[ort5]

Hi,

I bought an X2 mill off of Ebay and it just arrived at my home. The mill was shipped UPS and not packed very well. It's damaged, and I would like an assessment of the carnage. Pictures are here:

http://www.teamentropy.com/mill/milldamage/index.html

What do you think? Is it salvageable? The electronics work, but the y axis is rough (in one direction) and the x axis obviously needs work.

Is there anybody in the Boston area that would be willing to help me repair this thing? It would be helpful to see a working version of the mill if anybody has one.

Thanks!
Dave

[dropride]

Did the guy insure it at all? Thats crazy to ship something that heavy in a box like that. I'd go after that guy for some sort of reimbursment, it's salvagable but it gonna take some money.

[ort5]

I told him to insure it, but I'm not sure if he did.

I checked littlemachineshop.com and it appears I can order replacement parts for around $75 total. I would love to have an experienced user of this mill help me determine what's wrong though.

That's what I get for "getting a deal" through Ebay

Dave

[BrendaEM]

I'm sorry.

I would look over the castings, ways, spindle., checking them for cracks.

I would try turning the motor by hand before turning it on.

I would not start the machine without eye or preferably face protection.

If you cnc the mill, the broken leadnut won't be an issue.

I'd bet someone has a leadnut from when they cnc'd their machine that they'd donate, if only they thought of it.

Most else of what I see is broken plastic.

I see a few broken fastners, perhaps you can take them out with screw extractor, or turn them out from the inside of the castings.

They have parts:
http://www.littlemachineshop.com/

I noticed that black bent sheet metal thing is a Z-axis over which sell for less than $3.
http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...520&category=6

The emergency stop switch is $10.
http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...332&category=6

[ort5]

I turned on the motor and it spins freely and the variable speed control works. The spindle doesn't turn, but that's probably a broken gear (the seller included many replacements...).

I think I can save it, but it's still a PITA that I have to make a project out of it.

Thanks for the support.

Dave

[Al_The_Man]

I don't know why you think you should be the loser in this.
I have had the same experiences with both bad packaging and UPS's 'delicate' handlers, Although I think in this case the majority of the blame is with the stupid shipper, I have gone back to ebay sellers with similar bad shipping habits and got everything from a full refund to partial re-imbursment.
I had one ship a 60lb motor in a cardboard box with absolutly nothing else in the box. Of course it was smashed up pretty good.
He paid me back in full.
I would at least send him an email with the photo's of the damage.
Al.

[BrendaEM]

The foam probably shifted letting the parts shift.

It's a lot of weight for foam peanuts. Several layers of cardboard might have added some protection.

I'd guess the person who sent you the mill is not going to get a positive ebay rating.

[scaletec]

Hi,

I bought an X2 mill off of Ebay and it just arrived at my home. The mill was shipped UPS and not packed very well. It's damaged, and I would like an assessment of the carnage. Pictures are here:

http://www.teamentropy.com/mill/milldamage/index.html

What do you think? Is it salvageable? The electronics work, but the y axis is rough (in one direction) and the x axis obviously needs work.

Is there anybody in the Boston area that would be willing to help me repair this thing? It would be helpful to see a working version of the mill if anybody has one.

Thanks!
Dave

I cnc'd my x2 and would be willing to give you the parts left over if you cannot get the seller / shipper to cover the damage. I have t he lead screws and nuts and a bunch other parts.

I have learned a lot from everyone on this forum and would be glad to donate these parts.

Scaletec

[in2steam]

I learned this exact lesson with a sears grinder I bought from an ebayer, they shipped it in a cardboard box by itself, they managed to break the swtich and guards off. I will never buy something of great wieght off ebay again from a seller who has never sold such a thing, or someone who has the slightiest negative feedback about shipping.
I have had my fair share of shipping mishaps, you can tell when someone screws up(mispacks,forgets, or sends it to the wrong spot) and when the shipper screws up.
chris

[BrendaEM]

I cnc'd my x2 and would be willing to give you the parts left over if you cannot get the seller / shipper to cover the damage. I have t he lead screws and nuts and a bunch other parts.

I have learned a lot from everyone on this forum and would be glad to donate these parts.

Scaletec

Nice offer : )

[ZipSnipe]

I,ll tell ya exactly what happen, the guys at UPS went to pick up a box thinking its a 30lb dvd player and instead picked up that box of lead, about cracked thier backs and just let that thing hit the floor, probably kicked it and cursed it awhile too.

[The Blight]

First of all contact the guy who shipped this to you and show him the pictures. He should cover the damage because shipping a machine like that in a cardboard box with a filling like that is just asking for trouble.

I would take the whole machine apart and inspect it for damages. Check the ways and try to adjust the gibs and se if it all slides without too much resistance. Because it's an X2 I would recommend lapping the ways too and adjusting the gibs for a nice fit.

I have lots of spareparts left from my cnc conversion (Z axis rack and gear+ knob.etc, leadscrews and nuts and lots of fastners and such) and I would gladly give them to you, but because I live in Denmark I bet it would cost quite a bit for the shipping.

I would just CNC the machine and get rid of those leadscrews and the whole pinion gear and rack on the Z axis and start over with ballscrews. You can find some fairly cheap ones out there.

Oh and convert to beltdrive instead of those gears. It makes a lot less noise and it costs less in the length (because you will end up breaking gears from time to time).

[ort5]

Wow, thanks everybody for the support!

I contacted the seller, but he's not accepting any responsibility. It's obviously his fault though, given the crappy packing job. I'm actually surprised that there was not more damage! I don't think UPS will help me, but it's worth a try.

Scaletec, that is a very generous offer! I may take you up on it. I'd like to eventually CNC this machine, but I'd love to get it working in a manual configuration first to check everything out. Drop me an email and we can work out the details. My address is: dave "at" teamentropy "dot" com

I'm sure glad I found this forum!

The Blight:

When you say: "I would take the whole machine apart and inspect it for damages. Check the ways and try to adjust the gibs and se if it all slides without too much resistance. Because it's an X2 I would recommend lapping the ways too and adjusting the gibs for a nice fit."

This all sounds good, but I have no idea how to do any of it! I'm mechanically inclined, but I don't have much machining experience. Maybe I can find somebody locally to help me. I'll try in the apprentice forum.

Dave

[nine 16]

I ship alot, but I sure-as-the-dickens would not use foam peanuts for an object like this! To me, such packing indicates a lack of mechanical commom sense on the part of the packer; a derth that further suggests you had better look over anything from that supplier real good indeed.

ort5, I applaud you and all others who have the guts to order virtually unknown from ebay. I do not have the courage.

[ort5]

I'm not sure applause is warranted in this situation I'm certainly going to be much more careful on Ebay in the future.

[The Blight]

What you should do is basicly unscrew all the bolts and fasteneres you can find and take the whole machine apart (do make notes as to where the various things go). Clean it and reassemble. You can find several guides on the net on lapping the ways of a mill and how to adjust the gibs. Good luck with your machine. I don't think there is anything more wrong with it then what you can see, but you can never be sure.

As for the buyer.. well he can't be the sharpest knife.. I told my co-workers about how that guy packed the machine, and they laughed and said that he would have to be drunk while packing it or maybe stoned.

[Al_The_Man]

Although I would say in this case the fault is 90% the shippers fault, UPS allow an automatic minimum claim of up to $100.00, any more has to be covered by insurance, I think it is a $1.00/1k coverage.
A complete loss of the package is one thing, but when damage is involved it can be a nightmare dealing with UPS, if they see the way it was packed, they may dis-allow it.
I must say the majority of sellers I have dealt with, most go the extra mile on packaging.
Al.

[Stepper Monkey]

If you used a credit card or PayPal, just do a chargeback and let the burden of coming to a settlement fall to the seller. At that point you get ALL your money back and you are not even responsible for shipping the unit back to him unless he pays for it. THAT usually gets peoples attention and leaves negotiating the price with the ball in his court, and the scales tipped heavily in your favor. He is stuck either offering to sell it to you at a drastically reduced price, paying to take the broken piece back and then having to fix it himself, or abandoning it with you for free.
I have some equipment I got that way damn near free. This X2 is very close to that in your case, as you will have quite a bit of work and headache that isn't your responsibility. UPS sure isn't going to help. Just force a refund from the guy then negotiate from a position of strength.

[ort5]

I actually used a credit card through PayPal so this may be an option. I'll investigate.

Thanks,

Dave

[Stepper Monkey]

Then you are doubly covered!

Coming from the perspective of a retailer, chargebacks are vicious. People don't understand their true power. I have gotten hit by them in fairly obvious cases of fraud, and even then did not get them overturned.

If a customer does a chargeback, the retailer has the money pulled from thier account FIRST and given back to you, automatically and without notice to them. Then THEY have to file a complaint and wait for an investigation by the credit card company if they want to try and get the refund reversed, which seldom happens unless there is really obvious fraud, and the burden of proof for that is on the seller! Any even questionable chargebacks and the seller is still hosed. The seller has no other recourse, either. In our Merchant agreements we have to accept this as part of doing business, or lose the ability to accept cards. Period.
The credit card companies want customers to have absolute faith in thier purchases. It makes them more comfortable spending money, especially online, which is obviously good for the credit card guys. Retailers just have to suck it up on occasion if we want to be able to accept cards.

Go after this guy. If he didn't want to be reasonable about it before because he was the one holding the cash, you can certainly force him to be reasonable now by reversing that situation.