[countryguy828]

I have been reading and researching this topic for roughly a year and a half and finally was able to get my account to activate here so I am ready to ask questions.

We have 3 Okuma Mills, One Cadet Mate v4020 with OSP700m, and Two ES-V3016 with OSP10m. All are good solid machines well cared for and accurate, but the memory is lacking. I believe the OSP700m machine has 32k and the two OSP10m machines have around 4k.

Our primary mill operator is interested in being able to hold many smaller programs in the mills internal memory. Currently he gets by with swapping programs out as needed but he is looking to save time by having all of his common programs ready to go in memory all of the time. The programs are setup with variables to handle many common tasks that just change say a bore diameter or depth as an example.

I am OK with used memory boards if I can track them down. If I plug the memory in will the machine recognize it or are there parameters that need set? I have found cards with DRAM, SRAM, and Flash. which one should I be looking for? I saw a main board for sale that had one of each installed. This was for OSP7000.

I have found little to no information on the OSP10m. I will keep looking and hopefully someone will have some advice.

I have even seen that the memory is already there but some parameters need changed to unlock it. I find that somewhat hard to believe in 20+ years that information hasn't been leaked to the all knowing google yet.

Down the road I am interested in getting the DNC-B option installed. Same goes for that If I can find the board(s) used to make it happen. From what I have determined so far I would need part# 1911-2221 and the correct software to load into the machine for it, as well as a switch and port panel. If a guy had the pinouts, could he make his own wire harness for the switch panel if one was not located, it doesn't seem like it would be too hard to do. That would be for the OSP7000 too. Again I havn't been able to find any good source for OSP10m. This would only be for very large CAM files which currently we are not currently using but would like to have the ability instead of turning the jobs down.

On Predator DNC website it claims it can drip feed with DNC-A I can't seen how this is possible, I have contacted predator twice by email including a screen shot of the claim and have not received a reply from them. I did download Predator and it has so many options I don't even know where to begin with setting it up from Drip feed.

I also downloaded Cimco DNC-Max to look into how it splits files for limited memory, again a lot to figure out.

I came across information reguarding scheduling of programs, I fail to see how this would help if you are still limited to the machines memory. If the schedule program could load seperate files into memory from floppy after one file is completed this could be an option, but I havn't found information prooving this to be possible.

I came across a video on youtube were a guy built his own drip feed system on a FADAL mill with a PLC that basically worked with the MDI screen and it was like someone typing MDI commands very fast, I could see this being done with an arduino or raspberryPI if a guy had a way to communicate with OSP in a similar manner, but I do not know if it will let you talk to the rs-232 port on MDI screen. A really smart guy could spoof the keyboard but I dont want to be tapping into wires that way.

I have read a lot of posts from Superman, OkumaWiz, Kurmay and CNCoperator123. These guys seem to have had the most solid experience.

With the age of these machines I am surprised guys havnt figured out how to them hack them yet or source cheaper parts. I have an easier time locating parts for machines built in the 30s and 40s online.

Thank You for reading and look forward to any advice.
Dave
Arcanum, Ohio

[tea hole]

I believe it is a combo of a cost benefit equation as well as what you're trying to do this on.
First, at some point you can just buy a newer used machine for less money than what it would cost in time, effort and parts to get more memory on the older machines.

Second, Okumas tend to be expensive. Who would buy a relatively expensive used machine to "figure out" how to "hack them" when you can buy a cheap machine and hack that instead?

Hell, i'm not even sure you can buy control options for machines pre E series any more. Of course, those are 20+ years old at this point so why would Okuma keep parts and allocate resources for options on such old equipment?

My advice is to save the $ you would spend hacking this and buy a newer machine where this isn't a problem.

Just my $.02.

[countryguy828]

My bosses bought these machines new back in the day. They have no interest in replacing them. They are good solid accurate machines, we just need more memory in them. At this point I am looking for guidance on part numbers and procedures for the upgrades.

Thank You,
Dave

[DouglasR]

Okuma does make upgrades, and yes, they're expensive, but a lot easier than chasing down rare, hard to find parts.

[cncts11]

The issue isn't the hardware - it's the software. The software won't recognize the hardware unless it is written to specifically recognize it. The only way "around" having to obtain the software from Okuma is if you have two machines that are virtually identical (with same options, etc. except one of them has the extended memory or DNC-B) and then you could load that software into the machine that doesn't, once you locate and install the identical hardware. At that point, the second machine would be a clone of the first, with the same serial number and spec code. As for the hardware, we probably stock most (if not all) of the hardware you would need (memory boards, DNC panels, etc) but it is useless without the software.

[countryguy828]

Thanks for the info, this is pointing me the right direction. So it is quite possible the memory is already there but the machines software limits how much is available...that's frustrating. Too bad we don't know what its programmed in and the source code, probably wouldn't be to hard to modify and recompile otherwise. I'm guessing getting the software out of the machine and looking at it would do no good, its probably compiled into machine langauge. I'll report to my bosses what I have learned here.

Dave

The issue isn't the hardware - it's the software. The software won't recognize the hardware unless it is written to specifically recognize it. The only way "around" having to obtain the software from Okuma is if you have two machines that are virtually identical (with same options, etc. except one of them has the extended memory or DNC-B) and then you could load that software into the machine that doesn't, once you locate and install the identical hardware. At that point, the second machine would be a clone of the first, with the same serial number and spec code. As for the hardware, we probably stock most (if not all) of the hardware you would need (memory boards, DNC panels, etc) but it is useless without the software.

[OkumaWiz]

When you purchase the first level memory upgrade from Okuma, you actually don't get anything extra, they just re-map the memory from MD0: to MD1:. So that being said, are you using MD0: for additional storage on the machine? it is possible to select and run programs from there. You also do have the ability to run larger that program run capacity programs by using the Schedule programming feature of the machine. It allows for loading/unloading programs in a schedule of files so that what ever you can fit in storage can be utilized and run by "breaking" the code into segments and running them successively. CNCTS11 is spot on of his assessment that software is key and what it needed to make things work.

[cncts11]

Actually, most likely the hardware isn't there either - they typically would only put in what the software was written for (unlike Fanuc, where often times the base memory was good for 320M or whatever and only 80M or 160M was "turned on"; if you wanted to go above 320M, you would then need to install a larger card). When I would do memory upgrades in the field (usually only on lathes because anyone with a mill would get the DNC-B option instead, since it was the same price), I would have to install a new memory card and then load the new software.

[cncts11]

Just saw Okumawiz post - he is correct in that if you want to store programs in the control, you can use MDO: directory, and how he described to run larger files. Using the MDO: directory is a bit risky - I've had customers do this and then delete the wrong file (or worse yet, do an initialization of the directory), with "less than desirable" results...lol. Just be careful...

[countryguy828]

Good stuff guys. I have been thinking about the md0; option but just as described afraid of the wrong thing being deleted, However it might be an option for our programs that never get deleted. I am interested in learning more about the scheduling option.

Dave

[kurmay]

Buffer size is optional spec for series OSP5000 , OSP7000 and OSPU100 contoller
for 5000 and 7000 (60M,160M,320M,640M)
for u100 (160M,320M,640M,1280M)

[countryguy828]

You guys ever get tired of answer the same questions over and over? I say that jokingly...

I checked this morning the u10m has 130k or so free in MD0: and the 700m has around 50k free in MD0:. We can consider that a poor option as they are too worried about deleting the wrong thing. Is reallocating MD0: memory to MD1: something I can do myself by changing a parameter or a setting in a system file or is it something Gosiger has to do for us?

At this point Scheduling is a better option if it works the way I understand it to work.
That is....
There are several files for the part lets call them MYPROG.SDF for the schedule file, then OP1.MIN, OP2.MIN, OP3.MIN...
schedule file gets loaded into md1: lets call it MYPROG.SDF. Now, on the Auto screen you pselect MYPROG.SDF then cycle start.
Now that MYPROG.SDF is running it pulls OP1.MIN off of FD1Floppy disk) and copies it into the buffer in MD1: and runs.
When it is finished the buffer is wiped out and OP2.MIN is copied off of FD1: into the buffer on MD1: and it runs.
Continuing again the buffer is cleared and OP3.MIN is copied from FD1: into buffer and it runs.
This continues until M02 is reached and the program ends.

If it does not work this way and is only loading from MD1: in sections I don't see a benefit of scheduling as we are still up against the memory size barrier.

I have downloaded some manuals that I have found with google searches and reference them. I do a lot of this research at home on my time to educate myself on the abilities and options available and to answer questions the bosses have me. The budget for upgrades is pretty much nill.

Thanks for the answers and your pateince guys. Wish I could find some guys close by to shoot the poop with and have a cold one that I could learn more from.

Dave

[deadlykitten]

hello country guy

We can consider that a poor option ...

consider talking with kurmay, the matrix key avatar guy he may be able to deliver your optional spec

i speak for him, because his post does not reveal clearly that he can deliver optional specs, and i know that he just sits and waits

Wish I could find some guys close by to shoot the poop with and have a cold one that I could learn more from

i don't really get it, but i'm in

If it does not work this way ...

you pretty much got it

the controller has a storage capacity and a load capacity

load capacity = what program size can be loaded inside the controller ( program select )

storage capacity = what total file size can exist inside the cnc, spread across available system devices ( may be more than 1 file, and not all of them have to be programs )

the storage capacity :
... can be increased ( that's what you are looking after )
... covers a few system devices : MD1, MD0, FD1, etc
... is not equal with the phisical storage capacity; for example, you may load inside a folder enough files until you fill up the hdd, but, if that folder is a system device, thus if that folder is important for the controller, then the maximum size of that folder is limited, even if there is plenty of space on the hdd

there may be more than a single system device; only one is default

if you don't specify the system device, it is considered MD1

if you wish to pin-point to another system device, use *.sdf files, and simply specify the root ( directory path ) for the system device

when the controller loads a program, it must not have a size bigger then it's load capacity

so, if your program is big, break it into paragraps that have a size smaller then the load capacity

each paragraph will be inside a file, and these files you may spread across the system devices

of course, you may spread as many files as you like, with the condition that those files should not have a total size that is bigger then how much the system device can store

actually, is not ok to fill up the system device, because the controller needs a bit of free space

for example, on osp 300L, i may put inside MD1 cca 2gb ( = storage capacity ), but the program should not be larger then 2mb ( = load capacity ); if i will fill the MD1, then i won't be able to edit my programs anymore, because editing a program requires that program to be opened into an unused portion of the storage space, and if it is filled up, not only that you won't be able to edit, but you may lose the file

on newer controls are options to manage the "load capacity" ( eq : make it equal with the "storage capacity" ), but this is another story, which involves nesting levels, choosing between conditional functions and code linearity, etc

If it does not work this way and is only loading from MD1: in sections I don't see a benefit of scheduling as we are still up against the memory size barrier

of course, if the storage capacity is low, there is no point in scheduling

scheduling on same system device is ok when there is enough storage space / otherwise, useless

and copies it into the buffer in MD1

not quite file content is loaded into a storage space = load capacity size, and from there, it is read by the controller through a buffer

if buffer size = load capacity size, then we talk about a one-shot loading

otherwise, the buffer will keep reading portions of the program, from the storage space, and so on ...


kindly

[OkumaWiz]

You are mostly correct. The schedule file copies the program into the run buffer (program capacity) rather than MD1: (program storage) when it runs. Each program will have an M02 at the end of it because it is a complete program that is being called. The schedule program has END as the last line, but your description is basically correct.

The FD0: is only available on the MC's and not the lathes.

This is a sample schedule program that was used on a twin spindle twin turret machine.
It had the capability of working like a "program menu".
Just scroll to the line of what you want to execute and IL/cycle start to run it.

Code selects main program, section of main program to run, sub program location used when running main. If you add another comma and Q2 at the end of the PSELECT it would repeat the program "Q" times in this case 2. N1 PSELECT P63.MIN,OP1,P63.SUB,Q2

Sample "menu style" SDF.

END
N1 PSELECT P63.MIN,OP1,P63.SUB
END
NP PSELECT P63.MIN,OPASS,P63.SUB
END
N2 PSELECT P63.MIN,OP2,P63.SUB
END
N12 PSELECT P63.MIN,OP12,P63.SUB
END
NW PSELECT P63.MIN,OWARM,P63.SUB,Q3
END
NA PSELECT P63.MIN,OP1,P63.SUB
NP2 PSELECT P63.MIN,OPASS,P63.SUB
N2 PSELECT P63.MIN,OP2,P63.SUB
END


More than what you asked for I know, but I like to get people thinking out of the box...

Your MYPROG.SDF would be :

PSELECT FD0:OP1.MIN,,,Q1
PSELECT FD0:OP2.MIN,,,Q1
PSELECT FD0:OP3.MIN,,,Q1
END

This would allow you to run 3 programs in succession and then stop. Each program would be limited to your max program capacity on your machine. Check your SPEC code to see what that is - maybe 30 or 60k as standard.

Ona side note, some people are replacing the floppy drives with Floppy to USB conversions. They have USB ports and they show up as multiple FD drives of 1.4Mb each so then it becomes possible to run more than even 1 floppy can hold. I think as much as 99 floppy drives can be accessed from 1 usb. You can find them on ebay for about 10 times less than you can get them from your dealer.

Best regards,

[kurmay]

let me give you some information

1280 Meters = 512K
640 Meters = 256K
320 Meters = 128K
160 Meters = 64K
60 Meters = 24K

[countryguy828]

Thank You Guys Very Much!

This is the info I needed, Hopefully I will have time over the weekend to read through it more and mentally digest it.

BTW, Any of Ya'll in Western Ohio or Eastern Indiana area?

Thank You Again,
Dave

[countryguy828]

OK fellas after some time to think things over...

I think scheduling will work for us in the short term at least.

As for the USB conversion, my boss has showed interest in this idea. I think for longevity it is a good idea only time is standing between floppy disks and reliability. As for increasing storage space yes and no. Yes it will be able to hold more than 1.44 MB but I don't see how the machine will see more than 1.44 MB at a time unless you are quick enough to be there and hit the button on the adapter at the right time to change virtual disks.

The menu program sounds interesting and I'd like to see it work but for us I don't think it would do any good.

Thanks again,
Dave

[countryguy828]

And another thought just to satisfy my curiosity...

If a guy adds another memory card into the machine what happens? I can think of 3 possibilities. A) nothing, nothing will happen unless software is updated. B) the memory becomes available to MD0:, without a software change. C)the memory shows up in MD1:, without a software change.

How is the software changed? Is it a parameter in the machine? or a parameter in the software that loads on bootup?

I guess its a trade secret Okuma is keeping under wraps.

Dave

[deadlykitten]

hello countryguy

If a guy adds another memory card

at least on newer controls, the software overwrites the frequency of the flash memory; i guess it is not enough only to put it there

How is the software changed?

normally, the software is pre-build, including the new update, and needs to be loaded inside the cnc

I guess its a trade secret Okuma is keeping under wraps

some options can be added by editing some specific files; requires swimming skills = kurmay / kindly

[OkumaWiz]

The correct answer is A. Memory is defined by Spec code, so only software change from Okuma will recognize more hardware. Yes Okuma protects their jewels...kurmay? Enlighten us?

When adding the floppy drives, the capacity is 1.44mb from each virtual FD, but the schedule program can access all of them up to 99 in a schedule program so it would give you roughly 138mb max file size limit of 99 1.44 mb sections.

PSELECT FD0:A1.MIN,,,Q1
PSELECT FD1:A2.MIN,,,Q1
PSELECT FD2:A3.MIN,,,Q1
~
~
~
PSELECT FD99: A100.MIN,,,Q1
END

Not the easiest way to do it, but probably the least expensive way to get over 100mb to run on your machine.

Best regards,

PS: I'll be driving through your neighborhood tomorrow afternoon on my way to the motor city.