[kentavv]

I don't think anyone has asked this yet... but it is relevant to us all. Given the original IH closed their doors what might the new IH do differently to compete? Should they target the hobbiest or the industrial groups more? Is there something in the design that could be improved to stand apart? Did the DIY approach of IH scare away too many people? While our comments are likely speculation perhaps someone will have a great insight that might help the new owners.

[Runner4404spd]

personally after trying to futz with the cnc conversion that i built, i'm almost reluctant to install the cnc kit from IH. mind you i did buy it and it will be running, but there is something nice about just setting it up on a stand and then turning the power on.

however, i did buy it because i like the faster speeds and do believe that the servo system in the long run is far supperior to steppers. i do look forward to getting it up and running and soon, hopefully.

[bohica]

Wildcat,

Speaking from ongoing experience in a competitive and cutthroat market, there were several factors in the demise of IH.

First let me say I think they had a superior product. But DYI is just not for everyone. Many do not have the skills or equipment for this. For me, no big deal, I have enjoyed the process. But DYI just limits the market too much. The majority want a finished, plug and play product.

The new owner will almost have to have an assembled product. And here, volumn is the key. In order to offer these at a competive price, you have to have tooling and an assembly line. And lots of orders. Or very deep pockets.

Yea, there could be several improvements to the existing mill. If I were doing it, I certainly would attempt to buy the mill without all of the garbage (handles, acme screws and fittings etc) that we have to take off and discard. In fact, just the major castings with gibs. Probably dump all of the gears in the head and install a new spindle with a belt drive 3400 rpm motor.
Some aspect of the casting could be more CNC specific and certainly better QC would help as well.

The new owners already have the major element for differentation; Aaron's design for the servos and mounts. Nothing like it on the market today in this price range. Couple this with a finished as well as a DYI, and they could be off to the races. In essence, you look at what the competition offers and offer something better and/or different. This is a very successful strategy based on my experience.

Been there, done that!

[jdelaney44]

I have some IH limit switches. These are great designs, but they had a couple flaws & required a couple of small mods to make them totally reliable. Still worth the asking price.

I don't see them on the new site. Too bad. I think this was one of Aaronn's first products. Maybe they should have stuck with a limited product line. Maybe the new owners have figured that out and are just sticking with the retro kit and the converted mill.

I agree, most folks want the whole thing done and ready to go.

Best,
John

[davo727]

People nitpickin them to death didnt help. The chinese r45s are a very good value and with some tweeking they are good to go. But some people you cant please. They want a haas for $1800.00. I had a business on the side for a while and it can be hell dealing with the public. I hope the new owner does well with it and people give him a chance. Dave

[Zumba]

I think the problem is/was that the IH mill conversion was too far off from a bolt-on installation. For example, having to drill and tap holes in the saddle for the X-axis ballnut. This task is very easy for someone with a second mill. But if you've only got one mill, the one that's disassembled, that means doing it with handheld drill. Not exactly the slickest method.

I can't begin to imagine how many phone calls Aaron had to take on any given day. Keep in mind that he had to take phone calls, make parts, ship parts, etc all at the same time. Maybe if the kit were truly bolt-on, his phone call load would've been reduced enough to keep things going. That, of course, is impossible. The Chinese mill is what it is. It was designed and built long before IH came into the picture.

Then there's the problem with the electronics... why didn't IH install and wire the Geckos neatly in a box?

[BobWarfield]

My 2 cents:

1. Aaron got what sounded like a very interesting offer to join the family hot rod business which is much larger and more successful than IH was. Given how much work it is to run a one man show, I would not discount that he may have just gotten a better offer as much as anything.

2. There was a lot of acrimonious behavior going on in various message boards. In most of the cases I saw, the people throwing stones looked clueless, but that would wear a man down dealing with it day to day in a professional manner. This is made much worse when you're in the kit business than when you are selling either components or finished machines. Kits are sort of an ugly middle ground in that respect.

3. It seemed to me like IH missed the opportunity to keep adding products. They really only had 3--mills, conversion kits, and briefly the optical limits. You have to keep adding new products constantly, and that would be hard if Aaron had to do everything else too. Nevertheless, there were a lot of products he could have marketed that would have broadened his line quite a bit. Some obvious examples would be a powered drawbar for the IH or a belt driven spindle.

4. Marketing is key when selling over the Internet. The final product may not be slick, but it had better look slick.

If you compare and contrast with Tormach, they took on more employees, have more products, sell components or finished machines, and have marketed in a slick way. It still remains completely unclear to me whether their machines are any better than a well executed IH conversion, and it probably never will be clear in the wake of the changes at IH.

If you want to see a relatively small CNC company that I think has a great line of products and looks like they execute well, but whose machine is not a lot more complex than the IH, take a look at Omni-turn.

Best,

BW

[jjdon]

I'm basically a lurker here - I make jewelry, have a 9"x20" HF lathe, and the Lathemaster mill which is basically the IH model. CNC is sweeping the jewelry industry, and I'm looking to jump on board. I've run into two, related issues, though, which some of you have mentioned here. First is that 2/3 of the machines in the scale I want (small scale, high speed spindle) are 10 times overpriced. They are $5,000 machines for $40,000, if you look at the way they're built. The Taig is $1800, and I have vendors with the same mill, maybe a bit larger, for $35,000 - not really much different, and certainly not $33,000 different. The other side is the DIY route, which is what you guys have brought up. So, I can buy a manual machine, buy motors, buy controller cards, power supplies, cabling, ball screws and nuts, sit down and scrape the ways and all the rest, figure out the electronics, build a box for it all, and 3 months later have something, or I might have some blown boards and a crappy machine. Even more is to build the whole thing. I am at least theoretically capable, but why on earth would I want to do that? I appreciate the tinkering side of life, but tinkering to me is an afternoon or a week's time. Yes, I do want plug-and-play - if it were a matter of mechanics, I might do something. It's the electronics that I don't go that deep into, and I don't want to start. Anyway - kind of a rant - the good machines cost a lot and finding the right one at the right price is daunting. And when I read the thoughts about this it just made me think. Yes, many of you all make many fine things, including your own machines, and I mean that - this is a nice site. But I DO just want something I can plug in and set to work...

[cncJerry]

warranty and support kills a lot a small businesses. I think IH machines were too good of a deal. Obviously not making enough money will put anyone out of business. I see the prices are higher from the new owner.

[BrendaEM]

I looked at a lot of IH info. Apparently, the ways on the first batch of mills were a little rough. If this is no longer the case, I could make a point of showing everyone the goods. As a prospective mill buyer, the scariest things that could go wrong with a mill are the ways, the spindle, and general accuracy.

The IH is a large mill; not everyone can move a 950lbs mill. A used Bridgeport mill is tough competition.

Oddly, I think their choice of color might affect sales too, it's too bright, too overstated. It would be interesting to set up a double-blind test with the Ford-grabber blue on the IH mills, and a more subtle blue such as Encos.

[JRouche]

Oddly, I think their choice of color might affect sales too, it's too bright, too overstated. It would be interesting to set up a double-blind test with the Ford-grabber blue on the IH mills, and a more subtle blue such as Encos.

Ohooo, I like the color of the IHM. I have the Enco and have repainted it, the same factory color. The Enco is actually a real close color to my Logan shaper. I guess I just like variety, nothing wrong with the IH blue...

Funny, a machinist will say "awh, I dont care the color, its just gotta cut metal" but marketing shows they DO care....JRouche

[SyilAmerica]

Wow, I didn't know it was a one man band before. That would put me in my grave. It is extremely hard with even 5 people. Wow, way to go Aaron.

[SMW Precision]

Yes, I do want plug-and-play - if it were a matter of mechanics, I might do something. It's the electronics that I don't go that deep into, and I don't want to start. Anyway - kind of a rant - the good machines cost a lot and finding the right one at the right price is daunting. And when I read the thoughts about this it just made me think. Yes, many of you all make many fine things, including your own machines, and I mean that - this is a nice site. But I DO just want something I can plug in and set to work...

IH Mill versions are now being sold in plug and play versions. Finished complete ready to run including a PC loaded with Mach and Dolphin Cad/CAM stage 2 or Stage 3. IH website is making progress; products and prices are starting to showup. Gene is continuing the IH tradition of quality and is focused on supporting plug and play machines.
Though not showing well yet there are 2 major machine versions and a number of new options. Give the Guy a bit of time 2 1/2 weeks ago shop was moved into its new home. At this point they are fully operational and cutting parts; Mills will soon arrive.
I talked to Gene tonight while in the background a Heavy Duty IH mill was running at 60 ipm cutting a 3 1/2 inch circle in 6061. With a 1/4" deep cut per pass at 5200 rpm using a 1/4" endmill. In my book that is milling power.

[philbur]

Is that 5,200 rpm through the gearbox. The spec for the standard IH says 1,600 rpm. Is the HD IH mill a new product.

Phil

I talked to Gene tonight while in the background a Heavy Duty IH mill was running at 60 ipm cutting a 3 1/2 inch circle in 6061. With a 1/4" deep cut per pass at 5200 rpm using a 1/4" endmill. In my book that is milling power.

[SMW Precision]

Is that 5,200 rpm through the gearbox. The spec for the standard IH says 1,600 rpm. Is the HD IH mill a new product.

Phil

CNC versions on Standard Mill are around 3200 rpm and there is the Heavy Duty version that is over 5200 rpm. I would call IH for full information.

[Cruiser]

there is supposed to be a belt conversion available soon according to Aaron before the sale. don't know if it is still on or not. If Aarons mills sold with busyness then it could be his belt drive getting to that speed, NOT thru gear box tho !

[BobWarfield]

I talked to Aaron one time about a high speed spindle he had built for his mill for doing aluminum work. I'm sure that's what's being referred to here. It's very likely what they use to produce the aluminum parts for the kits.

It wouldn't surprise me if it shows up as a product at some point too.

Best,

BW

[SMW Precision]

warranty and support kills a lot a small businesses. I think IH machines were too good of a deal. Obviously not making enough money will put anyone out of business. I see the prices are higher from the new owner.

Prices are the same as previous or last year at $4500 for the kit. I paid 4400 last April, today's kit has added elements that previous kits did not include. In fact Gene packed a great deal more value into current kit offering.

Today's kits are exactly the same components and quality of machining that Aaron was known for.

Whats been added:

20 amp power supply is now standard, previously about a $180 option.
Mach License
2nd Stage Dolphin Cad/Cam License

[BobWarfield]

You're right Ken, that is a pretty nice deal.

Best,

BW

[Shepard]

I spoke to gene briefly about the belt drive spindle and my understanding was that it is on hold for awhile as other goodies are being produced.