[PEU]

Pablo,

I like ribs too.

Then you should come to Argentina, its paradise for grilled meat

[SRT Mike]

This is sort of an old thread, but I got a lot of great info and I wanted to address a few of the questions raised, especially in the last couple of weeks

Where does Patent infringement come into play? The lens shape took development and the design may be patented. Why are you trying to replicate it anyway? The assembly looks thin so is it already an LED item? If it is powered by a filiment bulb, the lens design is made for a single point light source. Going to a multiple LED light source makes the lens design a bit worthless for your application. It'd be better to make lenses over each LED diffusing the LED(s) light.

No issues with patent infringement. I am not aware of any light design that is patented, neither utility nor design patent. And, when you think about it... if there were IP issues, then how could an aftermarket company make non-OEM parts like reproduction wheels, windshields, bumpers, lights, etc.

As for why trying to replicate, because we want to offer additional features beyond the OEM part. The lens design is applicable because the light I posted is LED so the lens design would carry over. In cases where you go from incandescent to LED it's generally preferred to change the lens design but that's not a huge big deal - the main consideration is the shape/contours of the actual lens. Most OEM LED lights have 2 lenses, a fresnel lens over the actual LED and then a diffusion lens on the rear surface. You can take the shape of the light surface and just modify the lens(es) from prismatic (good for incandescent bulbs) to a big fresnel lens or discrete fresnel lenses.

[plasticpeter]

I don't understand why you now say:

"As for why trying to replicate, because we want to offer additional features beyond the OEM part. The lens design is applicable because the light I posted is LED so the lens design would carry over. In cases where you go from incandescent to LED it's generally preferred to change the lens design"

Because previously, you said:

"The idea is that the OEM light uses bulbs and the aftermarket part will be LED, with a custom circuit board installed"

If you are copying the lens design like for like, I think you will have problems reproducing the optics and thus problems certifying the product. I must admit though that regulations for rear lighting is less stringent that for headlights. I hope you intend to properly check your legal status - I'm not sure it's that straightforward.

[SRT Mike]

I don't understand why you now say:

"As for why trying to replicate, because we want to offer additional features beyond the OEM part. The lens design is applicable because the light I posted is LED so the lens design would carry over. In cases where you go from incandescent to LED it's generally preferred to change the lens design"

Because previously, you said:

"The idea is that the OEM light uses bulbs and the aftermarket part will be LED, with a custom circuit board installed"

If you are copying the lens design like for like, I think you will have problems reproducing the optics and thus problems certifying the product. I must admit though that regulations for rear lighting is less stringent that for headlights. I hope you intend to properly check your legal status - I'm not sure it's that straightforward.

I don't recall what pictures I posted (looks like they are gone now). I thought it was a bulb one. Anyway, we were interested in manufacturing lots of light assemblies. Some are OEM bulbs, some are OEM LED's.

As for the optics, it's not a problem. Many OEM brake lights don't use optics beyond what is built into the LED lens. There is no problem certifying the product - there isn't a certification process. The manufacturer claims adherence to DOT standards. People think that the DOT approves or denies designs - this is not the case. The DOT lays out the rules, and the manufacturer states they adhere or not. There are independent (not affiliated with DOT) labs that will determine if your product meets DOT or not, but the process isn't as daunting as most folks think.

I know the woman over at the NHTSA who is responsible for rear lighting and I talk to her frequently. I know when asked by another manufacturer of LED brake lights regarding the laws, they only wanted "rearward visibility in daylight at 300 feet". I think much of the time spent on design is based around using a smaller number of LED's for cost reasons, as well as making one part that meets all countries' standards (the Euros have different standards from DOT).

I'm not saying it's easy or anything, just that it's not even nearly as difficult and exacting as most think (and I used to think, prior to putting some stuff through DOT certification).

[5axisguy]

I think it's my turn to chime in here, I have been in the moldmaking business for 22 plus years now and I will tell you there is no way to make a mold for that part for the 9500$ that is previously mentioned, unless of course its a prototype and a very crude one at that. I see ribs, possible slides, possible lifters, some sort of digitizing for the model, design, material, machining, edm, a good A-1 diamond lens quality mold finish, that would take at least 20 hours per core and cavity alone. Unless you find a mold shop working for like 15$ bucks and hour, your going to spend 4 or 5 times that 9500$ that was thrown out there. And yes I would think some legal issues would apply taking someones elses part and replicating it.

[Mike Stevenson]

Word 5axisguy.

[bgraham111]

I used to work for a company that did automotive lighting. Good luck, you are going to need it.

The LED lights won't come from the same point as a filament bulb, so all your lens surfaces will be off and will need to be re adjusted.

Surface finish is extremely important. Lens are very sensitive to surface finish.

The gate location and ejector locations are very important. Even if they are not in the surface that the light shines through, they can affect part quality (add light distortion.)

The only thing I'm not sure about is the legal requirements for after market parts. Maybe they don't have to meet the same requirements.