[SCzEngrgGroup]

I received an Acorn yesterday, and a few short hours later was putting it back in its box, to be returned for a refund, after suffering the most absolutely appalling "support" from the moderator of their customer forum, "cnckeith". Here's what happened:

After connecting the board to my PC, I installed the software. Which did not work.... After Setup.exe finishes, it launches the "Mill Wizard", which is their hardware configuration program. The Wizard put up a dialog telling me it could not proceed, because the firmware on the board needed to up updated. I followed the instructions to perform the update, which did not work... So, I made a post on the forum, asking how to proceed.

While I waited for a response, I decided to try un-installing and re-installing the software to a different location. I had first installed it on my E: drive. This time, I installed it on my C: drive. This time it worked, so it was clear they have a bug in their installer that does not correctly handle installing on other than the C: drive, even though the software allows it to be done. So, I made a post on the forum pointing out this problem.

Next, I tried just poking around in the software, to see what was there. I tried to get into the configuration screens, to see what options were available. But, getting into the configuration pages REQUIRES a password, and I was not given a password, nor could I find ANY mention of what the default password is, or how to change it in ANY of the many documents I had downloaded from their website. The user manual DID mention that there WAS a password, and that it could be changed by changing parameter 42. But, you can't change parameter 42 unless you HAVE the current password!

So, back to the forum, to make a post asking "What is the password"? I was directed to a 10 minute video, which I watched (even though I HATE learning by watching videos!). The video showed how to change the password by editing parameter 42, and mentioned, in passing, that the default password was "137". I decided to change the password to something I would remember. I tried SEVERAL different 3-digit values, and NONE worked. Finally, I remembered that the video showed how to enter a 4-digit value. So, I tried a 4-digit value, and it worked! So, back to the forum, to inform them that the software would NOT accept ANY 3-digit password, and was told I was wrong, and was told I shouldn't even be TRYING to change the password by editing the parameter, but should instead use the Wizard to do it! Never mind that the guy that told me this was the very same "cnckeith" who made the video showing how to do it by changing the parameter!.

So, I went to the Wizard, which is a completely separate program. I found the page that allows setting the password, and was surprised to see that it told me the current password was "1000", and that password protection was turned OFF! In fact, the password at that time was "1234", and it was very definitely turned ON! So, back to the forum to report another bug.

I started to work on figuring out how to connect the board to the machine, so I downloaded the "Acorn Specification Manual" to study the I/O specs, and make sure I understood how to connect everything without blowing something up. But, I found the diagram of the board did not match my board, and there were several inconsistencies in the document ,such as referring to the DB-25 connector as H4 on one page, and as H6 on another. Back to the forum to report that the "Specification Manual"contained several errors, and did not match the hardware I received. In response, I receive a, frankly, rather snotty message that I was obviously looking at the v2 manual, while I had a v3 board. I pointed out that I had downloaded the manual from the Acorn page of THEIR website, and was not even aware that there WERE v2 and v3 boards! This same thing happened a month ago, when I downloaded a "G-code/M-code manual" from the same page. When I raised questions about the content of that manual, which referred to sections of the document which didn't even exist, I was treated as if it were MY fault for downloading the ONLY document I could find that seemed to contain the information I needed. Interesting that today, he POSTED an updated Specification Manual with all the errors I pointed out fixed!

I moved on to trying to understand how to configure the Home/Limit switches so they all went to a single input, rather than requiring a separate input for each axis, consuming half of the very few available Acorn inputs. To, back to the forum again, to ask how to set this up. The answer from cnckeith was "Use HomeAll". NO explanation of where to "use HomeAll", or what the behavior would be. So, I asked "Where is this documented?", and "What does it do?". The response was "Search the forum", which I had already done. Searching the forum for "HomeAll" turned up exactly 4 hits, TWO of which were in MY post! The other two were totally unrelated to what I was asking.

Back to the forum again, to ask for more information, and I was told, by cnckeith, that "Perhaps the Acorn is not for you."! I asked for clarification as to why my questions were apparently considered unreasonable, and received something close to a rant,from cnckeith that the answers to my questions were "right in front of me" the whole time, and he then accused me of "throwing rocks" for reporting blatant bugs in their software and documentation.

To say I was stunned would be an understatement! Here I was TRYING to work through the installation of this board and software, running face-first into one bug after another, finding one problem after another in the documentation, getting little or no help from the Centroid "support" person, and then being told it was MY fault I couldn't make it work. I have NEVER been treated so shabbily by any of the hundreds of vendors I've worked with over the years.

I stepped away for a while, and when I came back, found the entire thread had been deleted, and my forum account closed!

Now, you could well think this was just my problem, but within a few hours I heard from several other people who were watching that thread, some of who have received or witnessed similar treatment themselves, and so far everyone I've talked agrees "cnckeith" was WAY out of line.

So, my advice is "Caveat Emptor". Take this for whatever it's worth, but If you're considering an Acorn, you might want to think twice, because without support (and that forum is your ONLY source of support for the Acorn) the hardware could well become little more than an expensive paperweight. Needless to say, neither I, nor my customers, will EVER be looking at Centroid again, nor will quite of few people I know who were planning to follow my lead.

Regards,
Ray L.

[samco]

According to their site - you can get factory support...

- Optional Factory Direct Technical Support: $90/hr.

I will say this again - it is one of the few hobby priced systems that does encoder threading and rigid tapping... (but of course I use linuxcnc which is free and does all that...)

sam

- because without support (and that forum is your ONLY source of support for the Acorn) the hardware could well become little more than an expensive paperweight. Needless to say, neither I, nor my customers, will EVER be looking at Centroid again, nor will quite of few people I know who were planning to follow my lead.

Regards,
Ray L.

[islaww]

Ray...
Again, sorry about your bad experience. I'm going to assume that I am the: "Another, a long-time member, with lots of posts, but never before in this forum." guy.

I can tell you that:
My post was 100% unsolicited. Period. I made my post in response to your whining. Period.

Secondly, I am much more likely to post Centroid Acorn info on their forum, as people looking for Acorn info will go there first. I have found over the years that this forum is filled with the frustrated rants of inexperienced and bad experienced users like yourself, and I don't like bad JUJU.

So.... back to the honey and vinegar thing.... Again, you have posted a list of uninformed guesses as fact and listed the things these users, including myself are doing wrong. I rest my case.

[daniellyall]

Way to go Gary insult the heck out of someone for posting their problems.

[Marty_Escarcega]

HI Ray,
I spent a lot of time making videos and posting them to YouTube with the aim of trying to simplify connecting up Acorn. I even went out and created one on Sunday evening just for one guy and it helped him and it started to help others. I am by NO means an expert. I don't work for Centroid, I am one of their beta testers. I believe in it and really enjoy working with it.

It truly is a good product and I have enjoyed working with the Team at Centroid. Its only been out 5 months, they listened to the users and now in its 3rd hardware revision to support assignable pin outputs on the DB25 along with a couple of other customer driven improvements. Remarkable to me how fast they have responded. They are not a large company.

I truly wish you well in your projects, if you decide to give Centroid Acorn another go, I will personall try and help if you get stuck, and that is a promise. I'm sorry if I some how missed your troubles with Acorn. I wished I could have helped you or helped you more. The number of folks using Acorn in such a short period of time has jumped far beyond anyone's expectations so its been hard to keep up.

It is a great time to be involved with DIY CNC SO many great options to choose from and SO many people willing to share their experiences and try to help others. We are a great Community.

Respectfully & Sincerely,
Marty
(martyscncgarage)

[jalessi]

HI Ray,
I spent a lot of time making videos and posting them to YouTube with the aim of trying to simplify connecting up Acorn. I even went out and created one on Sunday evening just for one guy and it helped him and it started to help others. I am by NO means an expert. I don't work for Centroid, I am one of their beta testers. I believe in it and really enjoy working with it.

It truly is a good product and I have enjoyed working with the Team at Centroid. Its only been out 5 months, they listened to the users and now in its 3rd hardware revision to support assignable pin outputs on the DB25 along with a couple of other customer driven improvements. Remarkable to me how fast they have responded. They are not a large company.

I truly wish you well in your projects, if you decide to give Centroid Acorn another go, I will personall try and help if you get stuck, and that is a promise. I'm sorry if I some how missed your troubles with Acorn. I wished I could have helped you or helped you more. The number of folks using Acorn in such a short period of time has jumped far beyond anyone's expectations so its been hard to keep up.

It is a great time to be involved with DIY CNC SO many great options to choose from and SO many people willing to share their experiences and try to help others. We are a great Community.

Respectfully & Sincerely,
Marty
(martyscncgarage)

Marty,

Stepping up to the plate and offering help is what our community is all about, I am extremely proud to be in your company Sir!

Have a most awesome afternoon!

Jeff...

[cut2cut]

HI Ray,
I spent a lot of time making videos and posting them to YouTube with the aim of trying to simplify connecting up Acorn. I even went out and created one on Sunday evening just for one guy and it helped him and it started to help others. I am by NO means an expert. I don't work for Centroid, I am one of their beta testers. I believe in it and really enjoy working with it.

It truly is a good product and I have enjoyed working with the Team at Centroid. Its only been out 5 months, they listened to the users and now in its 3rd hardware revision to support assignable pin outputs on the DB25 along with a couple of other customer driven improvements. Remarkable to me how fast they have responded. They are not a large company.

I truly wish you well in your projects, if you decide to give Centroid Acorn another go, I will personall try and help if you get stuck, and that is a promise. I'm sorry if I some how missed your troubles with Acorn. I wished I could have helped you or helped you more. The number of folks using Acorn in such a short period of time has jumped far beyond anyone's expectations so its been hard to keep up.

It is a great time to be involved with DIY CNC SO many great options to choose from and SO many people willing to share their experiences and try to help others. We are a great Community.

Respectfully & Sincerely,
Marty
(martyscncgarage)

Thanks Marty,

Your video's have been a great help to my success installing the Acorn. As others have said, watching the setup videos, including yours, has been a great help. I have, with my diy mills moved from Mach3 to linuxCNC and now Centroid Acorn. So far, in my short time using it, I feel like I can use the mill without hovering over the E-stop button and its fairly intuitive too.

As far as why I posted here after a long hiatus, I'm actually getting back into hobbyist machining due to the Acorn. As I said above, its making me feel like I can trust the hardware and software to do what its supposed to do without worry. Far more enjoyable that way ! So the foundation is good, they might need to listen to the criticism more, but looking at the timeline, I think it was a bit of knee jerk reaction on everyone's part. I just happened along this thread due to the headline and noticing the date between the first post and the author giving up. It caught my attention. No conspiracy here, and I'd bet others posted for similar reasons. The Acorn has been a good experience for me, so it didn't make much sense to hear this story. I hope everyone can make up and move on and learn from it. I bet neither party wanted it to go this way, thats for sure.

Jake

[frijoli]

Ray didn't get banned because he was pointing out problems, it was his attitude and accusatory manor.
I wish Ray the best in whatever CNC project he has next, but I assure you that the Centroid folks are doing their best with the relatively new board on the market.

Of course this is all my opinion, as well as it was Ray's opinion as to "why".

Clay

[LeeWay]

I value Ray's information highly. If I had not already bought everything and researched as much as I have, I might have considered sending it back. Had I not already bought it, I would not have. Many of us know how customer service should function. I pride myself in offering the best possible support that I can. My customers appreciate that and I do get a lot of repeat customers. I simply treat them the way that I would like to be treated.

My products are not technology related though and I understand that customer support for those type things can be a whole different can of worms.
That does not mean that you verbally stomp on your customers when they have legitimate issues with your products.
It's Centroid's choice to use a public or at least customer based forum to help out with the workload in customer support.
It is another thing to dismiss or especially delete items where incorrect manuals, errors in board labeling, old passwords etc. have been reported.

[jalessi]

I value Ray's information highly. If I had not already bought everything and researched as much as I have, I might have considered sending it back. Had I not already bought it, I would not have. Many of us know how customer service should function. I pride myself in offering the best possible support that I can. My customers appreciate that and I do get a lot of repeat customers. I simply treat them the way that I would like to be treated.

My products are not technology related though and I understand that customer support for those type things can be a whole different can of worms.
That does not mean that you verbally stomp on your customers when they have legitimate issues with your products.
It's Centroid's choice to use a public or at least customer based forum to help out with the workload in customer support.
It is another thing to dismiss or especially delete items where incorrect manuals, errors in board labeling, old passwords etc. have been reported.

Lee,

You have brought up many valid points and I completely agree with what you are saying about customer service.

Hopefully this issue resolves itself in a positive and polite manner.

Jeff...

[Daniel92563]

I’ve had a 100 percent positive experience with my centroid acorn board and software. cnckeiths instructional youtube video on using the software’s conversational cam was amazing. i’m glad i switched over from mach4 and flashcut. No regrets. It does suck that they deleted your post but I agree with Franco that staying positive on any forum helps. Also, i’m sure they keep the cost of the board down by offering support at 90 dollars an hour for those that need it.

[daniellyall]

Daniel92563 are you able to help to solve any off rays problems with the board, or post some links to the correct up to date info for him.

[Daniel92563]

Daniel92563 are you able to help to solve any off rays problems with the board, or post some links to the correct up to date info for him.

1. He edited his post, the most recent version has more details.
2. Yes, pay for support so you can get the detailed help you want. But, he wrote he’s returning the board.

[LeeWay]

Well reporting bugs, conflicting information in manuals, and other products errors should never have to pay for support. Needing to find out how to proceed after those issues and error messages were found should also not have to pay for support.
Support charges should be reserved for the novice and ignorant customers in the form of one to one training and hand holding through particular usage or problem. Not from someone like Ray that is highly experienced and just trying to get past some bugs that have appeared with the Centroid products to get it booted up and operating.
I will also give Keith the benefit of the doubt. Everyone has off days and no one knows what is going on on a personal level.
Most of the posts I have read from him show that he is trying to help and they are pretty concise and informative. Cordial as well. Ray is a straight shooter and tells it like it is point blank. No BS. That can be misinterpreted sometimes.

While I can see both sides and imagine exactly how it happened, I can also see how it should have happened and what kind of assistance and admissions would have retained a customer that could have indeed increased sales later on by documenting how his products could work with them.
Cooler heads generally prevail in almost all matters and this chain of events are no exception.
I do look forward to getting past Mach 3 myself and installing and ultimately using the Acorn. The machine this is going on is a relatively simple one, so I will be installing using the basics initially and following all the instructions.
I don't expect any problems, but who really does?

[DICKEYBIRD]

I try not post in contentious or negative threads usually but in this case I have to relate my experiences & voice an opinion since so much time and effort was expended by Ray to flame Acorn & Centroid.

I bought an Acorn and the Pro ($99 at the time) software the very day that they were made available to the general public. I made the switch from Mach3 to Acorn because of its encoder lathe threading and industrial software. I have since bought a second Acorn & Pro Software due to the EXTREMELY good support and performance I am experiencing with the first one. It's an American company selling quality hardware & proven software. Yes, I'm having to un-learn Mach3 Turn software and CNC12 & Intercon is a learning process but it's well worth it to me. I am VERY grateful to Centroid for the Acorn project and all the great people on the forum.

Call me a fan boy or whatever but I can assure you there are many, many happy Centroid customers and Acorn is just getting started! I am happy to go along for the ride. :cheers:

[bozidar22]

Gosh man slow it down a little, take the time to check the water conditions before jumping in head first.
Had no problems setting up the acorn board. While waiting for the board to arrive I read through the forums,watched all the videos and down loaded all the documentation. Heck i knew what the password and what the HOME ALL was before i got the acorn. Was up and running in about a half an hour.

[Turbo442]

I have been cranking through the Acorn upgrade on my lathe. I am upgrading from a reasonably well sorted Mach 3 parallel setup to Acorn. So far I have no complaints. Did I think it was going to be super easy? Probably not, but so far my experience has been positive. The Centroid forum has tons of info. Tons of you tube videos out there. Honestly when I read through the Centroid manuals I keep thinking they are really well done compared to everything else I have looked at in the hobby cnc world. I don’t think I have even posted on the centroid forum or created an account yet because I haven’t needed to. At this point I have the Z and X axis motors running and VFD spindle control working. I am starting on limit switches now. I have been in the automation industry for 20 years. If I just start working with new software/hardware and I find what I think is a bug I would generally make a note of it. But until I really get familiar with the platform and how it works I am not going to report anything. I try to spend some time getting up to speed on a new product and understand how everything works before I start making bug reports. Jumping to PathPilot sounds like your just going from the frying pan into the fire! Linux and no OEM support of non standard configurations is a deal breaker for me. Sorry if Centroid closed your forum account. That sounds like that wasn’t the right thing for them to do. If i was in your shoes I would suck it up and put that Acorn board on the Novakon. At any rate I’m pretty amazed with Acorn lathe so far myself. I have made about 6 test parts so far with out anything close to a hiccup although my configuration is still pretty limited. Hope things work out for you!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[daniellyall]

Nice so if someone has a problem it is ok to have a go at them, so what if you had a good experiences you are doing half of what ray was going to do he needed to know how to do extra stuff for a reasion, before you have a go are you doing or did apple to apple

[Fastest1]

I have enjoyed my set up and use of the Acorn.
It was and is a little different than what I was used to but that was to be expected.
The interface does seem much more professional than M3.
I too have had an issue or two with the documentation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[hackish]

Just a little note to say that when I read this thread, I almost decided to not buy an acorn. I did go through most of the systems available, and most seemed to be home-built units with a questionable amount of experience or expertise on the part of the designers. After eliminating the toys from the list, the acorn was still a strong contender with this and a few other negative reviews the major point of concern. In my case, I already had servo motors, so it appeared to be well suited. I'll see what I think when the unit arrives this week...