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Thread: iso20 vs TTS

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  1. #1

    iso20 vs TTS

    Hello all, new member here.

    I'm looking at 2 prolight mills on ebay. one is a plm-1000 with the r8 spindle, and one is a super prolight 1000 that may have an iso20 spindle (still waiting to hear back from the seller)
    if i get the normal plm-1000 i plan to set it up with Tormach tooling system, and i just wanted to hear some general opinions on TTS VS ISO20 and which one i should go with.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    Re: iso20 vs TTS

    ISO20 has a pullstud and thus greater resistance to tool(holder) pull out. ISO20 tool holders are not that common from when I looked a few years ago.
    7xCNC.com - CNC info for the minilathe (7x10, 7x12, 7x14, 7x16)

  3. #3
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    Re: iso20 vs TTS

    How much power and torque does it have? Pullout is an issue on TTS, but for lower power machines with properly torqued drawbar and properly maintained collets it's probably not much of an issue. TTS holders are quite inexpensive, and you can always swap to an R8 tool if you have an op or two that needs more oomph.

  4. #4
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    Re: iso20 vs TTS

    I have been looking for the China copies of the TTS holder and cant find them.

    Any of you guys know who might have them.

    - - - Updated - - -
    youtube videos of the G0704 under the name arizonavideo99

  5. #5
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    Re: iso20 vs TTS

    Quote Originally Posted by arizonavideo View Post
    I have been looking for the China copies of the TTS holder and cant find them.

    Any of you guys know who might have them.

    - - - Updated - - -
    Last time I saw them was on Ebay, but I don't see any now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by arizonavideo View Post
    I have been looking for the China copies of the TTS holder and cant find them.

    Any of you guys know who might have them.

    - - - Updated - - -
    Last time I saw them was on Ebay, but I don't see any now.

  6. #6
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    Re: iso20 vs TTS

    I don't use TTS so am not 100% familiar. Are you looking for something like this?

    https://m.ebay.com/itm/New-10pcs-C3-...gAAOSw241YYy8S

    Ben

    Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk

  7. #7

    Re: iso20 vs TTS

    how about bearings? i saw a post on here on disassembling the spindle on the r8 version but how about the iso20? can anyone familiar with prolight mills comment?

  8. #8
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    Re: iso20 vs TTS

    Quote Originally Posted by arizonavideo View Post
    I have been looking for the China copies of the TTS holder and cant find them.

    Any of you guys know who might have them.

    - - - Updated - - -
    I have a number of Tormach TTS Holders ( Not clones ) I will be getting rid of at a loss here soon all new. Let me put a list together of what I have and I will send you a e-mail if your interested.

  9. #9
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    Re: iso20 vs TTS

    Quote Originally Posted by arizonavideo View Post
    I have been looking for the China copies of the TTS holder and cant find them.

    Any of you guys know who might have them.

    - - - Updated - - -
    The Chinese TTS copies are still around on Ebay. Search Ebay for C3/4 ER20 or for the seller cncmachinetool. He only has the non-ATC holders on Ebay, but sells the ATC version for a couple bucks more if you contact him.

  10. #10
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    Re: iso20 vs TTS

    Thanks

    found him
    youtube videos of the G0704 under the name arizonavideo99

  11. #11
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    Re: iso20 vs TTS

    I just recently found a lot of joy in not using the TTS tool holders on my G0704. I would choose ISO20 over TTS. TTS is really sensitive to chatter so if your machine isn't rigid enough or your program is aggressive they will pull out. They pull out all the time on the PCNC 1100 at work. The ISO20 has a pull stud which should retain better.

    My thoughts on TTS with the G0704 is that it's not a good match. Any given tool with the TTS will stick out further. This results in higher moments from cutting forces. This also means that the z-axis will be higher on the column which is a less rigid position. Both of these increase the cutting forces effects on the frame and increase the susceptibility of chatter. The G0704 just isn't rigid enough, by simply removing the TTS and using the R8 collet with 3/8" endmill I cut my cycle time in half, and improved my surface finish. Maybe there's something wrong with my TTS, but it pulls out on the PCNC1100 too, and there's so much content on TTS pullout I don't think this is isolated to the G0704.

  12. #12
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    Re: iso20 vs TTS

    Quote Originally Posted by rs4race View Post
    I just recently found a lot of joy in not using the TTS tool holders on my G0704. I would choose ISO20 over TTS. TTS is really sensitive to chatter so if your machine isn't rigid enough or your program is aggressive they will pull out. They pull out all the time on the PCNC 1100 at work. The ISO20 has a pull stud which should retain better.

    My thoughts on TTS with the G0704 is that it's not a good match. Any given tool with the TTS will stick out further. This results in higher moments from cutting forces. This also means that the z-axis will be higher on the column which is a less rigid position. Both of these increase the cutting forces effects on the frame and increase the susceptibility of chatter. The G0704 just isn't rigid enough, by simply removing the TTS and using the R8 collet with 3/8" endmill I cut my cycle time in half, and improved my surface finish. Maybe there's something wrong with my TTS, but it pulls out on the PCNC1100 too, and there's so much content on TTS pullout I don't think this is isolated to the G0704.
    There is NOTHING wrong with TTS. The problem is there are a LOT of poorly designed power drawbars out there, and the Tormach one is no exception. For TTS to work properly, the drawbar must be tensioned to something well over 3000#. Give it that, and up to a 1.5-2HP machine, and pull-out simply DOES NOT OCCUR. I've been using TTS for years, on several different machines, using my own power drawbars, which DO properly tension the drawbar to ~3500#. I have never once had pull-out, and I've had ZERO reports of pull-out from my PDB customers. And I do most of my roughing in 6061 at 3-4 cu. in./min MRR, and well over 100 IPM feedrate, with a 1/2" endmill.

    Regards,
    Ray L.

  13. #13
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    Re: iso20 vs TTS

    Quote Originally Posted by SCzEngrgGroup View Post
    There is NOTHING wrong with TTS. The problem is there are a LOT of poorly designed power drawbars out there, and the Tormach one is no exception. For TTS to work properly, the drawbar must be tensioned to something well over 3000#. Give it that, and up to a 1.5-2HP machine, and pull-out simply DOES NOT OCCUR. I've been using TTS for years, on several different machines, using my own power drawbars, which DO properly tension the drawbar to ~3500#. I have never once had pull-out, and I've had ZERO reports of pull-out from my PDB customers. And I do most of my roughing in 6061 at 3-4 cu. in./min MRR, and well over 100 IPM feedrate, with a 1/2" endmill.

    Regards,
    Ray L.
    Wow that sounds amazing. Do you have any pictures of the machine your making those cuts with? I cant even do 0.25 cin/min without the TTS pulling out on my machine! A properly tensioned drawbar makes sense, whats that around 25 ft-lbs? I don't know if I'm getting there with the small wrench that comes with the g0704. I will check it with a tq wrench and try again, hopefully I can change my review!

  14. #14
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    Re: iso20 vs TTS

    I had some videos, but YouTube seems to have disappeared them. The machine is a Novakon Torus Pro.

    Trying to get TTS to work properly with a conventional pneumatic drawbar is an exercise in futility. My PDB actually torques the drawbar to 30-35 ft-lbs.

    Regards,
    Ray L.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by SCzEngrgGroup View Post
    I had some videos, but YouTube seems to have disappeared them. The machine is a Novakon Torus Pro.

    Trying to get TTS to work properly with a conventional pneumatic drawbar is an exercise in futility. My PDB actually torques the drawbar to 30-35 ft-lbs.

    Regards,
    Ray L.
    Is the necessary force not attainable with a stack of bellevilles? What's the main issue with a pneumatic drawbar?

  16. #16
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    Re: iso20 vs TTS

    Quote Originally Posted by spacehitchhiker42 View Post
    Is the necessary force not attainable with a stack of bellevilles? What's the main issue with a pneumatic drawbar?
    It is, but.... The RELEASE force is even higher. Consider the size and cost of an air cylinder capable of generating well over 4000# from a typical shop air supply. It becomes kinda ridiculous. The only practical approach, if one is determined to go with Bellevilles, is an air-over-hydraulic system (i.e. - an "intensifier"), which is also expensive and more complicated. That's why I went with a motor and gearbox.

    Regards,
    Ray L.

  17. #17
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    Re: iso20 vs TTS

    Cylinders with the required force are ridiculously expensive, but it's a simple project to do yourself. SMC's VBA11A pneumatic intensifier is another option for $275.

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    Re: iso20 vs TTS

    Quote Originally Posted by SCzEngrgGroup View Post
    I had some videos, but YouTube seems to have disappeared them. The machine is a Novakon Torus Pro.

    Trying to get TTS to work properly with a conventional pneumatic drawbar is an exercise in futility. My PDB actually torques the drawbar to 30-35 ft-lbs.

    Regards,
    Ray L.
    That's a proper CNC machine. Quite bigger than a benchtop machine eh?

    I don't have a power drawbar, and I realize I'm not going to find a socket to fit this square drive that comes on top of the g0704. After some thought I guesstimate it would take about 60lbs of force on this little wrench I have to tighten the drawbar. According to "feel" I definitely haven't ever torqued the TTS anywhere close to "spec". I will be looking at replacing my drawbar with something I can actually torque down, and giving the TTS another shakedown. I really would prefer proper tension to be the problem as the TTS can be pretty convenient.

    I'm curious if you were starting out and had to pick would you pick TTS or ISO20? Why?

  19. #19
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    Re: iso20 vs TTS

    Sockets to fit square nuts are available in both Metric & Inch. Just look for 8 point sockets.
    The G0704 should have something at least close to a standard metric size on top of the drawbar ..

  20. #20
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    Re: iso20 vs TTS

    Quote Originally Posted by rs4race View Post
    That's a proper CNC machine. Quite bigger than a benchtop machine eh?

    I don't have a power drawbar, and I realize I'm not going to find a socket to fit this square drive that comes on top of the g0704. After some thought I guesstimate it would take about 60lbs of force on this little wrench I have to tighten the drawbar. According to "feel" I definitely haven't ever torqued the TTS anywhere close to "spec". I will be looking at replacing my drawbar with something I can actually torque down, and giving the TTS another shakedown. I really would prefer proper tension to be the problem as the TTS can be pretty convenient.

    I'm curious if you were starting out and had to pick would you pick TTS or ISO20? Why?
    ISOXX is technically better, especially for ATCs, but they are not easy to come by, and not cheap. TTS is perfectly adequate for small machines, and a LOT cheaper, and easier to find.

    Making a drawbar is not hard. You can also find one off-the-shelf that is close, and modify it. A square drive will not hold up well under PDB use. For longest life, you want a hardened HEX head, and a hardened socket.

    Regards,
    Ray L.

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