[mkelcy]

My apologies for a long first post. If this is the wrong forum, please feel free to relocate.

I’m planning on getting a CNC router later this year primarily for hobby and maybe eventually small luthier commercial production (my son, not me). My interests are working in wood (carvings, boxes, decorative items, maybe furniture and the occasional bit of cabinetry) and, down the road to support my car hobby, aluminum up to maybe 0.5” for one-off brackets, interior trim pieces and the like, and maybe some plasma sheet metal cutting. I might want to play with a 4th axis someday, but that’s not an immediate need/interest. I’m completely new to CNC so not invested in any particular family of controller or controller software. However, I’m not new to building mechanical things, assembling electronic equipment or wiring. I’ve always purchased the best tool I could afford, and I’ve read the “buy your second CNC first” advice. Finally, I’d like to keep the overall budget for this purchase to $12,000 or so.

I’ve been doing my usual OCD on-line research and have tentatively concluded that a CNCRP Pro6060 (think Baltic birch) set up for NEMA 34 motors, with an extended gantry and a leg kit would be my best bet for the mechanical basis of my machine. While I’d prefer a welded steel frame machine, nothing in the DIY sphere seems to offer a better foundation at this size than the CNCRP machines. I’m a little concerned about the overall weight/stiffness of the bolted assembly, but despite looking online for vibration/stiffness issues with the CNCRP machines, I’ve come up empty. Nonetheless, I’d plan to add sheer to the legs, and maybe a shelf for storage/weight. So, tentatively, CNCRP for the basic mechanicals, at about $6,200 for the Pro6060 with extended gantry and leg kit.

As much as I would love to be able to go with the CNCRP PnP electronics, I’m not impressed with what I’ve read about Mach3/4, and that seems to be the lane CNCRP wants to stay in. I’m also not interested in paying for a PnP controller that I would have to adapt to use another system, which would no longer be either PnP or supported by CNCRP. So that leaves me building a controller, assembling the other electronics and relying on the kindness of strangers for tech support.

I’ve read with interest the reviews of the Centroid Acorn, and am particularly intrigued by both their long history in CNC and their apparent interest in supporting the DIY CNC router community, including apparently offering a router version of their CNC12 Pro software in the near future. If I ever went to a 4th axis in the future, I could run the slave for the Pro6060 off the basic Y axis, so I think I would be good on capacity.

I’m thinking DMM Dyn4 drivers, motors, cables, etc. I figure I should be able to do all of the electronics (enclosure, contactors, breakers, filters, controller, motors, cables, and the rest of the stuff I’m trying to get up to speed on) for about $3,000-$3,200.

I plan on getting a Chinese spindle, but don’t have any good idea what or from whom yet. I’m tentatively budgeting $500 for a 2.2KW spindle and VFD.

For software, beyond Centroid’s CNC12 Pro (hopefully for routers), I plan on VCarve Pro and Fusion 360 (both of which I’ve looked at but would need to learn as I went). I like the idea of the parametric design in Fusion 360.

With tooling and the inevitable “oops, forgot that” items, I think I’m right around (or maybe a bit over) my $12K. That’s not a hard number, but more a self-imposed desirable limit.
For me, the process of assembling the table, mechanicals and controller would be nearly as much hobby/enjoyment as the eventual use of the machine and I like the idea of knowing as much as possible about my equipment.

Questions:
1. Are there options other than the Pro6060 I should look at for the mechanical basics?
2. Would a Pro4848 be materially more solid than the Pro6060?
3. Are there options other than the Centroid Acorn I should look at for the basic CNC controller?
4. Are Dyn4’s over kill for a Pro6060? Is the machine stiff enough to take advantage of their capabilities?
5. Any specific recommendations on spindle size/cooling/source? Is my $500 estimate in the ball park?
6. Does this sound like a reasonable plan?
7. Is there something I haven’t thought of that’s going to blow my budget?
8. And the biggest question of all, would I be better off kicking my budget to $15-16K and getting a CAMaster Stinger II (ready to go (theoretically), seemingly good customer and tech support, but steppers vs. servos, smaller work area, maybe a smaller user/peer-to-peer support base)? In other words, what are the pros and cons of what I'm proposing versus a Stinger II?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts/advice/recommendations. I know how much fun it is to spend someone else’s money.

[he1957]

For CNC controls, have a look at UCCNC - they have just released a new all-in-one driver/breakout board and are offering a special deal. It might suit your needs and by accounts UCCNC is "better" than Mach-X.

Apart from recent reports of quality control "issues", the Saturn series machines, frame/mechanically are very robust and if you like fiddling to "make it right" they might be worth a look. Accuracy of base level construction is the current issue, have a look through this forum.

vCarve Pro is one of the more popular paid packages but a lot of praise is given to Fusion 360 (unpaid hobby use). There are other options such as OpenSource.

Chinese machines can be good value for money but many folks say avoid some of the Chinese controls or breakout boards. Be sure to convey what you want and what they say in return to understand you asked for if going this route.

As you say, allow for tooling, this can add cost quickly, especially during the initial learning curve. Breaking bits can be a no-brainer (meaning it doesn't need many brain cells to break some :-)).

Think about work-piece holding, clamps, nuts and bolts, screws or vacuum tables or pod arrangements. Dust collection is also important for your lungs!

Finally, on your biggest question (8), I just read in your own post above that said "Buy your 2nd CNC machine first) which I thought was absolute gold!

Good luck and thanks! - it was fun to contemplate spending your hard earned hobby dollars!

[mkelcy]

For CNC controls, have a look at UCCNC - they have just released a new all-in-one driver/breakout board and are offering a special deal. It might suit your needs and by accounts UCCNC is "better" than Mach-X.

Apart from recent reports of quality control "issues", the Saturn series machines, frame/mechanically are very robust and if you like fiddling to "make it right" they might be worth a look. Accuracy of base level construction is the current issue, have a look through this forum.

vCarve Pro is one of the more popular paid packages but a lot of praise is given to Fusion 360 (unpaid hobby use). There are other options such as OpenSource.

Chinese machines can be good value for money but many folks say avoid some of the Chinese controls or breakout boards. Be sure to convey what you want and what they say in return to understand you asked for if going this route.

As you say, allow for tooling, this can add cost quickly, especially during the initial learning curve. Breaking bits can be a no-brainer (meaning it doesn't need many brain cells to break some :-)).

Think about work-piece holding, clamps, nuts and bolts, screws or vacuum tables or pod arrangements. Dust collection is also important for your lungs!

Finally, on your biggest question (8), I just read in your own post above that said "Buy your 2nd CNC machine first) which I thought was absolute gold!

Good luck and thanks! - it was fun to contemplate spending your hard earned hobby dollars!

Thanks for the response.

Dust collection is covered - 5HP, 3,000+ CFM Dust Gorilla already installed.

I was aware of UCCNC and looked at some of the forum sites, but didn't dig too deep. I'll take another look.

I'd love it if the Fine Line Saturn 2 were built to spec; but while I love to build stuff, I'm not a big fan of rebuilding because of someone else's - shall we say - relaxed approach to a build. The issues people seem to have been having with their build quality has me a little gun shy.

Never thought of a Chinese machine - seems like the luck of the draw - could be great, could be not so great. I could go Laguna or PowerMate or any of the other "name" brands who import Chinese machines, but you're paying for the name and, hopefully, support, but I wonder about how well they can support a machine they didn't build. Right now, pending responses, it's likely CNCRP or CAMaster.

I've been doing table saw/drill press/router table stuff for a long time so have a modest collection of clamps, t-rail, etc. I also thought I might build some vacuum jigs once I had the machine up and running.

Yeah, as I was typing number 8, the big question, I was wondering if I didn't have my answer - but I'm probably looking at more like an $18K machine with spindle, etc. and that jump from $12K to $18K is a lot of "practice" tooling, hence the question.

Again thanks for taking the time to read my novel.

[wmgeorge]

You can buy a Camaster Stinger 4x4 machine for about $12-14k and have one that will Work out of the box, state of the art control system and has a resale value when you want to move up. Some folks poo-poo resale value but if you do a DIY have fun selling when you want to upsize. I have been down that road. .My Saturn 2 I have zero issues with. There are others who have had a lot of problems. The owner of one machine sent his back for a refund.

The CNC Router Parts people are wonderful to work with and sell a good product. I would buy the Pro one in a heartbeat. There is nothing wrong with Mach3 or Mach4. Mach3 is the most widely used controller system out there. Mach4 is lightyears ahead and both have lots of support.

[mkelcy]

You can buy a Camaster Stinger 4x4 machine for about $12-14k and have one that will Work out of the box, state of the art control system and has a resale value when you want to move up. Some folks poo-poo resale value but if you do a DIY have fun selling when you want to upsize. I have been down that road. .My Saturn 2 I have zero issues with. There are others who have had a lot of problems. The owner of one machine sent his back for a refund.

The CNC Router Parts people are wonderful to work with and sell a good product. I would buy the Pro one in a heartbeat. There is nothing wrong with Mach3 or Mach4. Mach3 is the most widely used controller system out there. Mach4 is lightyears ahead and both have lots of support.

Hadn't thought about resale - that's a good point. I was drawn to the CNCRP offering because it's expandable - need a bigger table, add on! Steel frame you're replacing.

So far as I can see the CNCRP customer service is good. I know lots of people are using Mach 3, I know lots of Mach 3 users can't wait to move on to another system. I haven't read much about Mach 4, and don't know if the CNCRP Mach 3 box would run Mach 4 when they decide to make the switch, if they ever do.

Thanks for your comments, more food for thought.

[OlfCNC]

You can easily convert the CNCRP control system to UC300ETH-5LPT if you will purchase the CNCRP control box too. Someone did that convertion and documented it on this forum somewhere. just search the forum for it to see.
Then you can use Mach3, Mach4, UCCNC. I would go with the UCCNC though but you can check them and decide.

If you will build your own controller then you could use this new controller: CNCdrive - motion controls
Example wiring is on the web page. And the UCCNC license key is now free for the first 250 sold controllers.

[ger21]

There is nothing wrong with Mach3 or Mach4.

Actually, there's a lot wrong with Mach3. But it works pretty well for tens of thousands of people. But today, after 5 years of no development, there are a lot of better options.

People using Mach4 say that it's far superior to Mach3. It seems to have gotten a lot better in the last year or two.

Everyone has their own preferences when it comes to controls, and none are perfect.

3. Are there options other than the Centroid Acorn I should look at for the basic CNC controller?

UCCNC
LinuxCNC
EdingCNC

1. Are there options other than the Pro6060 I should look at for the mechanical basics?

Not really. CNCRP is at the top of the DIY market.

2. Would a Pro4848 be materially more solid than the Pro6060?

All things being equal, as you increase the size of the machine, it's going to get less rigid. How much is hard to say. You may not be able to tell the difference?

4. Are Dyn4’s over kill for a Pro6060? Is the machine stiff enough to take advantage of their capabilities?

One issue is that the CNCRP drive system is designed for steppers, that max out around 1000 rpm. DMM servos can spin up to 5000 rpm. Ideally, you'd want a much higher gear reduction to take full advantage of them
Clearpath servos might be a better choice, as they were designed as stepper replacements.

5. Any specific recommendations on spindle size/cooling/source? Is my $500 estimate in the ball park?

Round generic Chinese 2.2Kw spindles / VFD packages start at about $300-$325. These are easily the most popular models used. You can easily spend $1000-$2000 on a non-Chinese spindle

A non chinese VFD alone will usually be $300-$350.

8. And the biggest question of all, would I be better off kicking my budget to $15-16K and getting a CAMaster Stinger II (ready to go (theoretically), seemingly good customer and tech support, but steppers vs. servos, smaller work area, maybe a smaller user/peer-to-peer support base)? In other words, what are the pros and cons of what I'm proposing versus a Stinger II?

Since I've never seen a Camaster in person, I can't really answer that. Most of that extra cost is going into the WinCNC control and HSD spindle. The Camaster is probably a bit more rigid, but you'll probably be limited by spindle power with the CNCRP machine.
Both Camaster and CNCRP have large, loyal user bases. And by all accounts, both have good support.

[GME]

Hadn't thought about resale - that's a good point. I was drawn to the CNCRP offering because it's expandable - need a bigger table, add on! Steel frame you're replacing.

So far as I can see the CNCRP customer service is good. I know lots of people are using Mach 3, I know lots of Mach 3 users can't wait to move on to another system. I haven't read much about Mach 4, and don't know if the CNCRP Mach 3 box would run Mach 4 when they decide to make the switch, if they ever do.

Thanks for your comments, more food for thought.

Although I don't have a CNCRP machine (I'm building a self-designed 80/20-based machine as my second CNC), I have purchased parts from them. I can attest to their customer service. It's great.

I am a happy Mach4 user. The CNCRP PNP boxes will run Mach4. The folks at CNCRP are working out some issues, (with plasma, I believe) and have said they will support Mach4 it in the not-do-distant future. The CNCRP PNP box has Warp9 ESS Smoothstepper. Most of Mach4's setup is done in the Smoothstepper plugin for Mach4. Warp9 has an excellent tutorial for setting up Mach4, including some of the setting done in the base Mach4 configuration file. Here is a link, in case you decide to go that way: https://warp9td.com/index.php/gettin...pper-and-mach4.

I built my own control box, but didn't keep track of what the parts cost. Sorry, but I can't give you an estimate on the cost. Mine is setup along the lines of the CNCRP control box, but with differences. I preferred to use XLR plugs for connections to the box. I also used the PMDX-126 breakout board, which is optimized for the ESS Smoothstepper, and PMDX-107 sister board, which controls my VFD/Spindle. Here's a line to PMDX: PMDX.COM - Products for CNC and motion control applications, I am running steppers, but Clearpath servos look pretty good. My stepper drives are Gecko.

Gary

[routalot]

I would like to introduce a few alternative thoughts,not simply because I am a contrarian,but to advise you that you are correct to consider and discuss all aspects of the project.I think there are three separate phases to be dealt with;the mechanics of the machine,the control system and the CAD/CAM process to generate the toolpaths.

If you have expectations of machining non-ferrous metals you need sufficient weight and rigidity to deal with the machining loads and you can't expect a router to perform as well as a mill and the much higher spindle speeds may limit you in other ways.Do you anticipate using ballscrews or rack and pinion to move the axes?Long ballscrews can whip if driven quickly so consider the travel of you axes and the diameter of the screw.I don't know the specifics of the CNCRP machine or what scope there may be to adapt it to your requirements.

Are you only considering Mach3/4 because you are not aware of alternatives?Is it because you are comfortable with Windows?From the machine's point of view it receives 0's and 1's and has no notion of what type of system that generated them.I have used machines operating under OS2/Warp (you won't find that around any more but it was utterly stable) Windows and Linux and they all worked.I have played with an Arduino,but never on a complete CNC machine.Have you considered downloading a few trial versions to see what they look and feel like?In the case of Arduino/GRBL and LinuxCNC you can download and try the real thing.You can also find quite a few videos on youtube giving good advice on configuring them.I came at a home router project as another step down in the technology ladder.I began with a 5 axis large machine in a professional composite business and then a different company with a large 3 axis router and now I have built myself a tiny machine for hobby use.This gave me the ability to model objects and create toolpaths but the control system was unknown territory and much more time consuming than I would have liked.The good thing was that the information is out there,but not necessarily all in one place.It must have been sufficient because none of the magic smoke has escaped yet.

For the CAD/CAM side of things you have options of free or bought and judging from some of the requests on this site for postprocessors that should have been packaged,there is a lot of pirate or cracked software out there too.Fusion and V-carve have lots of adherents.Personally I use Freecad and F-engrave which are free and will remain so and they both work under Linux or Windows in fact I installed the Windows version of F-engrave as I run it under Wine and found it easier to install additional true-type fonts with the Windows version.Again,I suggest you try downloading some software and learning how to create objects and toolpaths as it will be immensely frustrating to have a shiny new machine sitting there with nothing to run on it.

This looks like the beginning of a well considered project-please keep us posted on what transpires.

[mkelcy]

You can easily convert the CNCRP control system to UC300ETH-5LPT if you will purchase the CNCRP control box too. Someone did that convertion and documented it on this forum somewhere. just search the forum for it to see.

Then you can use Mach3, Mach4, UCCNC. I would go with the UCCNC though but you can check them and decide.
If you will build your own controller then you could use this new controller: CNCdrive - motion controls

Example wiring is on the web page. And the UCCNC license key is now free for the first 250 sold controllers.

Thanks for the suggestion. The way I see it part of the price of the PnP system is tech support. Instead of buying a built controller (and paying for the labor to build it and the follow-on tech support), but then modifying it and thus losing tech support for the box, I’d prefer to build my own and upgrade the controller, controller software (at least as compared to Mach 3) and motors while I’m at it. If CNCRP adapted and supported Mach4, that could be a whole different story.

[Lot's of good information omitted]

Ger21 – much to think about. I’ll check with CNCRP concerning the relative “stiffness” of the Pro 4848 versus the Pro6060, the extra length on each side was exactly my concern. My thought was to add sheer (panels) to the legs on each of the side to stiffen either of them up. Then it’s a matter of how stiff the basic machine is.

Both UCCNC and EdingCNC look interesting. Both appear to go beyond 4 axes without breaking the bank and both offer hardware and software from one supplier. My concerns are how clear are the installation/use instructions and how robust is the online support community. More to look at. While this old dog is willing to learn new tricks, I’ve been solely in the PC world since DOS 3.1, and having to wrangle both CNC and a new operating system may be asking too much.

Apparently if the DMM NEMA 32 servos are driven with a Dyn2 driver, their top speed is limited to 2,000 rpm. I’ll ask CNCRP if that’s still too much for their drive system. Four Dyn2s are a little over $300 less than 4 Dyn4s. I’ll need to see if there’s any loss of functionality between the Dyn4 and the Dyn2. They both seem to use the same software, so that’s encouraging.
Clearpath servos are also clearly another good option. I’ll need to price both out and see which looks easier to build (although you only build once).

Round generic Chinese 2.2Kw spindles / VFD packages it is!

The base Stinger II uses a router, so I’m assuming at least another $1,000 or more for a spindle/VFD that CAMaster would warranty. I wasn’t sure what you meant by “you'll probably be limited by spindle power with the CNCRP machine.” Do you mean that the CNCRP machine will only accept a spindle of a limited size, or that the design won’t support spindle power beyond a certain point?

Although I don't have a CNCRP machine (I'm building a self-designed 80/20-based machine as my second CNC), I have purchased parts from them. I can attest to their customer service. It's great.

I am a happy Mach4 user. The CNCRP PNP boxes will run Mach4. The folks at CNCRP are working out some issues, (with plasma, I believe) and have said they will support Mach4 it in the not-do-distant future. The CNCRP PNP box has Warp9 ESS Smoothstepper. Most of Mach4's setup is done in the Smoothstepper plugin for Mach4. Warp9 has an excellent tutorial for setting up Mach4, including some of the setting done in the base Mach4 configuration file. Here is a link, in case you decide to go that way: https://warp9td.com/index.php/gettin...pper-and-mach4.

I built my own control box, but didn't keep track of what the parts cost. Sorry, but I can't give you an estimate on the cost. Mine is setup along the lines of the CNCRP control box, but with differences. I preferred to use XLR plugs for connections to the box. I also used the PMDX-126 breakout board, which is optimized for the ESS Smoothstepper, and PMDX-107 sister board, which controls my VFD/Spindle. Here's a line to PMDX: PMDX.COM - Products for CNC and motion control applications, I am running steppers, but Clearpath servos look pretty good. My stepper drives are Gecko.

Gary

That’s good news (I think) about CNCRP supporting Mach4. My reservation is, I’m kind of looking forward to building a controller box. I’ll look at your link. My thoughts about Mach4 may have been somewhat affected by the negative comments about Mach3. I need to look at Mach4 with an unbiased eye. LOL, as for XLR plugs, etc., right now I’m so far from worrying about what kind of plugs I’ll use that I’m embarrassed. But my OCD will overcome all and I’ll have a good list by the time it all happens.

On a different note, one of the things that appeals to me about the CNCRP/self-built controller route versus the Stinger II, is that I can roll out those expenditures over time, rather than writing one big check all at once. No spousal unit to worry about, but still. My thought was spec and build the electronics, then order and build the CNCRP Pro6060. Any pitfalls in doing it that way?

I would like to introduce a few alternative thoughts,not simply because I am a contrarian,but to advise you that you are correct to consider and discuss all aspects of the project.I think there are three separate phases to be dealt with;the mechanics of the machine,the control system and the CAD/CAM process to generate the toolpaths.

If you have expectations of machining non-ferrous metals you need sufficient weight and rigidity to deal with the machining loads and you can't expect a router to perform as well as a mill and the much higher spindle speeds may limit you in other ways.Do you anticipate using ballscrews or rack and pinion to move the axes?Long ballscrews can whip if driven quickly so consider the travel of you axes and the diameter of the screw.I don't know the specifics of the CNCRP machine or what scope there may be to adapt it to your requirements.

Are you only considering Mach3/4 because you are not aware of alternatives?Is it because you are comfortable with Windows?From the machine's point of view it receives 0's and 1's and has no notion of what type of system that generated them.I have used machines operating under OS2/Warp (you won't find that around any more but it was utterly stable) Windows and Linux and they all worked.I have played with an Arduino,but never on a complete CNC machine.Have you considered downloading a few trial versions to see what they look and feel like?In the case of Arduino/GRBL and LinuxCNC you can download and try the real thing.You can also find quite a few videos on youtube giving good advice on configuring them.I came at a home router project as another step down in the technology ladder.I began with a 5 axis large machine in a professional composite business and then a different company with a large 3 axis router and now I have built myself a tiny machine for hobby use.This gave me the ability to model objects and create toolpaths but the control system was unknown territory and much more time consuming than I would have liked.The good thing was that the information is out there,but not necessarily all in one place.It must have been sufficient because none of the magic smoke has escaped yet.

For the CAD/CAM side of things you have options of free or bought and judging from some of the requests on this site for postprocessors that should have been packaged,there is a lot of pirate or cracked software out there too.Fusion and V-carve have lots of adherents.Personally I use Freecad and F-engrave which are free and will remain so and they both work under Linux or Windows in fact I installed the Windows version of F-engrave as I run it under Wine and found it easier to install additional true-type fonts with the Windows version.Again,I suggest you try downloading some software and learning how to create objects and toolpaths as it will be immensely frustrating to have a shiny new machine sitting there with nothing to run on it.

This looks like the beginning of a well considered project-please keep us posted on what transpires.

Thanks for your comments. The CNCRP Pro6060 uses RnP on the X and Y axes, and ball screws on Z.

Until Gary’s post I wasn’t considering any of the Machs. I’ll look at Mach4. My thoughts had been Centroid, now expanded by Ger21 to include UCCNC and Eding controllers/software.
I’ve seen enough Centroid/DMM/Clearpath Youtube videos to last a lifetime (until I have a specific question). But it’s a good thought to look for videos on the other systems that are now in the mix.

As above, I’d prefer not to try to learn CNC using the completely unfamiliar (to me) Linux operating system. My son-in-law is a Linux aficionado, but he might not be too happy if I got stuck on something at 1 AM.

I’ve downloaded the trial version of VCarvePro and the full (free for non-commercial use) version of Fusion 360. I can already see doing part of a job in Fusion 360 (the basic structure of a box, for example) and the rest in VCarvePro (engraving the lid). There’s something about the parametric design capability in Fusion 360 that appeals to my innate laziness. I watched some Fusion 360 tutorials by a Youtuber (Lars Christensen) that were enough to allow me to independently design a round wood box, with 4 internal pie shaped compartments carved down to within 0.5” of the bottom of the material, and offsetting 0.25” lips for the top and bottom (so they’d nest) using parametric design (elements are placed in relation to one another). What was really cool was that I could specify a different height for my material and the program kept the same relationship for the carve out of the compartments, i.e., if the height went up 0.5”, the program carved 0.5” deeper to preserve the 0.5” thickness for the bottom of the interior compartment. I’m sure this is old news for most of you, but I was jazzed. I think it’ll also work for the lips, so I could change the width of the material, I just haven’t (successfully) tried it yet.

Thanks to all of you for taking the time to read and respond to my post. Lots to research and think about. I will say, at this point the CNCRP Pro6060/self-built controller is ahead of the Stinger II by a fair amount, probably for the same reason I built my LS3 powered, six speed 1968 Camaro rather than buy a new one - the building (problem solving and resulting learning) is part of the enjoyment.

[ger21]

The base Stinger II uses a router, so I’m assuming at least another $1,000 or more for a spindle/VFD that CAMaster would warranty.

Camaster uses HSD spindles, which are probably closer to $1500 or more?? Not sure what the warranty is.

I wasn’t sure what you meant by “you'll probably be limited by spindle power with the CNCRP machine.” Do you mean that the CNCRP machine will only accept a spindle of a limited size, or that the design won’t support spindle power beyond a certain point?

What I meant was that the 2.2Kw spindle will be the limiting factor in how fast you can cut.

Both UCCNC and EdingCNC look interesting. Both appear to go beyond 4 axes without breaking the bank and both offer hardware and software from one supplier. My concerns are how clear are the installation/use instructions and how robust is the online support community

EdingCNC is much more popular in Europe, and I don't really know of many people using it. When I was looking for an alternative to Mach, it was between EdingCNC and UCCNC, and I went with UCCNC for two reasons. One, because it's very easy to customize. And two, because it was considerably cheaper for the hardware features I wanted.
UCCNC has a pretty good forum, and very good support. It's also incredibly easy to setup and use. Just keep in mind that manuals do not teach you how to use a CNC machine.
From what I've heard, the Acorn may give the best motion of any of the low cost controllers. UCCNC is supposed to be getting a new trajectory planner next year, which will hopefully bring it up to the top level.

[wmgeorge]

Gerry forgot to tell you but I will, he is one heck of a good programmer and he knows his stuff!

[Teknic_Servo]

Hey guys,

I just came across this thread and wanted to clarify something to avoid confusion. There are several different models of ClearPath motors. While every model is a servo, if you want a step and direction input model that has a torque/speed curve similar to a stepper (as suggested by ger21), go with an SDSK (SK - Stepper Killer). If you want a step and direction model with the broader torque/speed curve common to servos (some reaching upwards of 6,000 RPM), an SDHP (HP - High Power) may be more appropriate.

In a machine (like this one - the Pro6060) where you're replacing steppers and are concerned if the mechanics can handle high power, go with the SDSK. That's one of the main reasons we created this model. Compared with the same size stepper, you'll still get about 3x the power, but most mechanics can handle this increase.

If you have any specific questions regarding these models, please feel free to contact us directly through [email protected].

Best regards,
Erik M. - Teknic Servo Systems Engineer

[mkelcy]

Gerry forgot to tell you but I will, he is one heck of a good programmer and he knows his stuff!

Oh, I know. I've been lurking on CNC boards for a little bit and, as with any other special interest internet forums, those that know are quickly revealed. Gerry knows.

[mkelcy]

Hey guys,

I just came across this thread and wanted to clarify something to avoid confusion. There are several different models of ClearPath motors. While every model is a servo, if you want a step and direction input model that has a torque/speed curve similar to a stepper (as suggested by ger21), go with an SDSK (SK - Stepper Killer). If you want a step and direction model with the broader torque/speed curve common to servos (some reaching upwards of 6,000 RPM), an SDHP (HP - High Power) may be more appropriate.

In a machine (like this one - the Pro6060) where you're replacing steppers and are concerned if the mechanics can handle high power, go with the SDSK. That's one of the main reasons we created this model. Compared with the same size stepper, you'll still get about 3x the power, but most mechanics can handle this increase.

If you have any specific questions regarding these models, please feel free to contact us directly through [email protected].

Best regards,
Erik M. - Teknic Servo Systems Engineer

Thanks for stepping in. I have spent a fair amount of time on your website, and knew about the SDSK series, which is what I'd use if I go with the Clearpath servos. My hope is that I'll settle on a plan, and then verify that my selections all work well together, with CNCRP probably being the first stop as their mechanics are the basis for the whole thing.

[mkelcy]

Quick update. Snowed in here, so I spent most of the day yesterday looking at UCCNC and its implementation in the UC300ETH board. It took me a while to track down where to find some of the hardware, but ultimately it looked like the best add-on for me would be the UB1 to avoid having to break out ribbon cable connections.

In the process of looking over the various UCCNC hardware options, and in looking at the various UCCNC and UB1 wiring, installation and setup materials, I realized that the documentation for the Centroid Acorn was head and shoulders above what I could find for UCCNC and the UC300ETH. From the Centroid motor specific wiring schematics, to the motor parameters built-in to CNC12, to the detailed instructions on how to hardware or software pair two motors for one axis, Centroid has really done their homework and provided a lot of tech information that is particularly helpful to the CNC newbie. My principal reason for looking at UCCNC would be to have a 5th software axis for a 4th axis drive when and if I went that route. Centroid can handle that if I hardware pair the two Y axis drives (with a loss of auto-squaring the gantry), perhaps not as elegantly as UCCNC, but I think I'll be many, many hours ahead and avoid a lot of frustration going with the Centroid system.

If this were my second build, I might think otherwise; but I’m not looking for degree of difficulty points right now.

So, Centroid Acorn, with the basic version of their software for now, pending seeing what they do with routers in future releases of CNC12 Pro. I think I might be interested in digitized probing down the road, and there’s no upgrade path from the CNC12 Pro to the Digitizing software, so no CNC12 Pro for now. (Centroid did say that the upgrade from CNC12 Mill Pro to CNC12 Router Pro would be free.)

Sent an email to CNCRP with my questions about the Pro6060, too soon to expect a response.

Assuming the CNCRP responses are positive, my thought is to order and build electronics and once that’s all bench tested and ready to go, order the CNCRP Pro6060. Any pitfalls in doing it that way?

[OlfCNC]

Quick update. Snowed in here, so I spent most of the day yesterday looking at UCCNC and its implementation in the UC300ETH board. It took me a while to track down where to find some of the hardware, but ultimately it looked like the best add-on for me would be the UB1 to avoid having to break out ribbon cable connections.

In the process of looking over the various UCCNC hardware options, and in looking at the various UCCNC and UB1 wiring, installation and setup materials, I realized that the documentation for the Centroid Acorn was head and shoulders above what I could find for UCCNC and the UC300ETH. From the Centroid motor specific wiring schematics, to the motor parameters built-in to CNC12, to the detailed instructions on how to hardware or software pair two motors for one axis, Centroid has really done their homework and provided a lot of tech information that is particularly helpful to the CNC newbie. My principal reason for looking at UCCNC would be to have a 5th software axis for a 4th axis drive when and if I went that route. Centroid can handle that if I hardware pair the two Y axis drives (with a loss of auto-squaring the gantry), perhaps not as elegantly as UCCNC, but I think I'll be many, many hours ahead and avoid a lot of frustration going with the Centroid system.

If this were my second build, I might think otherwise; but I’m not looking for degree of difficulty points right now.

So, Centroid Acorn, with the basic version of their software for now, pending seeing what they do with routers in future releases of CNC12 Pro. I think I might be interested in digitized probing down the road, and there’s no upgrade path from the CNC12 Pro to the Digitizing software, so no CNC12 Pro for now. (Centroid did say that the upgrade from CNC12 Mill Pro to CNC12 Router Pro would be free.)

Sent an email to CNCRP with my questions about the Pro6060, too soon to expect a response.

Assuming the CNCRP responses are positive, my thought is to order and build electronics and once that’s all bench tested and ready to go, order the CNCRP Pro6060. Any pitfalls in doing it that way?

You can also take a look at the new UCCNC motion controller the AXBB-E.
It is a controller for 4-axis but seems to be working upto 6-axis but you need to add a LPT port breakout board on it's extension port for the extra axis.
There is a complete example wiring diagram and example wiring part diagrams in the manual: http://cncdrive.com/downloads/AXBB_E_manual.pdf
I don't think that Centroid has any better documentation than this or that you need any better.
You can even get a free UCCNC software license key with the new controller now: AXBB-E ethernet motion controller and breakout board combo + free UCCNC license - CNCdrive - webshop

[GME]

Assuming the CNCRP responses are positive, my thought is to order and build electronics and once that’s all bench tested and ready to go, order the CNCRP Pro6060. Any pitfalls in doing it that way?

I built my electronics before ordering the machine kit. Doing so didn't cause me any issues/problems. Actually, it worked out fine. As soon as I got my machine built, I was able to start cutting.

At the end of the day, it really didn't matter whether I had the kit while I was building the electronics. The machine parts would have been setting around until I finished the electronics. Multitasking by building the machine and electronics simultaneously wouldn't have worked out well. Interrupting one task or the other would have broken continuity, which in turn, would have extended the total amount of time necessary for completing the overall project. (Now, where was I????). I don't believe it makes any real difference whether you do the mechanical first, or electronics first. I just wouldn't try dividing my time between the two.

Gary

[mkelcy]

You can also take a look at the new UCCNC motion controller the AXBB-E.
It is a controller for 4-axis but seems to be working upto 6-axis but you need to add a LPT port breakout board on it's extension port for the extra axis.
There is a complete example wiring diagram and example wiring part diagrams in the manual: http://cncdrive.com/downloads/AXBB_E_manual.pdf
I don't think that Centroid has any better documentation than this or that you need any better.
You can even get a free UCCNC software license key with the new controller now: AXBB-E ethernet motion controller and breakout board combo + free UCCNC license - CNCdrive - webshop

I actually saw the AXBB-E and looked at the installation instructions. That said, while you may not need any better documentation, I’ll take all the help I can get. I’m still trying to wrap my head around the terminology, software, hardware and electronics. Centroid, for example, has specific wiring diagrams (pin to pin) for about 30 drivers. The CNC12 software can initially populate all of the driver/motor details (for select drivers) simply by clicking on a radio button in the software. They have a 20 page detailed description of the various ways you can pair two axes for a dual drive axis and a description of the benefits of each method. The documentation is simply deep and extensive and clearly intended to answer questions before you have them. I’m in no way knocking UCCNC, I’m simply saying that for my needs more, and more detailed, directions are a good thing.

I built my electronics before ordering the machine kit. Doing so didn't cause me any issues/problems. Actually, it worked out fine. As soon as I got my machine built, I was able to start cutting.

At the end of the day, it really didn't matter whether I had the kit while I was building the electronics. The machine parts would have been setting around until I finished the electronics. Multitasking by building the machine and electronics simultaneously wouldn't have worked out well. Interrupting one task or the other would have broken continuity, which in turn, would have extended the total amount of time necessary for completing the overall project. (Now, where was I????). I don't believe it makes any real difference whether you do the mechanical first, or electronics first. I just wouldn't try dividing my time between the two.

Gary

Thanks for that. It made sense to me, but nice to have it confirmed.

[OlfCNC]

Well. wiring instructions for 30 drives?! All drives have optoisolator inputs, there is not even 30 possible variations of connections.
So documenting connection for 30 drives is a big redundancy in documentation which probably makes the documentation long with lots of parts useless for the avarage user and then too long to find things in it.
The documentation of the UCCNC is really more technical. it gives general diagrams which makes the documentation short but useful because all required information is still there to connect any type and kind of drives.
Exact connection information is probably the best for dummies, but with an avarage IQ which is required to build a machine or a controller or any technical things like a CNC machine I think anybody can put these things together from general info to exact info.
Yes you have to think a bit, but it does not hurt does it?

Dual drive: 2 pages for what? You just select the slave axis for the master axis in the UCCNC and that's all you need to do, you have dual/slaved axis. Maybe it is just overcomplicated in the Centroid if it needs 2 pages of documentation.
In the UCCNC everything is freely configurable you can put any axis or any signals to any pins so exact wiring is not the best, because the possible connection variations is about infinite.

What I wrote is only my 2 cents, please do not get offended by it. I know everybody is different and think different. This is how I see it. others might see it different.