[Perp]

When it comes to EDM machines I really do not know much. If I were looking at purchasing a New or late model machine, what would be some of the pitfalls to avoid and options that I should be happy to pay for. Who are the major manacturers and which are worth the money. I am looking for profesional Equipment, not hobby stuff.

Any replies are appreciated.

Thanks

[Klox]

Are you looking at sinking or wire edm's? There's lots of manufacturers. Charmilles (Swiss), Agie (Swiss), Hitachi (Japanese, some models are assembled in eastern Europe), Sodick (Japanese/US), Ona (Spanish). Then there's a lot of Taiwanese ones on the market also. I would personally go for either a Japanese or Swiss machine. I have experience on Hitachi & Charmilles wedm's. Both are very good.....

[Perp]

We are looking for wire EDM, I should have been more specific.

Thanks for the reply Klox.

Any additional information from you guys would be great.

[cincinnatimachine]

Try Tom Truty at Techstar [email protected] . Tom reconditions Agie machines. He might have Swiss quality, at a reasonable price. Also excellent back up, based in Chicago.

Regards, Colin

[tludas]

We presently have 2 Mitsubishi Wire EDM machines. Would you consider outsourcing your wire work? We are able to do wire work, including edm hole drill, at very reasonable rates. We can do prototypes, as well as production. If this is something you are interested in, you can reach me at:

Ted Ludas, President @

Universal Tooling, Inc.
103 Elsie Ave.
Crest Hill, IL 60403
PH: 815-722-8080

When it comes to EDM machines I really do not know much. If I were looking at purchasing a New or late model machine, what would be some of the pitfalls to avoid and options that I should be happy to pay for. Who are the major manacturers and which are worth the money. I am looking for profesional Equipment, not hobby stuff.

Any replies are appreciated.

Thanks

[Perp]

Thank you for the offer, but at this time I feel It would best benifit us to buy and run our own machine.

[Brett]

Try looking at the following web site: www.mcwilliamsedm.com.

McWilliams is well known in the industry for the last 30 years or so and they are the largest rebuilder of Sodick Wire EDM Machines in the USA. You can call Jeff at 704-598-6616 out of their North Carolina office or Kurt at 248-437-6616 out of their Michigan office. I checked and they do have inventory of finished reconditioned machines for immediate sale.

[cb1]

i have run 5 different brands of edm's, this is some advice i can give.
go with a new machine not used, you will get better financing rates,
and the prices have come down a fair bit.
hight of cut- how big(thick) will your parts be?
-i say for the little extra cost get somthing with over 10in,so your not limited
as much.
-automatic wire feed is a must have(won't be on older model)
for lights out cutting.
-check to see if the model has modem so you can fix problems on line
while your at home(yes you can run the machine if your not there) i loved that, if you have a long run or big setup.
-some machines have a tank that lowers so you can fit big stuff.
build lots of jigs so if your running small stuff you can set up 10 or 50 parts
set your program and go home.
there are lots of brands and different price ranges, so do lots of research

[Klox]

Perp, what type of wire edm jobs do you have in mind. Tools or components? What software do you have? Do you need software too? If you plan on a variety of jobs also keep in mind that there are clamping systems on the market that saves setup time and ensures accuracy.....
You can also add an swimming pool sand filter to the filtration system to extend the paper filter's life, it will save you a lot in the long run.....

[Brett]

PERP

CB1 and Klox are right with regards to knowing what you are going to use the machine for and deciding on the right software and tooling. Automatic threaders are nice but are not necessary for all applications. Do you have alot or just a little of work that has multiple openings?

The big questions are:
1 ) How much work are you jobbing out monthly now?
2 ) Are you going to use the machine for in house work only?
3 ) How much money do you have in your machine tool budget for this machine tool? What other machines do you have to buy this fiscal year?

New manufacturers may offer better lease rates or say they are doing so. The only way to verify this is to check with your bank and also try a few leasing companies that know EDM machines but are not tied to those manufacturers.

You can still buy used or reconditioned machines for 1/4 to 1/2 the cost of new machines but make those companies give you references so you can feel comfortable with who you are dealing with.

[cb1]

check out next months issue of cutting tool engineering , there will
be an article on edm's
www.ctemag.com

[edm specialist]

well if you're are looking for the best brand of edm machine. Then you would have to go with a mits. The setup time can be a big factor and mits is more user friendly then the others. Also high speed cutting can make a big difference in brand. ex: you got charmilles the you input the thickness of the part ,type of material and it runs a safe powersetting for you which would less likely break the wire. But if you can learn how a mits power setting works. You and blow the charmilles away by speed of 2 to 4 to 5 times faster.

[cb1]

i ran a mitsu. it was my fav. also!
i've also used japax, sodik, brother, and fanuc.

[Klox]

If i had to buy a wire edm now i would go for the newest technology a can afford. Yes automatic threading is very helpfull if you do press tools with multi cavities......
It's not something that's really needed when the jobs take a couple of hours of cutting. These machines can generate good turnover if they are kept busy as much as possible. Also keep in mind that keeping them clean and in good running order takes time, a lot of time stripping down the nozzles, wire feeding mechanisms, threading mechanisms etc. I always budgeted two days a month for cleaning purposes.....
Some brands are more finicky than others. You can also check out the options of different types of wire to use, some may give up to 20% faster cutting speeds but are sometimes double in price!

[roysol]

mitsubishi

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

well if you're are looking for the best brand of edm machine. Then you would have to go with a mits. The setup time can be a big factor and mits is more user friendly then the others. Also high speed cutting can make a big difference in brand. ex: you got charmilles the you input the thickness of the part ,type of material and it runs a safe powersetting for you which would less likely break the wire. But if you can learn how a mits power setting works. You and blow the charmilles away by speed of 2 to 4 to 5 times faster.

Keep in mind that what Edm Specialist just said is unmitigated salesman propoganda. "How do you know when a salesman is lying? When his lips are moving" OK, that's old, but it's sadly too often true.

I run a Mits now, and it's ok for certain applications. I have run other machines that had various advantages, a lot depends on what type of work you do. Be careful of taking advice from those with a vested interest, especially if they don't disclose it.

Cheers!

Roy Solomon

[RICHARD ZASTROW]

My only experience is with Mitsubishi and it was all positive. I would check with www.adron.com

[edm specialist]

Hey Im no salesman. Im a edm machinist. And Im speaking from experince. Most people dont know what an Edm is, and if they do. They only know a little bit about it. Ive been arround to many different Edm companies. And most are still behind so far behind on the technology and the used of an Edm.

[Klox]

EDMspecialist, you have put it so nicely......
I have 15 years of edm behind me. A lot of people still perceive edm as "black magic". I personally feel it's one of the best methods of machining certain types of components......

[edm specialist]

Ok I think it boils down to the operator. You a got alot of different brands out and they all do work. But depending what you need it for. First they dont dont make aggies any more. They emerge with charmille. So much for the best brand. LOL!!! If you have cnc experience then you would want something that would be easy for you to learn. And a mits is the closest to any mills or lathe. The cnc codes are very similar. Not like some others where you have to type a whole sentences to make it move from x0y0 to move to x1. And if you are looking to make alot of money on it then set-up and run time is very important. Search Edm on the net. There to big all Edm comp in North America. One with over 50 edm machines and one with over 40 and they both use Mits. Well thats my argument. And good luck!

[sodickappsguy]

ok time for me to chime in. I work directly for sodick. Yes i would like you to by our machines but if your applications will not justify the price the dont by a porshe to do the job of a honda. If i was to by a machine i would stay away from any Euro machine. The reason why is there technology is outdated. Agie and charmill has merged and there is several changes happening there. I can say that mits does make a good machine but sodick also has a good machine. Prices are pretty much the same. I would by a newer machine so that you get a full warranty and all the application support to help you get started. Mits and sodick both similar codes for the movement of the machine but there power settings are different.

Once someone gets a machine brand they usually stick with it cause it is not as easy to swap over to a different brand of edm. as for the comment of 40 mits in more than one shop. That is nice but there are several shops that have 40 plus sodicks and world wide sodick has the world market share.

list of things to look for
cost (none are cheap)
wire threader (lights out is a factor to cut overhead)
submerged tank (with option to go non submerged)
ceramics if you are looking for high tolerance (chiller is also a major plus)
amount of wear parts and price (belts, carbides, cables, flush cups)
if the system comes with a cad system package.
SERVICE AND SUPPORT

mabe this will help.