[MDLang]

It seems we may be encountering some resistance to change and old prejudices against using certain materials.

Like ger21 our shop has all plastic lines and has been this way for 7 years. No problems.

Mike

[ImanCarrot]

I use Aluminium "Transair tube Aliuminium 37X40" it's rated to a PMax of 13 Bar.

I second what Geof says about a dryer- I just cannot afford to have water vapour on my slideways... and change the filters regularly. The dryer should be inline after the resevoir (which didn't make sense to me, but that's what the company who service it said).

You also need to drain the resevoir tank every day (i get about a pint of water a day from mine).

Also, in the UK for insurance purposes, the system has to be inspected regularly for employer liability insurance purposes.

Also! don't be tempted to use cheap oil in your pump, it will separate and emulsify with water vapour.

[P J]

It seems we may be encountering some resistance to change and old prejudices against using certain materials.

Like ger21 our shop has all plastic lines and has been this way for 7 years. No problems.

Mike

Mike. Old prejudices against using this PVC for compressed gasses are well founded. Perhaps reinforced by the constant warnings from ALL manufactures and safety agencies? My experience in the spud gun sport confirms the inherent hazards. I did my own controlled environment research (destructive testing) on PVC and confirmed the false sense of security fostered by relying on only the PSI rating printed on the pipe.

As has been noted numerous times, piping with threads need be derated by 50%. Fittings to be derated by 50%. Temps of 140F (near the receiver) require a derating of 80%. Yep, derated BY 80% ! ! ! Cold weather demands a derating of 50% (Charts available). Ultraviolet lite exposure for 2 years demands a derating of 25%. Duration loading induced stress, cyclical shock loads of pressure and/or physical vibration further exacerbates the risk of catastrophic failure.

I can not imagine taking a chance knowing so many industrial professionals, including insurance companies, have pursued this matter with due diligence. There are several other plastic products quite suitable for compressed gasses.

[Geof]

...As has been noted numerous times, piping with threads need be derated by 50%. Fittings to be derated by 50%. Temps of 140F (near the receiver) require a derating of 80%. Yep, derated BY 80% ! ! ! Cold weather demands a derating of 50% (Charts available). Ultraviolet lite exposure for 2 years demands a derating of 25%....

Let's see: 50 + 50 + 80+ 80+ 50 + 25 = derating 285% Crikey the PVC pipes are going to be sucking air in. Have we found a new type of compressor?

Reminds me of the story about the guy who put so many fuel saving attachments on his car he kept having to empty the gas tank he was saving so much.

[P J]

Let's see: 50 + 50 + 80+ 80+ 50 + 25 = derating 285% Crikey the PVC pipes are going to be sucking air in. Have we found a new type of compressor?

Reminds me of the story about the guy who put so many fuel saving attachments on his car he kept having to empty the gas tank he was saving so much.

Geof. New type of compressor? Self powered? You may be on to something. Let's see, air rushing in, nowhere to go? Place a de Laval nozzle on one end, equip with wheels, and take it to Bonneville?

[Geof]

Geof. New type of compressor? Self powered? You may be on to something. Let's see, air rushing in, nowhere to go? Place a de Laval nozzle on one end, equip with wheels, and take it to Bonneville?

WE HAVE SOLVED THE PROBLEM OF GLOBAL WARMING. VEHICLES WHICH EMIT ONLY A RUSH OF AIR.

[P J]

WE HAVE SOLVED THE PROBLEM OF GLOBAL WARMING. VEHICLES WHICH EMIT ONLY A RUSH OF AIR.

A diplomatic way of announcing to the entire world this idea blows?

[Geof]

A diplomatic way of announcing to the entire world this idea blows?

Yes, but it is cold air, or whatever the ambient temperature is I guess, so we are still better than politicians.

[P J]

Yes, but it is cold air, or whatever the ambient temperature is I guess, so we are still better than politicians.

Way too much fun. However, I sincerely hope others reading this light hearted banter will not dismiss the real world hazards of using common PVC for shop compressed air lines.

Edit: Keep in mind the word often used is 'GRENADE' in describing a failure.

[Geof]

Way too much fun. However, I sincerely hope others reading this light hearted banter will not dismiss the real world hazards of using common PVC for shop compressed air lines.

Edit: Keep in mind the word often used is 'GRENADE' in describing a failure.

If, after reading this thread and others on this topic, someone insists on using PVC for a compressed air line they deserve to get their peanut brained head blown off. Pratical Darwinism I think it is called.

[NC Cams]

I didn't know better and duplicated what a Master's degreed engineering friend had for air pipe in his basement, namely PVC. THe stuff was installed waist high and higher in my garage and has been there since 1989 or so, hot cold, you name it.

When I moved into my current shop, the previous tennant (the landlord's father) had plumbed his air lines God knows when with PCV as well. We've been here going on 6 years and not a single issue.

The shop is pretty much ambient and higher temp and the shop lines drop to no pressure at nights when we shut off the ball valve when we turn off the compressor (minor leaks would make the compressor run during the night so we turn it off).

Yet, asside from splitting one screw in fitting due to 1/2 turn too tight, we've had no issues whatsoever with PVC. Frankly, neither did the degreed engineer friend who plumbed both his former and his latest shop with the same plastic pipe.

I can say that there were two grades of pipe at Home Depot were we got our stuff from. When we bought it, we simply bought the stuff with the highest pressure rating, glued it together and have been fat dumb and happily using it ever since.

Clearly, God wathes out for drunks and little children. I quit drinking decades ago and although I will grow old, I refuse to grow up. Maybe that's why I've been as lucky as I've been with the plastic pipe I'm using....

[Geof]

....Clearly, God wathes out for drunks and little children. ...

And degreed engineers onviously. Which is fortunate..who else would waste the time.

[P J]

I didn't know better and duplicated what a Master's degreed engineering friend had for air pipe in his basement, namely PVC. THe stuff was installed waist high and higher in my garage and has been there since 1989 or so, hot cold, you name it.

I'm confident, given enough time, we could garner myriad testimonials of those having challenged life's risks and survived. A few anecdotal recitations will not dissuade me from eliminating obvious hazards in my shop.

I wonder how much 'shop time' I would get following an 'incident' that buried shards of PVC into my wife's face? Or even allowing my children and grandchildren to be exposed because I though I was a tough guy. IMHO, The risk to others is far too great.

Forewarned is forearmed. OK, no more preaching.

[tobyaxis]

I'm confident, given enough time, we could garner myriad testimonials of those having challenged life's risks and survived. A few anecdotal recitations will not dissuade me from eliminating obvious hazards in my shop.

I wonder how much 'shop time' I would get following an 'incident' that buried shards of PVC into my wife's face? Or even allowing my children and grandchildren to be exposed because I though I was a tough guy. IMHO, The risk to others is far too great.

Forewarned is forearmed. OK, no more preaching.

Preaching????????? In no way is this Preaching. It is called Common Sense and Safety Practices. This is a very good point.

Cheers!!!!!!:cheers:

[ImanCarrot]

Pratical Darwinism I think it is called.

lol, which reminds me of my special theory of alcoholution and the fact that drinking makes you cleverer...

Alchohol kills brain cells, which many theorists fully accept. Now in any system with lots of brain cells, like a human, the stupider ones will die off soonest (according to Darwin) so drinking lots will leave all the cleverer ones.

Hence more alcohol= more intelligence

Sorry, it's nearly home time (ie nearly pub time).

[eddie6675]

I'm glad I saw this thread.. I hav'nt been using pvc for air line per say, but I did make a pnumatic tool from one. Run about 15 psi through it. I cant't imagine that's too much but still. It does get warm at times and its got moving parts- better find a different pipe. Thanks fellas!

[MDLang]

PJ,

Originally Posted by MDLang View Post
It seems we may be encountering some resistance to change and old prejudices against using certain materials.

Like ger21 our shop has all plastic lines and has been this way for 7 years. No problems.

Mike

Mike. Old prejudices against using this PVC for compressed gasses are well founded. Perhaps reinforced by the constant warnings from ALL manufactures and safety agencies? My experience in the spud gun sport confirms the inherent hazards. I did my own controlled environment research (destructive testing) on PVC and confirmed the false sense of security fostered by relying on only the PSI rating printed on the pipe.

I apologize for not being more specific with regards to the PLASTIC in use. I never said we use PVC.

I should have mentioned that we DO NOT use PVC plastic but use HDPE plastic for our compressed air lines

Polyethylene, More specifically PE100 (HDPE) is the APPROVED plastic for compressed air lines.

Check it out. Old prejudices indeed are usually well founded at some point but die hard because they become generalizations.

"PLASTIC for use in air lines is bad."

Not true, but like you said "PVC for use as airlines" is.

Mike

[P J]

PJ,

I apologize for not being more specific with regards to the PLASTIC in use. I never said we use PVC.

I should have mentioned that we DO NOT use PVC plastic but use HDPE plastic for our compressed air lines

Polyethylene, More specifically PE100 (HDPE) is the APPROVED plastic for compressed air lines.

Check it out. Old prejudices indeed are usually well founded at some point but die hard because they become generalizations.

"PLASTIC for use in air lines is bad."

Not true, but like you said "PVC for use as airlines" is.
Mike

Mike, perhaps I was presumpeous in equating your use of 'plastic' to the use of 'PVC' in the thread. The above clarification resolves any question re the matter. I'm sure we are on the same side of the issue. Even to the notion that 'Old Wives Tales' do persist in this rapidly changing world which perpetuates old fears.

We're cool with this. Thanx for the update. Lloyd

[wddanie]

Did you use the IPEX and how do you like it? I have to setup a compressor and copper looks way to expensive now and I am just starting the search for alternatives. I'd appreciate your advice.

Thanks,

Doug Danielson

[mxtras]

Copper prices are dropping like Senator Craig in an airport restroom. You guys might want to keep your eyes on the price and pounce when it bottoms out.

Scott