[Geof]

Sequestering carbon dioxide has been proposed as a method for combatting Global Warming. That is removing Carbon Dioxide from the atmosphere or never allowing it to escape into the atmosphere. This is done by sealing the Carbon Dioxide away somewhere; Deep Ocean Trenches, underneath Salt Domes in oilfields or chemically combining the Carbon so it is not available to form Carbon Dioxide.

This Poll has four choices, explain the reasoning behind your choice.

P.S. It is a trick question.

[fyffe555]

I said none for the simple fact that we produce it by merely breathing.. net net we haven't reduced co2 by sequestering anything. Do I win a prize?

made me think though, if we're to reduce co2 what about co2's other uses. For example some people I know produce/use more co2 through thier soda habit than thier car produces. Are we going to stop using co2 as a shield gas in mig welding? What about the paintball guys - will they have to pay a 'carbon offset'?.

Today at the Borg there was a display for a Prius claiming how much gas it saves and how little co2 it produces. Immediately next to it Kobalt introduced a new product for air tools - Co2 tanks for 'mobile power'.....

Lunatics have taken over the assylum.

[awright]

I'm confused by the poll wording. Are you really asking how much CO2 has been SEQUESTERED, i.e., taken OUT of circulation in the biosphere and atmosphere, or how much has been RELEASED from its natural sequestration in bogs, marshes, tundra, oceans, petroleum coal, etc.? I wouldn't be surprised if the responses so far confuse the question also, thereby making the results meaningless.

fyffe555's comments reflect the general confusion in the populace. Use of CO2 in soft drinks, shielding gas, paintball guns, fire extinguishers or any other industrial application are complete non-issues in the question of CO2 as a greenhouse gas. These used do not change in any way the net amount of CO2 causing global warming because they distill CO2 out of the atmosphere, use it, and release it back into the atmosphere.

What DOES release carbon from its natural sequestration is extracting petroleum and coal that has sequestered carbon in deposits in the earth's crust for much longer than humans have existed and burning it, releasing the carbon therein in the form of CO2.

In general, burning of renewable fuels like biofuels (wood and agricultural wastes and plant-derived oils) does not contribute to CO2 as a greenhouse gas because the CO2 released is recycled out of the atmosphere into now biomass.

Your poll question is quite appropos, but I think it needs rephrasing to be of value.

awright

[Geof]

I'm confused by the poll wording. Are you really asking how much CO2 has been SEQUESTERED, i.e., taken OUT of circulation in the biosphere and atmosphere,.....awright

Sequestering carbon dioxide...That is removing Carbon Dioxide from the atmosphere or never allowing it to escape into the atmosphere.

Your phrasing above, mine below, I fail to understand your confusion.

How much CO2 has human activity removed from the atmosphere?

[awright]

OK, I understand the language. What I do not understand is the thrust or purpose of the question.

I'm no atmospheric scientist. However, my understanding is that the only large scale human activity that sequesters CO2 is capturing combustion gasses or other products of industrial activity in a scrubber and somehow storing it or chemically combining it in a form that can be injected underground in deep cavities that hopefully will not allow it to escape back into the atmosphere. I'm sure there are many other processes in use and there are certainly many that are proposed, but all of them combined are a drop in the bucket compared to both the magnitude of the NEED to sequester CO2 and the new releases of CO2 by burning of fossil fuels.

Asking how much CO2 human activity has removed from the atmosphere instead of asking how much CO2 human activity has put into the atmosphere simply seems pretty silly to me and doesn't seem to contribute much to the dialogue on greenhouse gasses and the need or not in doing something about it.

I do see the statement, "P.S. It is a trick question." I hope we see what the trick was sooner or later.

Don't fyffe555's comments reveal confusion about the question that is being asked or the science behind the question? Breathing contributing to greenhouse gasses?

fyffe555 makes a chiding comparison of the claim by Prius to reduce CO2 emissions with the use of bottled CO2 to power air tools. In fact, while driving a Prius is not a solution to the CO2 greenhouse gas problem, it does, in fact, reduce CO2 release into the atmosphere from sequestration in petroleum underground per mile driven in ordinary cars, while using CO2 to power air tools has no net effect on greenhouse gas.

I'm not really trying to shoot down anyones trick question here. I was just trying to make the point that I think many people will be confused by the question and that the results won't mean much. But I'm probably missing the point.

awright

[Geof]

awright;

You accuse me of being confusing: Fair enough, I get accused of being confusing even when I am doing my damndest to be clear so I guess when I am deliberately not being clear getting that accusation is understandable.

The purpose of the question/poll? Partly for fun, partly to see if people read things and put two and two together. You did and what you posted is very informative.

You have the question; "Breathing contributing to greenhouses gases?". The question mark leads me to conclude that you think this is a silly concept. It is, but based on the comments I have seen and heard some people make it is a popular misconception that CO2 exhaled by living creatures is contributing the atmospheric CO2 levels.

Another of your comments is; "I'm sure there are many processes...that...combined are a drop in the bucket...". I agree but again it seems to me that many people have the idea that carbon offsets for forest preservation or planting are a practical approach and that forests sequester carbon.

I think this is mostly nonsense; it is an extension of the conception of forests, most specifically the Amazon Rain Forest as 'The Lungs of the Planet'. Ignore for the moment that this simile is wrong because lungs expel CO2...the common meaning is that the trees of the rain forest provide the oxygen we need, or that life in general needs. Balderdash! The oxygen we need is released by the plants that are grown for our food. Individual trees may sequester carbon, forests, mature old growth forest that is, do not because in a forest decay matches growth.

The trick question comment, which with hindsight maybe I should have omitted, is that to some extent all choices are correct as I explain below.

The item that was the distal cause of the poll was the Ozzie Biologist that I referred to in my thread on Cremation. His claim that incinerating human corpses released 50kg of CO2 into the atmosphere (this is just the CO2 from the corpse not from the fuel used in the incinerator) is correct; give or take a bit for different sized people. But what he skips over and what most people skip over, is the realization that this is not a net contribution to global CO2; it is simply returning to the atmosphere the CO2 that was sequestered in the living human during their life. This is where the 150 billion comes from; 50kg multiplied by 6 billion divide by two because not everyone is full grown.

So therefore a correct answer on the poll is the fourth choice; humans by their own individual personal activity have sequestered 150 billion kg of CO2 from the atmosphere, in themselves. The first answer is probably also correct; I don't think anything of significance has been sequestered by deliberate industrial activity. Possibly some has been used for oil well rejuvenation but the purpose behind this is not sequestration it is oil extraction so it hardly qualifies. Naturally if both the first and last choices are correct in their own way the other two are also correct.

[iamscottym]

How about we sequester carbon in the form of carbon fiber. I volunteer to store as much as my house can hold, for free!