[jmvar]

Hi, I have been doing some reading on this forum to try and find the differences between these two tools and when one should be used over the other. I bought a lot of used TTS tooling that included both of these and could use some guidance.

This is all on a PCNC1100.

I am machining 6061 aluminum, the first op is to face stock that is about 1.25" wide and 6" long so the cuts will be interrupted. I have noticed that when I push the superfly to 3500 rpm, 1.25" WOC, .030" DOC on 6061 to rough out the face of the stock it is pretty hard on the insert (you can see wear on the edges) and the surface finish suffers when I do a finish pass. I have not tried roughing and finishing tests with the facemill yet.

Would it be better to do a roughing pass with the facemill and a finish pass with the superfly or vise-versa?

When is the ideal situation to use each when you have both available?

Thanks

[Steve Seebold]

Use the face mill for that kind of work.

The Super Fly is a cool looking tool and would work great on a 10,000 pound 20 or 30 horsepower machine but in my opinion, the PCNC 1100 is just too light weight and not nearly rigid enough for that tool.

Don't get me wrong, I have owned a PCNC 1100 since July 2011 and for the kind of work I do, I love it. It's just not the right machine for a fly cutter. Not just the Super Fly, any fly cutter.

[CadRhino]

I am on my 4th super fly. It has its place but if I were you I would just get the Facemill. I just use the super fly fir just simple jobs.

Hi, I have been doing some reading on this forum to try and find the differences between these two tools and when one should be used over the other. I bought a lot of used TTS tooling that included both of these and could use some guidance.

This is all on a PCNC1100.

I am machining 6061 aluminum, the first op is to face stock that is about 1.25" wide and 6" long so the cuts will be interrupted. I have noticed that when I push the superfly to 3500 rpm, 1.25" WOC, .030" DOC on 6061 to rough out the face of the stock it is pretty hard on the insert (you can see wear on the edges) and the surface finish suffers when I do a finish pass. I have not tried roughing and finishing tests with the facemill yet.

Would it be better to do a roughing pass with the facemill and a finish pass with the superfly or vise-versa?

When is the ideal situation to use each when you have both available?

Thanks

[IMT]

3500rpm with a Fly cutter!!! I only use my superfly for finishing a surface, not for any significant metal removal. I run it 2200rpm maximum and .010DOC. There is a thread in this forum from when the superfly first came out where the arm broke in half. Imagine that at 3500rpm! The facemill is a better choice if you want to rough and finish with the same tool.

[MichaelHenry]

The Superfly is great for machining an almost mirror smooth finish in aluminum or brass so long as you can fly cut the entire surface in one pass. It can be adjusted to approximately a 3-inch cutting diameter so that's about the largest width you can fly cut in one pass. The 38-mm face mill will cut faster (since it has 4 cutting edges and is a smaller diameter) but you will get vague lines in the work where each pass overlaps. Like much of machining, the best tool for the operation depends on your objectives and skills.

By the way, the polished inserts in either the face mill or the Superfly can usually be counted to give you exceptional finishes in aluminum, brass, and most plastics.

[tbev]

I use my superfly up to like 0.125doc aprox 2in wide between 2500-3100rpm. If I have to remove a lot of material I either hot out with the shear hog then do a ten tho cut with the fly cutter. Or if I want to do it with changing tools I just rip the superfly. I realize I prolly use it more aggressively than most but it's a trooper, I've never had any bad results, I think it's great.

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[pickled]

Superfly with the polished insert is a great tool for up to a 2.5" wide swath at 80 thou depths in 6061 or 7075. The surface finish is hard to beat. I have used coated inserts and fly cut titanium, 304 SS, Hot Rolled plate and various tool steels at various depths as well. Coolant is a must for the titanium, however, or else you could get a fireworks display.

Basically the thing that the superfly does not do well at IMHO is giving you a predictable DOC on anything more than a couple of thou at rational feed rates. If you are going for giving stock a quick hair cut, or providing a beautiful aesthetic finish on a one pass part it's pretty hard to beat. If you are going for nailing a targeted precision for flatness or Z dimension use a different tool. My 1100 likes the superfly in the spindle much more than my 770 does that's for darn sure. I do use it often. Here is a crappy video of me reclaiming a fixture with mine.https://youtu.be/aGcKR91LZN0

[Steve Seebold]

I use my superfly up to like 0.125doc aprox 2in wide between 2500-3100rpm. If I have to remove a lot of material I either hot out with the shear hog then do a ten tho cut with the fly cutter. Or if I want to do it with changing tools I just rip the superfly. I realize I prolly use it more aggressively than most but it's a trooper, I've never had any bad results, I think it's great.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Yeah, but a Shear Hog doesn't make CHIPS. It makes CHUNKS.

When I had my shop I ran a 2 inch 3 flute Shear Hog on a 20 horsepower machine and I could take a 1 3/4 inch width of cut, 1/4 inch deep at 75 inches per minute.

It sounded like a popcorn popper inside the machine.

[lens42]

Here is a crappy video of me reclaiming a fixture with mine.https://youtu.be/aGcKR91LZN0

Whenever I try to fly cut a overhang like that, I get a rippled finish.


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[tbev]

20hp pushing a shearhog dibs delicious!!

I get the same ripple doing the same thing, overhang or doing the bottom side of a pocket, (flipped over). This part I remove the excess stock with shearhog then take the last ten tho with the super fly. (Held upside down).

[pickled]

Whenever I try to fly cut a overhang like that, I get a rippled finish.


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No ripples on this one because on the North end of the vise was a 18:x 1.125" stainless "parallel" that was +/- 6" from the sides of the 6" vise :-). Ripples are almost always due to resonance when I run into them. 6061 definitely does not like to be unsupported.

[popspipes]

My facemill does the same thing on thick and thin material if its unsupported, the inserts dont have enough top rake on them and they arent sharp enough in my opinion. Carbide is more chip resistant if the edge is honed a bit, which makes it not as sharp as HSS.

[sansbury]

I call my Superfly "the part wrecker." It's great for finish facing wide surfaces but I've had it scrap more parts and scare the @&$! out of me when it yanked a part out of the vise (think facing off the back side of a thin-walled part). Recently got the TTS Shear Hog and I think it is the ultimate tool for anything Aluminum. The only thing the 'fly would be better for is finishing a large surface for maximum flatness and finish.

[Kenny Duval]

The trick is to take off the material in a single pass if possible. If you take it in steps then the thin unsupported metal tends to fold up and get grabbed by the cutter. I have yet to ruin a part with it. If you are worried about it you can saw off the unsupported material beyond your part profile before you hit it with the Superfly.

[pickled]

I call my Superfly "the part wrecker." It's great for finish facing wide surfaces but I've had it scrap more parts and scare the @&$! out of me when it yanked a part out of the vise (think facing off the back side of a thin-walled part). Recently got the TTS Shear Hog and I think it is the ultimate tool for anything Aluminum. The only thing the 'fly would be better for is finishing a large surface for maximum flatness and finish.

Anointing a tool as "the part wrecker" is good stuff! Bottoming machine taps were my version of "the part wrecker" for a number of years. It got so bad that I would drill, rough chamfer and tap all holes before investing any time in 3D surfacing work. Anytime a part that is on the last operation goes flying from a vise or a fixture it is definitely a painful experience!

[cobrakai]

I talked to a very experienced machinist about this very question. He recommended a face mill 9 times out of 10. The rigidity, the faster speeds (he used one with 8 octagonal carbide inserts), it's just far more capable. However the super fly is awesome for that ultra light finish pass to leave a perfect nice looking finish.

[IMT]

John at NYCNC posted a video yesterday where he is pushing the superfly pretty hard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMbjj5qsGp8 go to 9:14 to see the superfly in use.
A multi insert facemill will not be able to remove metal any faster on a 1.5hp machine.
I personally don't push it that hard and use my insert EMs for roughing.

[tbev]

John at NYCNC posted a video yesterday where he is pushing the superfly pretty hard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMbjj5qsGp8 go to 9:14 to see the superfly in use.
A multi insert facemill will not be able to remove metal any faster on a 1.5hp machine.
I personally don't push it that hard and use my insert EMs for roughing.

What kind of insert em's do you have, how do you like them? I'm thinking about trying a 3/8in if I can find one, preferably single insert..

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[IMT]

What kind of insert em's do you have, how do you like them? I'm thinking about trying a 3/8in if I can find one, preferably single insert..

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

I have Tormach's modular insert setup with the 25mm Centercutting EM and 25mm Toroid EM. Short and Medium length holders. Both of these work great. The centercutting EM is my goto tool for roughing aluminum. Toroid is great for finishing flat surfaces and pocket floors that need a corner radius.

I also have the same setup in the smaller size, 17mm Centercutting EM and 16mm Toroid EM. The 17mm EM works good but is not very robust. I had a part pull out of a fixture (my fault), the inserts broke as expected but the tool was destroyed as well. The land for the horizontal insert was bent so the insert won't sit correctly. I bought a second one and a few weeks ago it also failed. This one was not my fault, no part pullout, it just snapped off at the base of the thread. It had started rattling, not chatter, and about 20 seconds later it went "clunk" and I found the endmill sitting on top of the part, holder still in the spindle with the twisted off thread in it. I will still use the first 17mm EM with just the vertical insert.

FYI, Shars sells a 3/8" single insert endmill.
3/8" 90 Degree End Mill APKT Insert - Indexable Milling - Indexable Cutting - Products

[pickled]

I have Tormach's modular insert setup with the 25mm Centercutting EM and 25mm Toroid EM. Short and Medium length holders. Both of these work great. The centercutting EM is my goto tool for roughing aluminum. Toroid is great for finishing flat surfaces and pocket floors that need a corner radius.

I also have the same setup in the smaller size, 17mm Centercutting EM and 16mm Toroid EM. The 17mm EM works good but is not very robust. I had a part pull out of a fixture (my fault), the inserts broke as expected but the tool was destroyed as well. The land for the horizontal insert was bent so the insert won't sit correctly. I bought a second one and a few weeks ago it also failed. This one was not my fault, no part pullout, it just snapped off at the base of the thread. It had started rattling, not chatter, and about 20 seconds later it went "clunk" and I found the endmill sitting on top of the part, holder still in the spindle with the twisted off thread in it. I will still use the first 17mm EM with just the vertical insert.

FYI, Shars sells a 3/8" single insert endmill.
3/8" 90 Degree End Mill APKT Insert - Indexable Milling - Indexable Cutting - Products

I too have blown up 2 of the 17 mm centercutting EM's. They both failed at the threads at the slightest of mistakes (chatter from a loose fixture bolt and a bit aggressive WOC). I just don't think that the design has enough meat to be robust to the less than perfect programmer/set-up tactician LOL. The centercutting toroidal is tough and does a good job. I have a 25 mm centercutting EM, but am almost afraid to use it after losing the two 17mm versions. Still beat up on the superfly, but I always check ALL of the set-screws before every use.