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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
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    285

    SuperPID worth it or not?

    The speed control on my router is very slow to react so the finish is affected when it leads in the material or when the load on the cutter changes.

    Will a SuperPID help keep the RPM constant?

    Does it help with efficiency? Does the router needs more cooling when running at lower RPM? Mine is rated 11k-25k.

    Also, it would be great to control RPM directly from G-Code.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    5516

    Re: SuperPID worth it or not?

    In my experience? Yes, yes, and no. You can run your router as low as 5krpm. Lot better than guessing with a dial on the router. I'd say on heavy loads within 100-150rpm.

    Of course today, spindles and VFD are getting cheaper than routers. If you already have the router, and maybe an investment in PreciseBits collets, then the SuperPID would be a good choice. Plus, routers are more easily replaced by going to the big box store, while you likely have to order a spindle. There are some VFDs that run at 110V that I've seen, but limit to 1.5kW spindles.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
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    285

    Re: SuperPID worth it or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by louieatienza View Post
    In my experience? Yes, yes, and no. You can run your router as low as 5krpm. Lot better than guessing with a dial on the router. I'd say on heavy loads within 100-150rpm.

    Of course today, spindles and VFD are getting cheaper than routers. If you already have the router, and maybe an investment in PreciseBits collets, then the SuperPID would be a good choice. Plus, routers are more easily replaced by going to the big box store, while you likely have to order a spindle. There are some VFDs that run at 110V that I've seen, but limit to 1.5kW spindles.
    I impressed with the 100-150 rpm variation. It is not that much.

    I have the router and a collet set from Elaire (1/8, 6, 1/4, 8, 10, 1/2) and only 110v available so it makes more sense to buy the SuperPID.

    Thanks for the info.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    520

    It sure is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Biggs427 View Post
    I impressed with the 100-150 rpm variation. It is not that much.

    I have the router and a collet set from Elaire (1/8, 6, 1/4, 8, 10, 1/2) and only 110v available so it makes more sense to buy the SuperPID.

    Thanks for the info.
    I've been using a Super PID for years now. I am a very satisfied customer. I highly recommend them. The router runs much quieter and cooler. The vac system is much louder than the router. I generally run it at about 10,000 rpm. I'm not taking very heavy cuts, so I would say the rpm stays within 50 rpms of what I have it set for.

    I set the rpms in the CAM. I never touch the router in the normal course of a job. The G-code turns the router on, sets the speed and then turns the router off at the end of the job.

    I would mention that the router you use cannot have any functional speed control in it. You either need a router with no speed control (I am using a Porter Cable 690, with the Precise Bits collets), remove the speed control, or wire it out of the circuit.

    I placed the Super PID inside my electronics cabinet.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSCN0397.JPG   DSCN0708.JPG  

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538

    Re: SuperPID worth it or not?

    I'm still running a pre-release Super-PID, after many years.
    As Louie said, it's hard to recommend them today, due to the low price of VFD+Spindles.

    A 2.2Kw spindle and VFD is cheaper than a $200 router + Super-PID, and much more powerful.

    But if you already have a good router, and only have 110V, than yes, the Super-PID is a worthwhile investment.

    The SuperPID will fluctuate more than 150rpm's at the start of a cut, but only for a fraction of a second. When actually cutting, rpm is very stable.

    And yes, it'll run much cooler, at all rpm's. The only issue you would have is if you're trying to do heavy cutting in the 5,000-8,000 rpm range.
    Gerry

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    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    817

    Re: SuperPID worth it or not?

    I like mine. Been going almost 5 years straight on it. Rock solid except for one thing. I have to remove and clean the sensor a few times per year because I located mine close to the carbon brushes.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    123

    Re: SuperPID worth it or not?

    I have a SuperPid on my machine currently and have just now started working on integrating it into the software for program control of speed.

    I can say that one of the things that drew me to the SuperPid versus a spindle at first was it's simplicity. The Superpid can be setup in 3 stages of use that means a home builder can take it on in stages after they get all the rest of the machine figured out and tuned.

    The first stage is to run the router without the load control (with or without rpm sensing), 2nd stage...running the router with load control and rpm sensing (adjustment at the SuperPid knob), and then finally running it fully integrated.

    I read many post in the spindle forum of people struggling with setting up their spindles/vector drive settings....and welcomed not dealing with that while I adjust the servo parameters.

    just my opinion.

    Rob

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538

    Re: SuperPID worth it or not?

    Imo, a spindle VFD is a little easier to wire up, as you don't have the router modifications to deal with.
    Software setup is identical between a Super Pid and VFD.
    You do have the VFD settings to change, which is pretty basic. The issue most people have here is not understanding which settings they need to set, as there's a lot of conflicting info on the internet.
    Gerry

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    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    5516

    Re: SuperPID worth it or not?

    Well, that's the thing - there are about 150 or so program settings. You need about 7 or 8 to get the spindle going, and you have to set the parameters in the proper sequence. And then comes trying to get the performance out of it. Also the decision between water- and air-cooled; each have their pros and cons. And then, of course, having a 220V outlet nearby - which may not be practical for some depending on where their machine is in relation to their electrical panel. And of course, the biggest thing, is having already the investment in a good router, along with a precision collet set and router mount - meaning, while I may not necessarily go this route on a new build (unless I didn't have access to 220V), as a retrofit to an existing machine I think it's a great choice.

    It wasn't too long ago when you couldn't get instructions for the famous HungYiang inverters since the manual was written in Mandarin - until someone here on the forum gave a copy to his girlfriend who was studying Mandarin in college and translated the entire manual.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538

    Re: SuperPID worth it or not?

    You need about 7 or 8 to get the spindle going, and you have to set the parameters in the proper sequence
    I think the "proper sequence" think is a myth. I never followed any sequence in setting mine up.


    And then comes trying to get the performance out of it.
    Which involves setting the accel and decel times. There really aren't any other settings that affect performance.



    Huanyang VFD's now come with a good printed manual, which can also be downloaded.
    Gerry

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    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    285

    Re: SuperPID worth it or not?

    I've seen a couple of 110VAC 1.5kw VFDs. Like this one.

    What about the power compared to a 2.25hp router?

    Only problem with 1.5kW spindle is that they all comes with ER11 or ER16 collets so no 1/2 endmills...

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    5516
    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    I think the "proper sequence" think is a myth. I never followed any sequence in setting mine up.
    Could be model specific? When I purchased mine, I got the specific instructions from the vendor, though I don't recall the reason off hand. I have the email somewhere....

  13. #13
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    Apr 2009
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    5516
    Quote Originally Posted by Biggs427 View Post
    I've seen a couple of 110VAC 1.5kw VFDs. Like this one.

    What about the power compared to a 2.25hp router?

    Only problem with 1.5kW spindle is that they all comes with ER11 or ER16 collets so no 1/2 endmills...
    1.5kW is about 2.2HP. But yes, you're limited to ER16....

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    5516

    Re: SuperPID worth it or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    I think the "proper sequence" think is a myth. I never followed any sequence in setting mine up.
    Here's the original email. It is possible that they have made a newer revision that obsoletes this procedure?

    Quote Originally Posted by From:[email protected]
    1. I drafed the wire picture. Please see from the link: http://www.jinlantrade.com/Stock%20files/0008.jpg
    2. You can see download the inverter manual from web link:
    http://www.jinlantrade.com/ebay/invertermanual.pdf
    3. I just tell you how to set up VFD as following
    Firstly, adjust the PD013 to 8 (set the setting to factory setting)
    Secondly, adjust the PD005 to 400
    Thirdly, adjust the PD004 to 400
    Finally, adjust the PD003 to 400
    Finally, adjust the PD144 to 3000
    Note: you should set PD013, PD005, PD004,PD003, PD144 in order. It mean you should firstly set PD013, then PD005, then PD004, then set PD003, finally set PD144.
    Note: after you set the all above parameter, then please recheck the PD005, PD004, PD003 value is 400 or not to confirmed that you already set it. (note: please do not check the PD013, or all the setting will go to factory setting)
    The reason we let you recheck is that if you do not set it at 400, then when you run the spindle motor, the spindle motor will be over-current, then the spindle will very hot and then within 5 minutes, it will broken.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538

    Re: SuperPID worth it or not?

    The email that came with mine said nothing about setting them in order.
    Gerry

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    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    3920

    Re: SuperPID worth it or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Biggs427 View Post
    I impressed with the 100-150 rpm variation. It is not that much.

    I have the router and a collet set from Elaire (1/8, 6, 1/4, 8, 10, 1/2) and only 110v available so it makes more sense to buy the SuperPID.

    Thanks for the info.
    I just want to point out that the actual power you can get out of a 110 volt outlet won't vary between a router and a proper VFD/spindle combo. VFD's running off 110V are available in the smaller power ranges. Generally a spindle / VFD upgrade will make a lot of sense and is probably a better long term investment.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    5516

    Re: SuperPID worth it or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by wizard View Post
    I just want to point out that the actual power you can get out of a 110 volt outlet won't vary between a router and a proper VFD/spindle combo. VFD's running off 110V are available in the smaller power ranges. Generally a spindle / VFD upgrade will make a lot of sense and is probably a better long term investment.
    True, but as pointed out before, the OP has need for 1/2" endmills and bits, which are all but impossible with a 1.5kW spindle; because they use ER-16 collets, and the largest available would be 7/16". Since there is already an investment in collets and tooling and router mount, the SuperPID makes good sense.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
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    35538

    Re: SuperPID worth it or not?

    True, but as pointed out before, the OP has need for 1/2" endmills and bits, which are all but impossible with a 1.5kW spindle;
    With cheap chinese spindles, yes. But you can get 1.5Kw spindles with ER20 collets.


    https://www.ugracnc.com/index.php/on...-v-24000-rpm-s
    Gerry

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    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    285

    Re: SuperPID worth it or not?

    Well, I might abandon the SuperPID idea as my router lower bearing has just died... After 91 days!! I'm not even certain that I used it more than 50 hours total...

    I will try to get a refund from where I bought it and put my good old 1hp Makita in place before I figure out what will comes next.

    I looked at the cutter I have, and except for 2-3 1/2 shank bottom cleaning cutter used to face parts or flatten the spoilboard, the biggest cutters I have are 10mm. So I could be ok with ER16 collet.

    I've looked at 1.5kw 110v VFS and it says input 110v and output 110v. I tought that the VFD output to the spindle was 220v. Does this mean that if I have a 110vfd, aI will need a 110v spindle?

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    817

    Re: SuperPID worth it or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Biggs427 View Post
    Well, I might abandon the SuperPID idea as my router lower bearing has just died... After 91 days!!
    FWIW, If I replaced my whole router every time a bearing went out I'd be on on router #21 right now.

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