[Aerojunkie]

I am really leaning towards a pro 5x10 unit from cnc routerparts. My budget started in the $25000 range and I looked at the units from shop bot, shop sabre, and used machinery. They are either 20 years old and used or out of my budget now that the reality check of software needing an upgrade. My question is to anyone using a pro machine for their cabinet business. How many sheets are you guys able to process in a day or week? Suggestions on bits and feed speed would be really helpful and appreciated, just starting and could use some advice. Im looking at using the pnp 2.2kw spindle they sell as well. I have been tempted by the If you guys are having good luck with the sub $400 spindles on ebay and amazon please post, not against saving money if its a good working option.

I was also looking at adding a 2nd spindle to have 2 available bits, but found the s30 atc spindle at cnc depot for less money than 2 of the pnp spindle packages. Does anyone have any experience with it? If it works well that could be a good production increase for the machine.

https://www.cncdepot.net/product-pag...tarter-package


For software right now Im leaning towards mosaic because I know it will control it. But im trying to find out if cabinet vision will control it as well. Any recommendations in this area?

Thank you in advance for all the help, its a big jump for me in a small shop.

[dgage]

I have a CNCRP Pro 60x120 with the NEMA 34 electronics system and CNCRP 2.2 spindle. It works well and it has definitely made me money and I have no regrets. The CNCRP system is great and their support is phenomenal. I usually cut 5x5x.75 Baltic Birch plywood, usually 2 sheets at a time. I usually feed at 250 ipm with a 1/4” compression bit because I slowed it down because my machine is not the bottleneck and don’t run it constantly. But I’ve easily cut at 300 but really haven’t pushed any faster than that, primarily because I don’t personally need to.

With that said, I wish I went with something like the Camaster Cobra instead for a more robust machine and especially the ATC. I’ve thought about the S30 ATC spindle but I couldn’t find any reviews and there’s also the problem of the machine knowing where it is at all times. Stepper motors as used on the CNCRP don’t know how far they’ve actually traveled because even though the computer told it to move, there is no verification whereas servo motors feedback to the computer that they moved as told or even more important weren’t able to move for whatever reason so the computer can stop cutting. A system with stepper motors can get out of sync if the spindle isn’t turned on or something gets in the way. The Camaster Cobra is approaching $40,000 but I doubt I’d outgrow that in many years and if I did the. I’d be making quite a bit of money and quite capable of buying a true industrial machine at that time. But even though the CNCRP makes me money and works well, I wish, wish, wish I had an ATC and that’s really why I wish I had spent more for the Camaster.

[ger21]

How many sheets do you cut in a week?

Moving to a Camaster would be a big step up, but the price will be much higher.

I consider a "Pro" machine to be in the $100K-$200K, which is what we have. I can typically cut 6-10 sheets of cabinet parts/ hour.
With the CNCRP machine, I'd expect to be able to cut 2-4 sheets per hour. Time can vary greatly, with number of parts per sheet, and amount of drilling required.

Suggestions on bits and feed speed would be really helpful and appreciated

This depends greatly on machine power, spindle power, material, specific tooling being used, and hold down. WThe feeds and speeds I can use on my $150K machine are far above what you would use on a CNCRP machine, even with the same materials and same tooling.

I've heard the CNC Depot spindle is not bad. Not sure how long it will last in a production environment, though. There are chinese ATC's available for about $2000-$2500. Check Automationtechnologiesinc.com

As far as the regular 2.2Kw spindles go, members her have been using them for years. Many people get a lot of years out of them. Some people fry them quickly, but that's usually due to user error.
In a production environment, I'd keep a spare or two in stock, as the spindles themselves are only about $200 each.

Yes, Cabinet Vision will work as well, but expect to pay in the $15K and higher range. And if you go that route, make sure that you get in writing that they will provide a fully working post processor for your machine.

[Aerojunkie]

dgage

I would love to move up to a camaster as well, the panther would be enough for my need now and still substantial growth room. My main concern has been the lost steps while cutting, but the next comparable machine with a closed loop system is about an additional $12000 (5x10 panther). I dont know exact because I havent heard back from them for a week with a price. From what I have read if a machine is run like it should then steps should be non existent. But in real world use I have no idea how common it would be. Have you ever experienced them? When you cut at 250 ipm with that 1/4" bit what kind of cut depth are you using?

ger21

Right now my I cut about 10-15 sheets a week, but cut in a day and assembled the rest of the time. I do this part time so Im limited to a few hours a day and an occasional weekend. Unless I hire someone I dont see needing over 20 a week. I hoping to outgrow this machine and when I do go for a much heavier unit. I just want something to get me started and get producing with cnc. My thoughts are if I outgrow this machine I wont really worry about what the next machine will cost, and if I dont then I have gotten into the cnc world without tying myself to a lease payment for 5 years.

I keep thinking to buy the 1st spindle from cncrouterparts to get all the wiring, enclosure, and simplicity to get it running. When or if it goes then replace it with the cheaper model using the same vfd and wiring setup.

I sent an email to Cabinet Vision on upgrading my Cabnetware software, but no response yet. Right now I'm leaning to renting mozaik when I need it for $125 a month.


I have been talking to a guy from cnc routerparts and he sent me this video that they did as an example in plywood. Is this something that could be expected in real world use? I will be adding a vacuum table to mine though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fD4hFWZ4XU

[ger21]

My main concern has been the lost steps while cutting,

Lost steps should not be an issue at all. If a machine loses steps, it's practically useless, and people wouldn't pay $10K-$15K for machines that don't work.

I have been talking to a guy from cnc routerparts and he sent me this video that they did as an example in plywood. Is this something that could be expected in real world use?

That very much depends on a lot of things. Harder woods, different tools, will have an effect on speed.

[hbcreative]

Hey there Aerojunkie ... I bought a used ShopBot 7 years ago and I absolutely love everything about it. It has a 5 x 10 deck, vac table, 8 tool holder, 5hp spindle. I can cut the parts for a kitchen in one day, assemble the next. It was a huge boost for my shop, where we were previously cutting parts on the table saw. In addition to cabinet parts I've started cutting signs, laminate countertops ... I've even created a new dashboard for a restored WW1 Spitfire. The support at ShopBot is incredible ... you can call and talk to a technician who will walk you through any issues you are having. New they can be a bit pricey, but if you can find a used one it is well worth it. I paid 30K for mine and it basically eliminated the need for an employee who would cost more (and it doesn't call in sick from a hang over to boot, lol!) Hope this helps ... from experience I know it can be stressful making the plunge, but a machine like that will open up a lot of possibilities for you. Local sign makers will love what you can do for them!

[dgage]

dgage

I would love to move up to a camaster as well, the panther would be enough for my need now and still substantial growth room. My main concern has been the lost steps while cutting, but the next comparable machine with a closed loop system is about an additional $12000 (5x10 panther). I dont know exact because I havent heard back from them for a week with a price. From what I have read if a machine is run like it should then steps should be non existent. But in real world use I have no idea how common it would be. Have you ever experienced them? When you cut at 250 ipm with that 1/4" bit what kind of cut depth are you using?

I understand and like I said the CNCRP is a fine machine and is not even close to a bottleneck so I’m so much more productive now. However, I wish I had spent the extra $15,000 for the Camaster Cobra just because of the ATC. The fact that it is a more robust and faster machine is less important since it isn’t holding my business back. But I understand that is a considerable amount of money. Then again, you wouldn’t need to upgrade your machine nearly as soon either.

I don’t lose steps when the machine is run properly. It’s when someone forgets to turn on the vacuum holddown or the main power to the spindle. It’s those sorts of things that cause issues and cause the machine to potentially not have the cutter where it expects to be. And with an ATC, that could be very bad though you could always setup a “machine rezero” right before any tool change, which would essentially go back to the limit switches right before going to pick up a tool. Not quite as good as a feedback servo but would probably work.

I thought about it later and realized I was remiss in giving you an important bit of information regarding depth. I make 2 passes with the 1/4” but and usually drive it between 200 and 300 ipm, which really feels like cakewalk for the machine. Regarding the video you mention, I doubt it would be a problem at all to run at 600 ipm with only 1/4” depth of cut. So I have full faith that the video is authentic. Like I said, I haven’t pushed the speeds because my business hasn’t caught up to the productivity of the CNC machine and it will likely be a long time until I do. I’ll probably upgrade to an ATC machine before I need to worry about the speed limitations. The current machine really is that productive.

I have been talking to a guy from cnc routerparts and he sent me this video that they did as an example in plywood. Is this something that could be expected in real world use? I will be adding a vacuum table to mine though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fD4hFWZ4XU

[Aerojunkie]

Sounds good Dgage, I have a feeling it will be a long time before I will max out this setup and if I do I'll buy a bigger one next round. Thank you for all the help thus far to everyone. Going to be ordering a 5x10 pro system, nema 34 pnp electronics, and 2.2kw pnp spindle in the next couple days. I have one final question please from anyone. I read a couple places where people ordered there frames with no splices, is it worth it? Does it make the frame any stronger/stiffer?

[dgage]

I paid extra for no splices so I can’t say whether it makes a difference but we know a splice has the opportunity to be problematic and I wanted to reduce any such issues. I‘Ve not thought about it since but if I ever had issues and I didn’t buy the full length rails, I’m sure I would have second-guessed and I really hate second-guessing.

[Aerojunkie]

I paid extra for no splices so I can’t say whether it makes a difference but we know a splice has the opportunity to be problematic and I wanted to reduce any such issues. I‘Ve not thought about it since but if I ever had issues and I didn’t buy the full length rails, I’m sure I would have second-guessed and I really hate second-guessing.

Agreed, I figure its something to get a little more rigidity out of a machine at this level. And the first time something gets a little loose or out of alignment on that joint I will regret not getting it.

[Aerojunkie]

Well I lied, I have another question.lol. My shop is not climate controlled and I was thinking to get the leg kit for stability. Most of the build logs I see have a wooden base for weight. Has anyone had any problems with the tracking on the machine getting off once wood moves a little bit like it does?

[ger21]

I wouldn't worry about it.

If you build your base from solid lumber, you shouldn't see much movement, as wood moves very little along it's length.

[Gary-Wiant]

I havent finished my 4896 pro build yet (stupid work getting in the way ) but I've gotta say I'm very impressed with my CNCRP PRO so far it's got the leg kit & ever option available except for the gantry options and I was concerned about the splice & I'm very happy with the way it lines up where the splice is.

I'm going to put a couple sheets of MDF on the lower leg supports to add weight but I dont see it being an issue reguardless.

Good luck & Enjoy. Dan from CNCRP Was great to work with.
Gary

[pugsly]

Well I lied, I have another question.lol. My shop is not climate controlled and I was thinking to get the leg kit for stability. Most of the build logs I see have a wooden base for weight. Has anyone had any problems with the tracking on the machine getting off once wood moves a little bit like it does?

Lack of climate control being an issue depends on where you live. If you are somewhere that is always humid or always dry shouldn't be a problem.

I have a 4x8, and decided that for $799 the leg kit was probably going to save me enough hassle to be worth it - and as part of the overall cost of the build a pretty minor contributor. Also, I like having the ability to store full 4x8 sheets under the table.

[Aerojunkie]

Lack of climate control being an issue depends on where you live. If you are somewhere that is always humid or always dry shouldn't be a problem.

I have a 4x8, and decided that for $799 the leg kit was probably going to save me enough hassle to be worth it - and as part of the overall cost of the build a pretty minor contributor. Also, I like having the ability to store full 4x8 sheets under the table.

I live in NC, you never know what its going to be outside.lol. That was the reason I was leaning towards the leg kit was the simplicity of it and stability of the machine frame. But now seeing a lot of these machines on heavy wooden bases made me wonder if that weight was an advantage.

[pugsly]

I live in NC, you never know what its going to be outside.lol. That was the reason I was leaning towards the leg kit was the simplicity of it and stability of the machine frame. But now seeing a lot of these machines on heavy wooden bases made me wonder if that weight was an advantage.

Yeah NC you will definitely get big seasonal humidity swings. We just moved out to Nevada from there. I figure if my base isn't stable enough I can always add weight on - but I have a hard time imagining CNCRP selling a leg kit that doesn't get the job done.

[sixstringlz]

Yeah NC you will definitely get big seasonal humidity swings. We just moved out to Nevada from there. I figure if my base isn't stable enough I can always add weight on - but I have a hard time imagining CNCRP selling a leg kit that doesn't get the job done.

I have a pro 60x120 with nema 34's, if I did it over I would have went with a wood base. I have a lot of issues with table movement on the leg kit. I have to keep my ipm down to 150 or less and slowed my acceleration down over half. My biggest gripe is that i called and asked them about the stability of the legs and was assured it was solid, and it is if the machine isn't moving, lol.

[pugsly]

I have a pro 60x120 with nema 34's, if I did it over I would have went with a wood base. I have a lot of issues with table movement on the leg kit. I have to keep my ipm down to 150 or less and slowed my acceleration down over half. My biggest gripe is that i called and asked them about the stability of the legs and was assured it was solid, and it is if the machine isn't moving, lol.

Well that's good to know, but kinda a bummer. Wondering what can be done to make it perform better?

[Gary-Wiant]

If my legs move at all I'm going to lag the legs to the floor. The movement has to be between the legs & the floor not between the table & the legs.

[dgage]

I had them build me a beefier leg kit (more legs) and I don’t notice that sort of movement but I also use wood to weight things down and connect the legs to make sure everything was sturdy and heavy. Realize you’re comparing an aluminum CNC kit on simple metal struts to machines with bases weighing several thousand pounds. You need to do some work to give a solid base and a simple steel leg kit or even a wood base aren’t going to get there without some effort.