[The Wolf!]

i usally tap around a 1000 rpm. and my threads are fine. i have not heard anything good about the update after 1030???? good luck man.
o, also know. all the dip sticks that designed the new software and said it was ready to go, NO longer work for haas....

[Machineit]

Version 1030 is what I'm running and they are "suppose" to be installing new software Monday 1/9/2017. Oh wait?? Yet another date they failed to hit without any contact or update what so ever to let me know when they will be out.

If you have no need to tap fast and can accept up to 2 full turn on your 2B nogo, then I'm sure your doing fine.

If you are just concerned with go-nogo then you need to look at the screen and watch the depth control. I had a machine that used to tap too deep and I had to adjust the parameter to make it stop and reverse at the correct place. If you are not breaking taps, then that is the issue that you most likely have. The ramp up ramp down for the directional change. I don't remember the parameter right now, but it is the one that determines the time it takes for the spindle to stop and puts the load on the regen.

Watch your position screen and see if the tap stops at, say a programmed depth of 1.000" or something different.

Mike

[D.D.Machine]

I don`t get why people are still putting up with the POS next gen control ... The only good day I had with mine was the day they came and picked the POS up ... Every state has consumer rights laws and its 100% clear that haas is selling bad controls and has been for the last year ,,, make them pick it up and give you your $$ back .. that is what I did and I`m a happy camper with the new Doosan that was less money and its a WAY better machine .

I run two haas mills and the new Doosan everyday and there is no way in hell I would buy any more new haas machines ... there older control is nice and works good ,,, but after a month of doing setups on the Fanuc control its just as easy to run as the haas
and the machine cuts WAY better ,,,

[mtlhe]

DD, can you explain how the Doosan is cutting, "way bettter"? Not looking for a fight, but rather genuinely interested. Because just this week I had to cut 150 parts that had a couple of critical dimensions, one being a.375 +0/ -.001 tolerance. I ran an aggressive HSM path yet it held that feature withing that call out on every part. I really thought to myself how truly incredible this machines are to do that. Especially not long ago we had to do milling operations on a Bridgeport type machines. Sometimes we had to special op with fixtures and processes to account for such demands. It's really done everything I've asked of it. My ST10 lathe does this same, incredibly fast and accurate. I certainly understand the frustrations regarding the issues with the new control, unacceptable. But what I'm really interested in is seeing how the Doosan is better/faster/more accurate,etc, then say the VF2SS. Also, Doosan site doesn't list any prices to compare to the Haas. Which model compares to which Haas and the price.

[D.D.Machine]

back story
I`m a one man shop for the most part and have 35 years in the trade and 253 years self employed as a CNC shop ... I have a 2014 vf4ss and a 2015 vf2ss and had ordered a second vf2ss only to find out I was stuck with there new control ...

long story short there Next gen control is a POS
after they came and picked it up I ordered a Doosan dnm5700 they run $79.900 with TSC / TSA twin chip augers and a chip conveyor there 41" X axis and 22 "Y axis .... so size is between the vf2 and the vf4 that is next to it in the shop
12k spindle and about the same rapids as the haas ...

The Doosan is build WAY bigger in the castings , Has about twice the spindle HP from what I have found, Has a Big 40 spindle and the chip system on it is WAY better
I Run the same jobs on all three machines and have found the VF2SS to be a better cutting machine than the VF4SS and well both are low on spindle power the VF4SS I find I have to play more with speeds and feeds to get a sweet spot were it does not shake like a crack head. The haas machines are not vary heavy and one has to watch how they program there parts around there low HP and light weight ...

I think its funny how haas calls what every other builder out there is standard haas calls a "Super Speed" and charges extra for
12K spindle is standard on most small 40 taper mills
1,200 to 1,400 IPM is standard
HSM is standard on most modern controls (extra $$ from haas )
Big 40 taper is standard and not even offered by Haas
Chip conveyor is standard or a option by most except haas ...they only sell augers on the smaller VF mills
Most controls come with converational programming as standard except Haas (extra $$ from Haas)
Most builders are 30 tools or more and haas is still at 24 tools standard
Most 30x16" machines weight about 50% more than Haas

And a big one for me is Haas is the "ONLY" large machine builder to stop supporting there control boards after 8 years ...

I don`t dislike Haas I just don`t think there support is worth a dammm anymore and there is a lot better machines out there for the money. After buying a Doosan and running it side by side to two newer haas mills on the same parts I can say the Doosan is build way better and you can push a cutter as hard as the cutter can go and not as hard as the machine can go.

I think Haas needs to step up there game and build a better machine for the price there asking for them ,,, when you look at the new Samsung, Doosan , Akira seiki and other builders out there haas is really falling short for there price point .... Just look at all the sales Haas has been having just to unload there machines.

As a shop with two haas mills and one of there lathes I have found there machines to be "OK" with the old control ,, But I well not be buying anymore new haas machines. My return on investment is better spent on other brands

[mtlhe]

I guess I'm glad I don't have that new control. Thanks for the explanation. I don;t ever get work that requires extremely heavy of even large parts where I've ever needed to tax the machine(say 1" cutters hogging steels) or anything. But for speed,accuracy, and dependability I've always been both happy and impressed with all my Haas machines.I absolutely agree on the extras Haas charges. Ridiculous that in today's manufacturing they still only offer slow spindles as standard. Then when you price their options they are ridiculous in cost. Who would buy a new vehicle then not add power windows. The price adds up quickly even if you only select a couple options and those options are needed on these machines anyway.

[D.D.Machine]

One really does not see the down side to haas machines tell they run a better built machine... I spend this sunday running the two haas and the Doosan ,,, all were running alum parts ,,, the haas mills I was screwing around with the chips building up on the floor of the machine and in the back catch screen every hour or two ,,, the Doosan with the twin screws on the sides of the Y axis and the conveyor I did not touch chips all day .. no build up of chips and no screens to clean out.

the doosan has the big 40 spindle in it and face milling it makes a "WAY" better finish than the Haas without the big 40 spindle ... No burrs on the sides of the parts you have to file off before flipping them in the vise on the Doosan ,,, same cutter / feed and speed and you have to file every part coming off the Haas.

Doosan has 230 PSI through spindle coolant and I use it on most jobs ,,, I ordered the techniks endmill holders with the slots down the side of the bore and man do they blast the chips out of the cut . I even run the TSC on most of my drills with just a standard ER chuck and collet

One of the best things about the Doosan over the Haas is at the end of the day the floor is dry around the Doosan ,,, the damm Haas leaks a ton around the bottom of the side windows . I have to wet mop the floor around the haas 2 or 3 times a week and let it dry before I can sweep up around it ,, the Doosan I have not had to mop around it in 2 months ...

when you run them side by side you soon find how the stupid little things add up by the end of the day.

[haastec]

Nice discussion on the differences.

I have been to many shops and have seen many different kinds of machines and how they are used. I obviously like Haas machines, but I am also not blind to their shortcomings and how they stack up to other machines. It will be interesting to see how Haas evolves now that more and more machine builders are narrowing the competition gap. In a way, that type of competition benefits all users.

[DruMor]

i usally tap around a 1000 rpm. and my threads are fine. i have not heard anything good about the update after 1030???? good luck man.
o, also know. all the dip sticks that designed the new software and said it was ready to go, NO longer work for haas....

I'm scared to ask, but will anyway.....what is wrong with the update after 1030? I know some demo machines were running 100.16.000.1031 at the PRI show in December. I'm running 1030 now, and similar to previous updates it fixed one problem and screwed up other things that used to work perfectly fine. I'm at a loss as to how they keep going one step forward and two steps back with every revision. I asked applications when they were going to fix the NEW problem with 1030 where you can no longer access the "Active Program" menu while the machine is running, and the reply was basically 'its a known issue, but there is no date or software version where that bug is scheduled to be fixed.' WTF, it worked fine until version 1030!

It is good to hear that the geniuses that released this software 2 years to soon are no longer Haas employees. I say 2 years too soon, because I've had it over a year and they are no where close to having it fixed. I think D.D.Machine had the right idea, make them come get the POS! We have had this one for a little over a year now, so I'm afraid I'm stuck with it at this point. (And moving a VF-2SS back out is a teeny tinny bit less work than moving an EC-1600 back out )

[D.D.Machine]

Drumor
All states have there own "Consumer rights laws " ( lemon laws )
Most states are VARY clear in that the consumers should get what they expect to get ,,, and that the seller has 3 times to try and fit it before they have to take it back. By law you have 2 years to take them to court.

After they removed there POS VF2SS and I got the Dooosan dnm5700 I ended up with saving a lot of money and getting a WAY better machine in the end.

Bottom line for me was I was not going to spend $90,000 on a machine that could not be ran safely.... Well Haas might have some deep pockets and be a little hard to fight ,,, we buy the machines for the HFO and not from Haas ... Its Your HFO that has there ass on the line

I still don`t get why in the hell Haas would sell a control before they tested it ,,,, even the upgrades they keep doing to my POS control would make it worse .... How is it they can send out a upgrade to customers only to have us find even more problems with it the first day we try and use it .

The last upgrade they did on mine made it so if you jogged a axis to lets say set Z height and then went into program select mode it would still move the last axis you used in jog mode when you used the pulse wheel to move between programs .... I called haas and told them and the dip stick on the phone at Haas tried to tell me i was wrong .

[raormrod]

You gentlemen need to check out the YCM NXV1020A. Couple shops around north Texas here have them and they swear by them for HSM as well as repeatablility and accuracy.

[trickeng]

Good input!! I already looked into the YCM and definitely like the NSV line.

But, if I send these two vf4ss's back I may just stay with what got me here. Used Matsuura's. Hate the maintenance bills, but they make great parts.

I also have a 2015 DT-1 which crashed the toolchanger arm 15min after first power up. Then after they replaced the bent arm and finished the set-up it had a bad spindle which had to be replaced at 13hours old. I'm done with these hunks of crap.

So done with Haas junk.

[D.D.Machine]

I looked at the DT1 mills but after seeing all of them on the used market that were like 2 to 4 years old and half price of new and they still were not selling it kinda told me there was a down side to them .... one has to really not like a machine to sell them at that big of a loss just get get away from them ,,,,

I do a lot of engraving and there cheaper than mini mills on the used market and WAY faster ... just have to find one on the used market with the older control

YCM
The shop I went to look at the Doosan mills before buying one had a row of YCM machines and I asked the owner why he changed and was told YCM was to hard to get "hard" parts for ...From looking at YCM, doosan and samsung mills there for the most part the same machines and i think it mostly has to do with who could give you the best service in your area.

[HFO Tech]

Unfortunately every manufacturer has their own product issues. I've was installing two st-10's next to two doosan lathes that were only a year and half old. I asked the owner why he decided to go Haas and his reply was, " I've had these two Doosan's for the the past year and a half, doosan has been out here 8 times over the last 10 months replacing the turcite on the ways because they're using the wrong type which was peeling off the ways every other month." He got to the point he was going to send those doosan's back until the president of doosan came out and promised him the world to keep the machines. After that two months later he ended up having to dump $75,000 in spindle bearings and parts because his operator had crashed them machine..although thinking about it on. 130,000 machine spending $75,000 on spindle rebuild is over half the cost of the machine. I've been to other places where they've had to pay 50-80k on spindle parts. So flip a coin and hope everything works out for you because one way you get nickeled and dimed oryoujust flat out get bent over.

[HFO Tech]

Oh and recently I was at another customer that had two newer vl lathes, and the operator crashed them costing them 60k in repairs, but the real kicker was when the maintenance guy was telling me how one of the prox sensor brackets got bent from the crash. He called mori thinking it was a 200 dollar part when mori wanted 3,500 for a silly bracket. I was completely amazed on how such a simply piece damn near cost half the cost of a 40 taper Haas spindle. Lol

[mtlhe]

i spoke to two different companies recently who have new vf2ss's and they claim they are very happy with them. No issues so far. Haas claims to have the bugs out of the new control.

[underthetire]

Our Moris run every day, out of the dozen + of them, think i had to replace one contactor and one switch. Our Haas mills run without issue as well, minimal service intervention. Unfortunately we will probably not buy very many more Haas mills because of the new controls. We heavily modify the mills for dedicated work, and need to change parameters and settings, and some motor tuning.

Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk

[HFO Tech]

Any machine can run long periods of time with next to nothing on repairs, but when you do the foreign machines will cost more to repair.

[underthetire]

But, they are certainly better built. I would also say other "US" machines are more expensive for parts than the Japanese.

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[HFO Tech]

understand everyone has their preferences, but I rather have a decent machine that could be paid off in a year or two and have several yrs of profit run on it. I wouldn't buy a tank one that you're still paying on 10-15 yrs later plus if anything does break on it I'm not going to get dragged through the cleaners. I know several owners that buys a Haas and trades it in every 7 yrs for a new one. So his first couple yrs is under warranty, already paid off making 5-6 yrs of profit. Plus the market has already proven over the years that those older tank machines aren't as benefiting really. That's why Mori and the other companies are trying to come up with ways to compete with machine sales. It's more economical. You don't need something that can take a 3 " cut and takes hours to complete when you can have something take lighter cuts at faster speeds and feeds and get done in the same amount of time if not faster than the 3" cut. Plus when you're building so many machines that they're you're bound to get one that causes problems, but the majority of the product we have tons of machines out there that hasn't had to have any service completed on them at all. The average uptime is 98% on thousands and thousands of machines.