[dimbmw]

Hi

I would like to buy a desktop injection molding machine to be able to produce some simple parts when needed, so I would also like to buy a mill to produce molds.

I am wondering if Tormach is a good mill to mill there aluminum molds.

Has anyone tried that? How is the quality? Which model is better? I've noticed that the most expensive model 1100 has less RPM than the model 770 or 440.

Please advice! Maybe some other models/manufacturers that can do the job better?

Thanks!

[CadRhino]

Do a search. There was a guy who makes some really nice molds. There was a thread several years ago.

Hi

I would like to buy a desktop injection molding machine to be able to produce some simple parts when needed, so I would also like to buy a mill to produce molds.

I am wondering if Tormach is a good mill to mill there aluminum molds.

Has anyone tried that? How is the quality? Which model is better? I've noticed that the most expensive model 1100 has less RPM than the model 770 or 440.

Please advice! Maybe some other models/manufacturers that can do the job better?

Thanks!

[shred]

I've made molds on an 1100. Both for desktop molders and commercial molders. The 1100 can do the work, but the slow spindle speed is an issue. Even 10K may not get what you want, depending on the molds and parts you want to make and how much hand-finishing you want to do. If you have the budget, there are many far more capable mills out there to do mold work.

Moldmaking and molding is a pretty long learning curve and it sounds like you are just beginning. I'd suggest if there's a TechShop nearby, investigate their desktop molder and Tormach to see if it really makes sense.

[dimbmw]

I've made molds on an 1100. Both for desktop molders and commercial molders. The 1100 can do the work, but the slow spindle speed is an issue. Even 10K may not get what you want, depending on the molds and parts you want to make and how much hand-finishing you want to do. If you have the budget, there are many far more capable mills out there to do mold work.

Moldmaking and molding is a pretty long learning curve and it sounds like you are just beginning. I'd suggest if there's a TechShop nearby, investigate their desktop molder and Tormach to see if it really makes sense.

Thanks!
I've noticed that the 1100 model has for some reason only 5000rpm, while the cheaper models, 770 and 440, have 10000RPM.
What are my options with a higher RPM spindle ? Could you suggest any other brands that suit mold-making better? I really do not want do do any hand-finishing.

[kstrauss]

Tormach sells a 24000rpm replacement spindle (https://www.tormach.com/store/index...._Speed_Spindle). Cheaper solutions that have been used by some include an auxiliary spindle based on a woodworking router or Kress (https://www.tormach.com/search.html?q=kress) spindle.

[dimbmw]

Tormach sells a 24000rpm replacement spindle (https://www.tormach.com/store/index...._Speed_Spindle). Cheaper solutions that have been used by some include an auxiliary spindle based on a woodworking router or Kress (https://www.tormach.com/search.html?q=kress) spindle.

Thanks! Of course I am not considering an auxiliary spindle - I am buying a new machine and I want everything to be native. A 24000 RPM spindel with the frequency inverter is $250 on amazon, I could buy one and some cheap 3040Z chineze CNC if I wanted to go the DIY way.

I already see that Tormach 1100 is not a good fit, I've contacted them and they recommended 770, but they've not provided any numbers yet on what surface finish I can get with their machine.

[dimbmw]

Do a search. There was a guy who makes some really nice molds. There was a thread several years ago.

Could not find it, can you help please?

[pickled]

If your molds are small enough to fit the envelope the 770 is a very nice machine to have. Now if you are looking to continuously maintain sub +/- 0.001" tolerances and/or make a living off from making molds you should not be looking at a Tormach. I've made a few blow molding unit cavities with my 770 for R&D purposes (consumer concept testing of new packages) for clients. After some benchwork (deburring and stoning draft surfaces in critical areas) they were able to use them for limited production. If all my projects were for such tooling I would be investing in a different machine with additional features, tighter tolerances and 5 axis capability. For one-offs, proof of concept work or light production that doesn't require extremely tight tolerances it is hard to beat the cost/benefit of these machines. Do you have an RA that you desire? If so put it forward and maybe some here can comment on that.

[dimbmw]

If your molds are small enough to fit the envelope the 770 is a very nice machine to have. Now if you are looking to continuously maintain sub +/- 0.001" tolerances and/or make a living off from making molds you should not be looking at a Tormach. I've made a few blow molding unit cavities with my 770 for R&D purposes (consumer concept testing of new packages) for clients. After some benchwork (deburring and stoning draft surfaces in critical areas) they were able to use them for limited production. If all my projects were for such tooling I would be investing in a different machine with additional features, tighter tolerances and 5 axis capability. For one-offs, proof of concept work or light production that doesn't require extremely tight tolerances it is hard to beat the cost/benefit of these machines. Do you have an RA that you desire? If so put it forward and maybe some here can comment on that.

I would like to have RA 10.
Do you have any high res pictures of the mold cavities that you milled with the 770 that you could share?

[IMT]

Thanks! Of course I am not considering an auxiliary spindle - I am buying a new machine and I want everything to be native. A 24000 RPM spindel with the frequency inverter is $250 on amazon, I could buy one and some cheap 3040Z chineze CNC if I wanted to go the DIY way.

I already see that Tormach 1100 is not a good fit, I've contacted them and they recommended 770, but they've not provided any numbers yet on what surface finish I can get with their machine.

The 24000rpm spindle Tormach sells is a Replacement spindle not an auxiliary spindle. The 5000rpm spindle is removed and replaced with the high speed one, controlled by the same VFD in the control cabinet. The high speed version uses an ER collet so the tool length has to be reset at each tool change. Not a big deal if you use a tool setter.

I wouldn't expect Tormach to provide numbers on surface finish. There are so many other factors that influence it that are dependent on the diligence and experience of the person programming and setting up the machine. I doubt Haas, Mazak or DMG will give hard numbers either.

[nitewatchman]

The 24000rpm spindle Tormach sells is a Replacement spindle not an auxiliary spindle.

This is correct! I have the spindle for my machine and it is a very powerful unit and is very quiet. This is not a screaming router spindle hanging off the side. The only short comings are lack of TTS Capability and no ATC.

As to surface finish, this will be more a function of tooling selection, programing and technique which will fall under your skill set. Based upon my experience the spindle will hold up it's end.

gary

[dimbmw]

The 24000rpm spindle Tormach sells is a Replacement spindle not an auxiliary spindle. The 5000rpm spindle is removed and replaced with the high speed one, controlled by the same VFD in the control cabinet. The high speed version uses an ER collet so the tool length has to be reset at each tool change. Not a big deal if you use a tool setter.

I wouldn't expect Tormach to provide numbers on surface finish. There are so many other factors that influence it that are dependent on the diligence and experience of the person programming and setting up the machine. I doubt Haas, Mazak or DMG will give hard numbers either.

They already did. RA 60 at best. Bummer.

[IMT]

Well then you are going to have to drop $60K+ on a Haas CM1 or similar. Good luck.

[dimbmw]

Well then you are going to have to drop $60K+ on a Haas CM1 or similar. Good luck.

OMG, it looks great.... you are teasing me !!!

OK, are there any other options other than pay $60K ? OK, if no options within $10K, how about $20K ?

[SomeWhatLost]

OMG, it looks great.... you are teasing me !!!

OK, are there any other options other than pay $60K ? OK, if no options within $10K, how about $20K ?

I am not an expert by any means, but I think with a RA10 you have priced yourself out of the hobby market... so you probably are in the $60K+ range....(I am thinking RA 10 is a hard target to hit, so maybe more like $100K+ range? but I am a pessimistic about these things, so probably I am wrong... so I will take IMT's word for the $60K+ range...)
maybe you can get lucky and find a good used $60K+ range machine in the $10K-$20K range?

[pickled]

10 RA is quite a stretch for these machines! What you are looking for, however, is a different world of surface finish than this class of machine can be relied upon to deliver. My best surface finish was 3.2x that (as measured via profilometer) off the machine on a small experimental valve structure (intended for sanitary design) with limited slopes and drafts. Basically if you REALLY are matching speeds to materials, fixture appropriately, think through the optimal CAM strategies, really keep an eye on the tooling and take the operating environment into account one can coax more out of these machines, but if any single variable gets away from you your not going to deliver.

Another thing that may help is if the part is going to be produced with an aesthetic textured finish. I have found that many such finishes can mask a lot of sins. Now having said that you can perform a lot of bench work after the part comes off and then send your aluminum molds out for electroless nickel coatings or boron nitride coating so you can ensure that all that hand time invested is provided a measure of longevity. I was fortunate to have a few journeymen pattern makers in my family to work with and learn some of the old world ways of hand finishing and repairing molds. FYI they all suffered from severe repetitive motion disorders and other work related disabilities...no doubt acquired from their years of scraping and polishing production tooling trying to coax a few thou and tenths here and there. The stuff that they could do by feel (with numb hands, some old emery cloth and a set of nicholson files) still blows me away! The fact that we have such affordable CNC capability readily available blows them away LOL.

[shred]

I am not an expert by any means, but I think with a RA10 you have priced yourself out of the hobby market... so you probably are in the $60K+ range....(I am thinking RA 10 is a hard target to hit, so maybe more like $100K+ range? but I am a pessimistic about these things, so probably I am wrong... so I will take IMT's word for the $60K+ range...)
maybe you can get lucky and find a good used $60K+ range machine in the $10K-$20K range?

It will take an extreme amount of luck to find a good used $60K mold machine in the $10-20K range, especially one made this century and of a size and power requirements to fit where a Tormach might. A tiny bit easier if you live near Detroit or LA.

[cordvision]

It really depends on the type of molds your are making. Higher rpm really only allows you to machine faster, but that is about it. I'm just glad I got the 1100 because I really need the extra travel. You can find a whole bunch of molds and videos of them in action on my instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cordvision/