[Rekd]

No Matt, not Bush bashing

Oh, really?

George Bush and John Howard, have bought untold shame on both of our countries.

There is more shame when you feel your own country (and mine) and especially the current leaders trying to defend them are to blame for a problem that has existed for thousands of years.

[Rekd]

Oh, really?



There is more shame when you feel your own country (and mine) and especially the current leaders trying to defend them are to blame for a problem that has existed for thousands of years.

Thousands of years, benny, thousands of years.

[Geof]

Thousands of years, benny, thousands of years.

Actually no not thousands.

The current terrorists are happy with the state of affairs that existed about a thousand years ago when their ancestors had successfully invaded a whole bunch of places. They are upset about what happened during the past 300 to 800 years when they were booted out of these places.

[7446 Guy]

Anyone see 300 yet, you Rekd? VERY errie parallels to our current situation with our own inner politics and attempt at preservation of culture.

I really like how foreigners put down the US on a daily rant, or tell us to submit to international law.

Just be sure to drop off a "Thank You Card" to my uncles who made sure your not speaking German...while your at it...maybe even a card for my cousins too who will try and make sure your not forced to read the Koran anytime soon.

I'm just disappointed in our Presidents lack of aggressive leadership with Syria and Iran. Those countries should be potholes

[fizzissist]

Thousands of years, benny, thousands of years.

One of my coworkers was talking to an afghan student here just after the russians left his country. He asked the student what was going to happen, "..now that you've kicked the russians out?" The response was pretty revealing in terms of the culture in the middle east as a whole. He said "We'll go back to what we were doing before they came. Fighting amongst ourselves."

The tribal clashes have gone on for thousands of years, yes, but the Great Satan US has only been around for a little over a couple of centuries. For being the new kids on the block, we've managed to endear ourselves to them pretty well. We're amongst their biggest customers, and biggest enemies.

Bernard Lewis' book What Went Wrong?: The Clash Between Islam and Modernity in the Middle East does a very good job of giving insight as to why the middle east began to lag behind the 'west' technologically, and why we are it's enemies. Sure, a lot of people who read it criticize Lewis for innacuracy, racism, failing to answer his own question....but for me it was very consistent with the personalities I've dealt with first hand in the here and now.

Bashing Bush and the GOP isn't going to change anything in the minds of middle easterners, any more than electing Hillary is. They're going to hate us. If we withdrew totally from all middle eastern countries, they'd hate us. They don't even like themselves, and the suicide bombing of innocent children in their own countries is proof.

To everyone who claims that this whole Iraq thing is about Big Oil (which it is) and we shouldn't be doing it, then quit driving your cars, using foreign based 'fossil fuel' energy, and quit doing anything that gives any middle eastern country a profit. Set them free, make them independent, and DO YOUR PART! Quit being a hypocrite.

I think we should use up all the foreign oil as fast as we can till it is all gone. Then, the middle east can go back to living on goat meat and dates, we can leave, take out of their countries everything that isn't bronze, and let them go back to bashing each other over the head. No oil, no problem.

Disclaimer #1: The power to run my CNCs comes directly from US mined coal fired energy. The power to build my one of my CNCs came from a combination of natural gas-fired, hydroelectric, coal, and nuclear (pronounced 'knu-kya-ler') from S. Kalifornia. God (and Unocal) only knows where the gas for my car originates from.

[dertsap]

I really like how foreigners put down the US on a daily rant, or tell us to submit to international law.

Just be sure to drop off a "Thank You Card" to my uncles who made sure your not speaking German

that was a WORLD WAR look at the history books , and see what ALL the allied forces did , many brave men died to to preserve our freedom , many of my family fought and died or fought and survived ,
show some respect to what is beyond your blinders

as for terrorists their throats should be cut on the spot

[7446 Guy]

that was a WORLD WAR look at the history books , and see what ALL the allied forces did , many brave men died to to preserve our freedom , many of my family fought and died or fought and survived ,
show some respect to what is beyond your blinders

as for terrorists their throats should be cut on the spot

Your taking me out of context. I respect those that lost/risked their lives US or allied. I'm talking about the US bashers, foreign and domestic.

But other contries need to take off their blinders. Australia, UK, Canada, France, Spain, Europe. Their going to get breeded out my muslim immigrants, who will in turn birth islamofascistism.

France is lost as far as I'm concerned, Oz / France has already had their riots between locals and muslims in the streets. They will breed them out slowly

[dertsap]

do you understand muslims account for 2/3 of the world (religious)population
the radicals are not even a mere fraction of that population there are many decent hard working muslims living all over the world including the US
the issue is how as a world full of people how do we live and accept one another , if we catagorize all muslems as terrorists , as time goes by watch the s@%t fly

[7446 Guy]

do you understand muslims account for 2/3 of the world (religious)population
the radicals are not even a mere fraction of that population there are many decent hard working muslims living all over the world including the US
the issue is how as a world full of people how do we live and accept one another , if we catagorize all muslems as terrorists , as time goes by watch the s@%t fly

No, but they reamin bystanders and let themselves get rolled over.

Sort of like how German peeps let Nazi's run everything. Islam = Submit.

Show me a free Islamic Nation, their religion dictates their lives. Islam (Middle East culture) and Christianity (The West) will never mesh.

I have yet to see an Islami leader openly slam the radicals or hold protests defending the the oppression of our culture

[fizzissist]

I won't go so far as to categorize all muslims as terrorists, but after reading the quran, they are far less tolerant of christians than christians are of them....in fact they're far less tolerant of any religion....

"2:99 Verily We have revealed unto thee clear tokens, and only miscreants will disbelieve in them."
......literally translated: only evil people don't believe as we do.

..better yet:
"2:191 And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers."

Their religion has a clear and unmistakable dictate. Those who don't opt to slay us where they find us, like right here in our own country...you know, the one that allows them to freely practice their chosen religion?....are obviously more pragmatic in their approach. Its a bit tougher to bully when you're not in the majority.

Just stumbled on this really fun website!
http://www.globalincidentmap.com/home.php

[One of Many]

Nope, that was not a rant. I recognize that as regurgitating NPR talking points in hopes it emulates superior knowledge of these issues as well informed. Disregarding the core problems of each and ignores the acts of evil that lays claim to intentions with much bigger plans for death and destruction in its path. So it goes. Tie the hands of government to protect and serve, then unleash the likes of the ACLU on anyone attempting to do the job once placed in a life or death situation as an occupational hazard.

On another note:

Strange how some can feel cheated when a company that pays millions of dollars in taxes gets a 10% relief of the burden. In their mind, that is a subsidizing big business. At the same time wishing their business(which isn't very profitable on its own) was subsidized by a government which they despise. They've had the best mind numbing training public funds can buy........after all, it is following the NPR business model. Not to mention passing on the Blame America first psychobabble of Nazi Propaganda Radio as a relevant source. NPR would be proud!

It makes one think their jealousy, envy and desires are emotions they expect to be satisfied by the government at all costs. Even if it means using emotion to enact their ideals over what is fair and poignantly beneficial to them while taking advantage of someone else. Hmmmm, isn't this the very same thing they deride the USA for? So many times, I see a common thread of their complaints they argue against, ends up being something similar they wish to do or control in a different breath.

It's the tale that wags the dog, ain't it? Or would that be TAIL? depends on who tells the story don't it?

DC

[ynneb]

Great, now I understand why its right to torture people and invade their countries, even if 99% of them have nothing to do with the problem.
That is what my initial post is about.

[7446 Guy]

It's terrible isn't it?

Just think of all those in the world trade center that day. They all died and never once probably gave a thought about Islam or their politics or ideology.

[Madclicker]

Great, now I understand why its right to torture people and invade their countries, even if 99% of them have nothing to do with the problem.
That is what my initial post is about.

That's just psychobabble. Why don't you just add rape and pillage to the list of crimes? What a load of crap!

At least our countries have leaders with balls, even if some of the citizens dont.

God help the world if Al gore had stolen the election.

[ynneb]

Now I understand why two wrongs make a right. I'm learning heaps.

[7446 Guy]

All will cometh in time.

See, it's better to get rid of thousands upon thousands over there so there is no risk of killing another 3k of our citizens over here.

[307startup]

Criticizing your government or your leaders is not unAmerican or anti-patriotic. It's good practice as a CITIZEN. If the elected officials do not act in the interests of those they serve, then they are in office illegally, committing illegal acts. That simple. Please tell me how my brothers in arms dying in Iraq is helping democracy or freedom in America? Does anyone think for a second that a dictator like Saddam is going to tolerate or allow organized criminals (terrorists) to live and train in his country when they could undermine him? I find that hard to believe when he had absolutely no problem gassing and bombing hundreds of thousands of his own countrymen. Obviously Saddam was Muslim, but he was not a "true" muslim by their definition.

As to drawing parallels to the movie 300...when George W. Bush leads the charge on an attack, I will give him two big thumbs up and lay my life down for him. Also, Greece didn't attack Persia. Leonidas didn't exit Greece to meet Xerxes on his territory, he made a stand in his own country. Please don't make Georgie out to be noble. My dog has traits that man will never learn, and is probably smarter. As long as he continues to sacrifice my friends and family like meat to the grinder I will continue to criticize his every move and effort. A retard who managed to win a national election that hinged on "hanging chads" in the state where his OWN brother was the governor was all the redflag I needed to realize we are in deep ****. The honorable thing to do would have been to concede defeat due to ethics regarding the situation. I know that Al Gore wouldn't have the balls to retaliate, for that I am glad that Bush was in office. We should have stopped in Afghanistan. That was justified. We had good intel. Iraq is about finishing daddy's f-up. Nothing more. When you can show me some benefit gained for one wounded, maimed or dead soldier, sailor or marine then I will acquiesce. And please don't say cheap gas. I'd rather your car sit on blocks in your front yard than have your gas-swilling SUV wandering about the lanes of traffic as the reward for one-legged marines and soldiers. Cheap gas is not a hallmark of democracy. It is a function of free trade and capitalism.

As a veteran of Bosnia, Haiti, and Somalia I understand what it is like to be under fire and experiencing hell. I know what confusion and chaos war can be. The mistakes and bureaucratic bull**** that costs people their lives and prevents a mission from being completed. Finish this war? For what? Every service person swears to uphold the constitution first and foremost, then the lawful commands of his superiors. Nowhere in our Constitution does it say we are in the business of "nation-building" and exporting democracy. We should withdraw immediately and let Iraq implode.

When the power vaccuum starts pulling Syria and Iran in, we backdoor them and cut off their supply routes and start mowing them down as they retreat to their respective countries. There is no defense in them leaving their country to take advantage of such a situation. That would be a morally and legally justifiable position for us as a nation and power. We would also have managed to eliminate millions of Islamo-fascists, with very little of our weapons and manpower. Abandon them and let them cut eachothers heads off. When they step foot out of their own country, cut them down. Manage them as separate herds of sheep, instead of as lone coyotes. We should be isolating them as nations and allowing them all the exporting of crude oil the system will tolerate. We don't need them for any other purpose. If they decide to get wily and stop selling to us, we prevent them from selling to anybody else. If the world wants to complain we sever the infrastructure from inside the exporting nations. The only way it will be rebuilt is if we allow it. We turn the violent nature of the islamo-nazis on themselves. No flights in or out. No importing. We cut them off globally. Only when we dedicate ourselves whole-heartedly to ending "violent Islam" will I support the war on terror. I'm tired of half-assing things. We don't need to stoop to their level. We simply change the rules of engagement. No more man-for-man. We act as a monolithic force, impenetrable and immovable. We stop all conduct that goes against the welfare of the world. Plain and simple.

[One of Many]

Ah, yes and kind hearted lads are they, that we have put under interrogation pressures that some call torture. What would you do, given the task of gaining information to protect 99% OF THE WORLD that would prefer to live in peace, free from oppressive religions and ruthless tyrants? Then what would you do when 33% didn't like how you got the information even though it saved more than it hurt? You'd think they were fricken ingrates, but carry on for the other 66% that do appreciate the security measures.

If that is not a system you would prefer not to live under. Why would you not want to grant the same gift you have been given by the unfortunate price of someone else's blood? Was that blood wasted on you or me?

This region is far to important to leave to the wolves that teach more hatred that threatens to deliver death to anyone they see as an infidel. They prove that time after time with mass murder of their own in grocery markets and school yards. It is not that we do not want to help in all areas this crap is going on. That is a direct result of military budget cuts that leave us far too short of boots on the ground to handle it more efficiently. If the UN had any human compassion instead of arrogance, they would also step up as a United front against the actions of terrorist supporters. Instead they turn a blind eye to it as status is more important than responsibility to world order. They just want to make sure the US keeps funding the sorority party, but have little else to offer.

Pitching conspiracy theories and presumptions of sinister motives and dirty laundry on our side is no more proven intentional than a hot day proves Global Warming. The media puts it out there as bait and some are predisposed to buying into it. Like minds sing and their choir carries their echoes.

It took real men to perceive WWII for what it was. We might just need more men like that in the near future.

DC

[307startup]

I wasn't arguing for or against the war on terror and keeping the peace. Just the excuses and half-ass tactics used to employ it. I for one have served and would serve again if it makes a difference. As Patton said, "Why die for your country when you can make the sons-of-*****es die for theirs?" I understand the sacrifice the armed forces make. I appreciate it every single day I draw breath as I know freedom isn't free. I just want more for my "blood money" than cheap gas and a "warm fuzzy" for combating terrorism. If my brothers-in-arms must die, make the enemy suffer for every death caused. When every Islamic extremist capable of making babies is dead, the problem will cease. Until that day, we are fighting a war that cannot be won. Hard line tactics in a hard line scenario. It's not getting any softer, we are. We don't have to torture or rape and pillage. We just need to kill, kill, kill until there aren't any more extremist "volunteers" to kill. When we turn the arid desert into fertile ground from the millions of corpses and gallons of blood they shed, we will have stopped the export of their brand of terror. If that also means killing the women and children of the "old guard" then so be it. A 12 year old boy with an AK47 is just as lethal as a 21 year old man. As long as they have the means to propogate their brand of evil, they will.

[One of Many]

Technically, I wasn't responding to your post WYLD.

I do sincerely wish were were not put into the postion of need to kill anyone. And I agree it has not been handled very well in many respects, but i am no armchair general either.

I can understand our reserved action in order to gain the trust of the majority of the population. However, limitations in action do prolong the stay. Meanwhile we have beaurocrats at home playing political games that do more harm than good.

DC