = 108 o/min x 0.127 mm/o

increase rpm; check motor diagram; sweet zone : 187..750 rpm + 1271 .. 6000 rpm

carefull with rpm between 750 .. 1271, it seems the 2nd round wiring pumps in, and there is a loss of power

[jay_dizzle]

really? can you eplain that math to me? this is all new. (no abbreviations)

[deadlykitten]

drill previous to 26mm, 672 rpm, .002"/rev

increase feed; i do not know what to say about rpm, because i would need material type, hardness, tool type, holder

endmill previous 3/4" dia. 1100rpm 6.6ipm

at 1100rpm you are between gears sweet zone / if available torque si ok, just leave it like this

[jay_dizzle]

increase feed; i do not know what to say about rpm, because i would need material type, hardness, tool type, holder



at 1100rpm you are between gears sweet zone / if available torque si ok, just leave it like this

sorry, i was being unclear. no other tools are giving this problem, only the first one. i thought you wanted other tool data for troubleshooting reasons.

[deadlykitten]

hy, your motor diagram should look like the attached one; search 4 yours, since same cnc may be delivered with different engines

i hit a similar case a few months ago, and mr Wizard enlighted me back than

cnc's are for high rpm,low feed,low ae-ap, compared to a clasical machine, that is for low rpm,low-high feed,big ae-ap

cnc vs clasic : speed vs power

this is especially for roughing : avoid big tools with low rpm, and use instead little & fast ones

sorry, i was being unclear. no other tools are giving this problem, only the first one. i thought you wanted other tool data for troubleshooting reasons

i think some of your cutting specs are low, but i can not tell 4 sure since i can't see your setup

really? can you eplain that math to me? this is all new. (no abbreviations)

i am a milimiter guy

if a spindle rotates at 250rpm, and feed is 0.12 mm/rotation, than this means 250 x 0.12 = 30 milimeters/minute

thus 250 [rot/min] x 12 [mm /rot] = 30 [ rot/min x mm/rot ] = 30 [ 1/min x mm/1 ] = 30 [ mm/min ]

i like to replace "rot" with "o", so : 250 [ o / min ] x 12 [ mm / o ] = 30 [ mm / min ]

ouput rot :
... symbol : n
... unit for mechanics : rotations per minute > rpm
... unit ISO : w / s

ouput feed :
... symbol : f of F
... metric system :
...... unit for mechanics, for f : milimeters per rotation > mm/rot or mm/rev
...... unit for mechanics, for F : milimeters per minute > mm/min
...... unit ISO : same as for speed : m / s
...... n x f = F > n [ rot/min ] x f [ mm/rot ] = F [ mm/min ]
... inches system
...... f : inches per rotation > "/rot or "/rev
...... F : inches per minute > "/min
...... ISO is replaced with something else; maybe ANSI ?
...... n x f = F > n [ rot/min ] x f [ "/rot ] = F [ "/min ]

[deadlykitten]

really? can you eplain that math to me? this is all new. (no abbreviations)

and 1 more thing : all cutting specs means rpm, feed and depth ( n , f / F / fz * z , t / ap / ae )

... n is generally delivered by V [ M/min ] or SFM
... f and t are generally recomended

there are different ways to use those numbers :
... you may desire for a specific feed on a specific depth, and after, adjust the rpm
... you may desire for a specific rpm, and after, adjust feed and depth
... you may use n1f1t1, and after change to n2f2t2 :
...... changes in feed : example: when tool enters inside a material, so during a transition zone, between "air" and "material", generally, tools are vibrating more in this area, and are more likely to break, comparing to cutting inside the material
...... changes in rpm : example a long tool enters after a shorter one, and rpm is reduced until this tool reaches the clearance point
...... changes in depth : best example is threads; generally, such changes are made to deliver constant cutting effort during the entire operation; for milling, this technique means "constant chip volume/time", and is programed using special tecniques, like "adaptive functions (okuma)", "dynamic milling (mastermcam)", etc ...

[Superman]

Jay_Dizzle
Kitty is going a little overboard...... wants to know how you work... instead of asking the right questions

the control... you mean OSP P200-M....not OSP200 this is a very early control
When the cycle is "paused"..... is there any values in the Distance-to-go page ? ( ie Has it reached correct depth ? )
- is there value for it to return to the (R) retract plane
- what is the machine's retract rate for drill cycles.....G0 or G1.....? ( ie Does it rapid out or feed out fast ? which over-ride knob controls the retract rate ? )
- which G0/G1 is active on the status page
- Is it peculiar to a certain canned cycle ? G81 G82 G73 or G83

Put up the code segments for all of that tool ( that you have tried )

operation: boring out a hole from 26mm to 27mm in qt400
108rpm .005"/rev

PS.... boring is not drilling

QT400 shows up as "Quenched & Tempered steel plate"..... or a Chinese cast iron
Which one ?....& what tool type are you using ?....I hope not a plain HSS

[deadlykitten]

hy superman

Does it rapid out or feed out fast ? which over-ride knob controls the retract rate ?

please, when using a drill cycle, how can i "out" on feed, instead of rapid ? i write the code line by line for this, and code get's too long

also, after a "feed out" can i "feed in" ? thus to retract&re-enter not in rapid, but slower ?

Kitty is going a little overboard...... wants to know how you work... instead of asking the right questions

if i struggle, than one day i will give answers just like you

[Superman]

hy superman



please, when using a drill cycle, how can i "out" on feed, instead of rapid ? i write the code line by line for this, and code get's too long

also, after a "feed out" can i "feed in" ? thus to retract&re-enter not in rapid, but slower ?



if i struggle, than one day i will give answers just like you

Go away Kitty & RTFM... & stop hijacking threads

[deadlykitten]

Go away Kitty & RTFM... & stop hijacking threads

(chair)