[Phil_Par]

looking for recommendations to upgrade my Makita router to a spindle. I seen older posts that there are some VFDs which are harder to program? Main reason for a change is how loud my router is at idle. looking for an air cooled unit that would work with 120V.

[fretman_2]

I've got the Makita trim router as my spindle. It is loud and the cooling air blown out of the bottom sends wood dust everywhere. Still...I like it. I had a deflector at the bottom that discharges air off the side. I need to put that back on. I also need to design a dust shoe too. I have hearing protection on while the machine is working, so the noise isn't so bad.

The issue in my shop is I don't have 220v available and the 115v options for spindles aren't so good.

looking for recommendation to upgrade my Makita router to a spindle. I seen older post that there are some VFDs which are harder to program? Main reason for a change is how loud my router is at idle. looking for an air cooled unit.

[davida1234]

People say that the Hitachi M12VC is one of the quieter routers. But, it is still a brushed router and can't compare to a "real" brushless spindle. There are 1.5/1.75 kW spindles with VFD's that run on 120 volts.

[fretman_2]

Not to hijack the tread, but I need some education on 110v single phase VFD's and which spindle I can get for them...

People say that the Hitachi M12VC is one of the quieter routers. But, it is still a brushed router and can't compare to a "real" brushless spindle. There are 1.5/1.75 kW spindles with VFD's that run on 120 volts.

[davida1234]

Not to hijack the tread, but I need some education on 110v single phase VFD's and which spindle I can get for them...

There are a bunch of them on eBay. No clue if they are good or not but they are there. And if you are thinking using a router and SuperPid for speed control, it is very close in price.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-2-2KW-110V-WATER-COOLED-ER20-SPINDLE-MOTOR-2-2KW-INVERTER-80MM-CLAMP-PUMP/142999335811?hash=item214b6cb383:g:9a0AAOSwmNlb3M2 U:rk:17f:0

Actually I just realized that the link is for a 2.2kW @ 110 volts spindle even! I am not sure I would go for 2.2kW at 110 volts though. That's like 20 + amps.

[mactec54]

There are a bunch of them on eBay. No clue if they are good or not but they are there. And if you are thinking using a router and SuperPid for speed control, it is very close in price.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-2-2KW-110V-WATER-COOLED-ER20-SPINDLE-MOTOR-2-2KW-INVERTER-80MM-CLAMP-PUMP/142999335811?hash=item214b6cb383:g:9a0AAOSwmNlb3M2 U:rk:17f:0

Actually I just realized that the link is for a 2.2kW @ 110 volts spindle even! I am not sure I would go for 2.2kW at 110 volts though. That's like 20 + amps.

Yes they are junk and do not work well nobody should buy a 110V 3ph spindle of any size range, these are just made for the newbies that buy them because they don't know any better

[CNC-Pal]

Yes they are junk and do not work well nobody should buy a 120V 3ph spindle of any size range, these are just made for the newbies that buy them because they don't know any better

I'm afraid that I'm one of those newbies that didn't know any better. I bought one of those rated for 110V 2.2kw spindles like this one:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2-2k...AbTest=ae803_4

I can't return it because it's been over a year since the initial purchase. I planned on installing it this spring.
I decided on this water cooled spindle because I don't like the noise or the dust getting blown around from an air cooled setup like a router.

What would now be my best solution to get the most out of my poor selection? Is it the VFD, Spindle, or both the problem?
Is there a way to reprogram or modify/change the setup to get 240V performance from what I now have and basically stuck with?

When I asked the seller about the performance difference between the 110V and 220V, they of course told me similar because they said the VFD controls the motor, not the initial input voltage. They also told me that the 220V VFD version is fed on 1 line (like UK) instead of 2 110V lines like our system does. I don't have a background that would help me know any better.


.

[mactec54]

Not to hijack the tread, but I need some education on 110v single phase VFD's and which spindle I can get for them...

You only want to buy a system like this if the VFD Drive has listed 110v / 120v Input which is what your supply is and 220v output they have a doubler built in the VFD Drive, then you can run up to a 1.5Kw 220v spindle, this is the only route to take

[Biggs427]

People say that the Hitachi M12VC is one of the quieter routers. But, it is still a brushed router and can't compare to a "real" brushless spindle. There are 1.5/1.75 kW spindles with VFD's that run on 120 volts.

I replaced my Makita RT0701c with a Hitachi M12VC and it is louder than the Makita. The Makita is the quietest router I've ever worked with. Even if the M12VC is louder, once I start cutting, the cutter is way louder than the router.

[fretman_2]

I'll stick with my RT0701c for now and just put an air deflector at the bottom.

I replaced my Makita RT0701c with a Hitachi M12VC and it is louder than the Makita. The Makita is the quietest router I've ever worked with. Even if the M12VC is louder, once I start cutting, the cutter is way louder than the router.

[wizard]

If the spindle is idle shut it off. There is no noise from a spindle that isn’t running.

As for routers they are all noisy.

As for spindles most of the 120VAC ones I know about are low power and Are wanting in some way or another. Given that you can find VFDs that will run small 220VAC motors on 120 VAc. A better approach might be a step up transformer. Better yet put in a 220 volt line in the shop.

[ger21]

You can find a lot of threads from people having issues with 2.2KW 120V spindles and VFD's.

[Phil_Par]

I was thinking 1.5kw on a 120V(15A) circuit. I will do a little more digging on issues most users have encountered.

[mactec54]

I was thinking 1.5kw on a 120V(15A) circuit. I will do a little more digging on issues most users have encountered.

You need a minimum of a 25A circuit for a 1.5Kw spindle running on 120v supply make sure if you do this that you get a 120v input VFD Drive that is 220v output then your spindle will be 1.5Kw 220v

[Phil_Par]

what would be the advantage of having an output of 220V compared to a 110V output for a 110V spindle?

[mactec54]

what would be the advantage of having an output of 220V compared to a 110V output for a 110V spindle?

There is no such thing as 110v 3phase ac motors this is a made up motor that they come up with, to catch the 120v NA hobby marked the problem is it is very inefficient and does not perform, any where near at the rated Kw

See if you can find a 1.5Kw 110v spindle with the correct amps rating that would be need for it to be a 1.5Kw 9.5A minimum depending on efficiency

The snip below tells you the amperage you need to supply the VFD Drive with the different voltages

[Phil_Par]

Wmgeorge and mactec, thanks for the info provided. Going back to the basics helps understand the limitations of the motors in question.
I was extremely skeptical about adding a 220v outlet to power a spindle but after some digging it seems a very easy process. Risk serious injury involved but I would let my buddy work on the breaker panel and I will do the wiring; he is an electrician. I think this will be the best solution. Which is what I was recommended at first but was not aware how simple the work is, my bad.
Now, I will need to decide if I want a 220v 1.5kw or 2.2kw spindle...back to researching a bit more!

[wmgeorge]

Phil you can listen to a guy that knows and has done it for over 50 years, or you listen to some guy BS on the internet. I have credentials he has none. There is nothing in the NEC covering what he is saying. BTW the drain wire is twisted and either soldered or crimped to un-braided mesh shield. Pretty damn simple I have seen it done thousands of times. As a licensed radio tech, its pretty hard to make an antenna out of wire 1/2 inch long going to a solid metal ground.

[mactec54]

Phil you can listen to a guy that knows and has done it for over 50 years, or you listen to some guy BS on the internet. I have credentials he has none. There is nothing in the NEC covering what he is saying. BTW the drain wire is twisted and either soldered or crimped to un-braided mesh shield. Pretty damn simple I have seen it done thousands of times. As a licensed radio tech, its pretty hard to make an antenna out of wire 1/2 inch long going to a solid metal ground.

It just shows your ignorance, nobody quoted NEC, we know who is talking BS, that is quite obvious, look at the Graph it shows what you get when you add a tail to a shield, this is only at low frequency it is much worse when using singe phase high frequency VFD drive

Look at your VFD manual you will see it is plan and clear, but I guess you know better than the manufacture

From your Hitachi Manual

Both earth portions of the shielded cable must be connected to the earth point by cable clamps.

I guess you get confused with what the manufacturers requirements mean, as you know better than they do (nuts)

Snip from your Hitachi Manual

[wmgeorge]

Mactec 54, if your internet went down and you lost google YOU would be lost. What are your credentials? What have you done besides run a production CNC machine and surf the internet? What have you done, nothing. A hunk of wire 1/2 inch long can not be an antenna for anything when its hooked to ground, think about it.

PS My setup works perfectly and I wired it the way I described to Phil. I just don't read, I do it.