[MFchief]

Hey All, Happy Fourth!

I was making a small control panel for a project today and it got me thinking about how we as CNC'rs go about our work.

The panel was very simple and quickly modeled up in Fusion 360, the main reason for even doing it was I needed a 45mm square hole. But it turned out to need about a dozen holes with three different sizes, and of course, none of the sizes were ones I use a lot, so there were no drills already in tool holders, except for the spotter.

But it dawned on me that this was not a high precision project, so I just did cam for the spotter and the square hole. Cut that with no problems and went to the drill press to finish the holes. Everything worked out fine and, and I'm sure it went quicker than measuring the drill, plugging them into the tool table and then using CNC to drill the holes.

So, all of this is to ask the question, do most folks do some version of this splitting the work between CNC and manual, or do we just model everything and CNC it?

I think I have a tendency to use CNC sometimes, just because I can. Wondering if l"m the only one? LoL

Terry

[Steve Seebold]

I'll just model it and cut it in the CNC.

I set all my tool lengths in the offset page and NEVER use the tool library.

I have used as many as 9 tools on a job and if I push myself I can have all 9 tool lengths set in less than 3 minutes.

[TurboStep]

I'll just model it and cut it in the CNC.
I set all my tool lengths in the offset page and NEVER use the tool library.
I have used as many as 9 tools on a job and if I push myself I can have all 9 tool lengths set in less than 3 minutes.

You've said this many times, and last time I asked for more information:

Thanks for the generous offer to call me in Switzerland but fortunately that won't be necessary. I've been using PathPilot for the last 2 years (how time flies!) and I'm very happy with it. I'm just curious, I no longer have a running Mach3 installation but I've reviewed the YouTube videos from Greg and I can't imagine how you could set up Mach3 to work with different tool lengths WITHOUT using the tool table either directly or indirectly - unless you use work offsets?
Perhaps you could enlighten us?
Step

but you didn't respond. Please enlighten us
Step

[popspipes]

Hey All, Happy Fourth!

I was making a small control panel for a project today and it got me thinking about how we as CNC'rs go about our work.

The panel was very simple and quickly modeled up in Fusion 360, the main reason for even doing it was I needed a 45mm square hole. But it turned out to need about a dozen holes with three different sizes, and of course, none of the sizes were ones I use a lot, so there were no drills already in tool holders, except for the spotter.

But it dawned on me that this was not a high precision project, so I just did cam for the spotter and the square hole. Cut that with no problems and went to the drill press to finish the holes. Everything worked out fine and, and I'm sure it went quicker than measuring the drill, plugging them into the tool table and then using CNC to drill the holes.

So, all of this is to ask the question, do most folks do some version of this splitting the work between CNC and manual, or do we just model everything and CNC it?

I think I have a tendency to use CNC sometimes, just because I can. Wondering if l"m the only one? LoL

Terry

I use CNC every time I can, I can still remember how hard it is to do some things manually that this thing does with ease!! I make some parts with odd angles and radius's and 3 d holes, this would be impossible for me to do on a manual machine.........

[Jim Dawson]

I continuously use a combination of CNC and manual. My mill will switch back and forth in seconds. Many times I find it easier to drill holes manually rather than programming the machine and dealing with tool offsets, even when using the 4th axis. It takes longer to do the programming for the drilling operations than it does to manually spot, drill and tap if needed. Just run the same program for each operation and run the quill manually, and do the tool offset with the knee. I normally use the drill press for countersinking and deburring holes.

[GLCarlson]

Most of my stuff is one-offs for electronics, shop projects, and the occasional bail-out a friend with a broken whatever. I use a combination. Anything other than a nominally round hole < 1/2" gets CNC'd; holes that can be drilled are usually spotted on the Tormach and then drilled (or drilled/tapped) manually, as that's easier than setting up a bunch of different diameter drills. If it's all one or two drills, though, it stays on the CNC.

Comes down to how many tools I have to set up in the tool table. I keep a stock set, but don't have a lot of uncommitted holders so that drives my machining strategy.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

By FAR the best "tool" to have for "manual" machining is a GOOD pendant with a GOOD MPG. Not a God-awful Shuttle Pro or Jog Shuttle, but a real pendant, with a real MPG. That beats even hand-machining on a manual machine for speed and precision.

Regards,
Ray L.

[Steve Seebold]

You've said this many times, and last time I asked for more information:

but you didn't respond. Please enlighten us
Step

Step, I am still a Mach III user. I know nothing about Path Pilot.

[mountaindew]

I use code and numbered tools for all operations I can. Not that hard to setup tools for your project. Also gives me time to think about what I am doing rather then just the normal plug and play. It helps to have about 20 or so 1/4 -3/8 and 1/2 chucks and I keep 2 large tool box drawers full of index drill sets and packages of 10 of the most used bits. And reamers for more precise work. Almost every order I place with Tormach has a couple of #2 jacobs taper holders and 1/4 drill chucks. Makes the tool setup faster. Steve's note on another thread about he only uses ER collets for his drill bits was awesome. I started out that way a couple years ago and quickly run out of money

[eltejano]

I'll just model it and cut it in the CNC.

I set all my tool lengths in the offset page and NEVER use the tool library.

I have used as many as 9 tools on a job and if I push myself I can have all 9 tool lengths set in less than 3 minutes.

So you set your tool lengths individually for each tool in every job? Holy ****, I would spend half of my time setting tool lengths if I did that. I do spot checks to make sure the offsets are correct and a tool has not pulled, but once it is set, its in there and I dont mess with it unless I change a tool.

May I as why you choose to do it the way you do it?

[kstrauss]

Steve says that it is quick and that he can measure 9 tools in 3 minutes. I wish that he'd reveal his trick!

[Jim Dawson]

Steve says that it is quick and that he can measure 9 tools in 3 minutes. I wish that he'd reveal his trick!

I can also.....With a tape measure

[MFchief]

Jim, your mill sounds pretty cool, what brand/model is it? When you switch from CNC to manual, then want to go back to CNC, what happens? Does it keep track of XYZ even when in manual mode?

Terry

[Jim Dawson]

Jim, your mill sounds pretty cool, what brand/model is it? When you switch from CNC to manual, then want to go back to CNC, what happens? Does it keep track of XYZ even when in manual mode?

Terry

It started out life as a 2 axis Eagle mill, manufactured by Topwell in Taiwan. 3V class, a bit bigger than a Series 1 BP with a 10x50 table. There are a number of these machines around that were fitted with Anilam CNC controllers and Baldor servos and spindle motor and then marketed by USA distributors. After extensive modifications by me, it is now a 4 axis machine. The Z axis is the quill, but has a lever to select auto or manual that disengages the drive train, then you select Z axis on and off in software. It came with handwheels on both the X & Y. All axes can be auto or manual in any combination.

The 1 micron magnetic scales are tied into the motion controller, and read out on the DRO display in both manual and auto mode. It also has a DRO readout for the knee, but the knee is not under computer control.....yet The only time you lose position is if you lose power. I wrote my own CNC software and upgraded the controls. Typical accuracy is < +/- 0.0003 in all axes.

[Steve Seebold]

Steve says that it is quick and that he can measure 9 tools in 3 minutes. I wish that he'd reveal his trick!

I can tell you how I do it in Mach III, but I don't know Path Pilot.

[MFchief]

Jim, that's a great sounding machine, it must be a lot of fun to operate.

Terry

[kstrauss]

Most of us started with Mach3 so tell us how to do it with Mach. Perhaps there is a way to do the same thing with Pathpilot.

[popspipes]

I am thinking that the tool table and the offset page in PP or Mach are one and the same?? I just set the offsets for the tools that I have in holders and use them until they are dull or break etc., saves going thru all of them, just set the new/odd ones and done.

I do use the tool library in Sprutcam and its set up the same as the offset page in PP as far as the tool numbers and diameters, PP sets the length of them. I have never used a diameter in PP. If I need to change the diameter I do it in sprutcam with the tool diameter or the stock option.

[Jim Dawson]

Jim, that's a great sounding machine, it must be a lot of fun to operate.

Terry

Thank you Terry.

It is fun, and really pretty simple. In writing my own software I was able to add features that you don't normally find in CNC control software. Just things that make it more user friendly, and things that actually make sense to an old manual machinist. About 4 years ago I couldn't even spell CNC

[nitewatchman]

Not trying to get into a "my dog is meaner than your dog" discussion but with a TLO probe and ATC it actually takes less than 3 minutes.

I use a CNCNeeds TLO Setter II Probe (I think they are now defunct) to automatically measure tool lengths and load the offsets into the tool offset table. It is as simple as placing the TLO anywhere the on or above the table that can be reached by the spindle, positioning the machine spindle above TLO probe spindle and clicking on "Touch Off Entire Tray" or something like that on the ATC Screen (both Mach III AND PathPilot have this) and the machine will measure, calculate and load the offset for every ACTIVE tool in the tray to the Tool Offset Table. I emphasis ACTIVE because if a tool is simply removed from the tray and not deleted, the machine will try to set the length of an empty spindle which can be really bad if the probe spindle slips inside the empty spindle bore. If there are only 3 active tools in the tray only those three tools will be measured. So no typing, misplaced decimal points, transposed numbers, plain mistakes, etc.

This works really fast and pretty easy. The operation takes 20 to 30 seconds per tool depending on how far Z has to move from the Tool Change Height to the probe height. On my probe accuracy (as close as I can measure) is in the 0,0007" range and repeatability is in the 0,0003" to 0.0005" range. After the offsets are loaded, I use a 1-2-3 block with the tool tip initially positioned below the top of the block. I then raise the tool until the block will just slip under the tool with drag, the tool position is then set to +2.0000" fixing Z zero on the top surface of the part or setup datum on a fixture. This sets zero for the tool being touched (or untouched depending upon how you look at it) and every tool measured by the TLO to the top surface of the part or fixture datum. This has proven accurate enough that I have setup in this fashion and cut the top of a surface taking care to get a high quality finish and then gone back deleted the offsets and repeated the setup including loading the offsets and setting zero. The cut is then repeated and the cutter path is within 0.001" to 0.0015" of the original which in my opinion is about what the accuracy of the PCNC1100 is.

Just my experience - YMMV.