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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > HURCO > Scary VM10U problems
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  1. #61

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    Re: Scary VM10U problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Green0 View Post
    Agreed it would be amazing to have the machine work. Its pretty stressful when they don't.
    I talked to a data recovery service that could 24hr service one for $2000-$3000.

    Right. That's not exactly how things gets quoted at the recovery process/service but I take it everybody needs to make a living.
    First-thing-first, see if you can find an electrical engineer locally to look at the chipsets/datasheet and diagnose what could have gone wrong. Most likely the firmware was corrupted and this can simply be re-flashed using a spi programmer. You are looking at 200~300 labor max (reasonably paid). All of my SSD failures (two only, mind you) were a re-flash case. e.g. copy the hex table from a good drive, then burn it over to the faulty one and whala. Which is most likely what that 24hrs service is all about (restoring large amount of data byte-by-byte takes a whole lot more than 24hrs ).

    Correct on the reliability of SSDs vs Discs. SSD needs a fairly stable power source to perform properly, slight fault in the power rail and bang goes the firmware (corruption, in most cases). Disc drives can't be used in a vibrating environment so good thing you've got rid of that.

    ps: your local mobile phone repair dude is able to carry out the 'diagnostic' part for you. He/she knows how to read mfg datasheets. Whether you let him/her do the repair is your call. There is a risk, obviously.

  2. #62
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    Re: Scary VM10U problems

    There should be a USB stick in the cabinet door pocket that can be booted to recover a saved image of the drive (if it was saved at the time of SSD replacement).

  3. #63
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    Re: Scary VM10U problems

    Unfortunately, all I can offer is sympathy... as you are no doubt (painfully) aware... this is ridiculous.

    Then a Hurco apps guy said that wouldn't work because the control is somehow serial linked to the hard drive
    And... they did that... why?!?! Oh, right - so they could make a couple of grand on a cheap commodity SSD.

  4. #64

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    Re: Scary VM10U problems

    Quote Originally Posted by __Britt View Post
    Unfortunately, all I can offer is sympathy... as you are no doubt (painfully) aware... this is ridiculous.

    And... they did that... why?!?! Oh, right - so they could make a couple of grand on a cheap commodity SSD.
    Could be. Although most likely an enforcement at the manufacturer end to ensure they are the one servicing and maintaining their product line, and not the user(s).
    Quality assurance (ironic) and making it hard for the 3rd party, kinda thing. The co I work for does the same with some of their proprietary products.

    Although SSD's S/N are rather easy to spoof at a binary level. 100% sure you've used "Binwalk" before, Britt

  5. #65
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    Re: Scary VM10U problems

    Quote Originally Posted by __Britt View Post
    Unfortunately, all I can offer is sympathy... as you are no doubt (painfully) aware... this is ridiculous.



    And... they did that... why?!?! Oh, right - so they could make a couple of grand on a cheap commodity SSD.
    Definitely it makes me think twice about all the unforeseen costs of not being a Fanuc based machine. Lower quality encoders, lower quality control hardware, lower quality components = higher maintenance cost. This would all seem reasonable if a VM10U was a cheap machine, but there are comparable Doosan Fanuc 5 axis machines which cost similar money. I'm pretty convinced that Hurco sees maintenance after the point of sale as a secondary marketplace where brands like Doosan almost act like service is something they are planning not to need and certainly not to make large profit on. I'm pretty sure this one Hurco has higher maintenance cost than the 6 Doosan machines on our floor put together.

    The military grade hardware feel of Fanuc is definitely a happy place for me. I've never had a single Fanuc component fail. I've lost 2 electrical cables (both on a Fanuc based machine from another brand -not Doosan), but they were aftermarket cables attached to Fanuc hardware- not actually Fanuc product. Both times we simply replaced the cables and got back to work. Easy troubleshooting because we confronted those issues from the perspective of, "It's probably anything BUT the Fanuc stuff that is faulty."

  6. #66
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    Re: Scary VM10U problems

    Hurco came out and re-imaged a drive for us, but couldn't generate a simultaneous 5 axis code for the machine so the machine is currently without that capability it formerly had. I run into this a lot- where industry software protection gets in the way of the customer and costs him time. We don't use it here, but it does represent some of the price of the machine we bought, so we need that re-connected. Our old drive was re-flashed and it was believed that could run, but when we swapped it to get the machine options back, it would boot but had errors not allowing it to run. So we swapped back to the aftermarket SSD missing that option for now. When we bought the Hurco there was a similar machine in the Doosan line (DNM 200/5AX) that was available in a cost reduced 3+2 model with larger 30 tool changer and 12,000RPM spindle for ballpark similar cost that we didn't buy because the Hurco was simultaneous 5 axis (probably a mistake I know).

    Mastercam for example, my mill turn seat will make me restart the program a couple times a day when it fails to see me as a licensed user even though my dongle never leaves my computer. So I get one chance to save my work and then it shuts down on me. That one costs a couple minutes a couple times a day, every day.

  7. #67
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    Re: Scary VM10U problems

    The 5 axis simultaneous option needs a written letter of assurance from the owner of the machine stating it won’t be used for certain types of manufacturing and that it won’t be exported to certain countries. You can easily get the option back by signing an agreement that this is the case. It’s not Hurco that require this but the US government.
    If you need to have two drives active on one machine, they have to be written on a PC with the base software before being set up on the machine with the USB dongle key in USB0 removed. That way, the options are written to the hard drives and will start up as normal when swapped out.
    When your new drive was written, the tech should have used the Ulti-image stick from the cabinet door pocket to make a copy image in the restore partition on the drive. If you get a failure, you can use the same stick to return your system to exactly as it was when he left it. All you’d need to do would be to request the option file from Hurco via email - normally within an hour.

  8. #68
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    Re: Scary VM10U problems

    Quote Originally Posted by bloke View Post
    The 5 axis simultaneous option needs a written letter of assurance from the owner of the machine stating it won’t be used for certain types of manufacturing and that it won’t be exported to certain countries. You can easily get the option back by signing an agreement that this is the case. It’s not Hurco that require this but the US government.
    If you need to have two drives active on one machine, they have to be written on a PC with the base software before being set up on the machine with the USB dongle key in USB0 removed. That way, the options are written to the hard drives and will start up as normal when swapped out.
    When your new drive was written, the tech should have used the Ulti-image stick from the cabinet door pocket to make a copy image in the restore partition on the drive. If you get a failure, you can use the same stick to return your system to exactly as it was when he left it. All you’d need to do would be to request the option file from Hurco via email - normally within an hour.
    We already had the option. So I don't see how them putting the machine back into that condition should require anything at all. I have signed similar stuff with Mazak. We do have an Itars permit ourselves. The issue was some administrative problem with Hurco that they couldn't resolve the hard drive swap on their broken hard drive without loss of the 5 axis simultaneous option. We're supposed to get a code but that hasn't yet happened.

    We don't have a backup drive, we only imaged the one replacement and the original drive remains un-functional.

  9. #69

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    Re: Scary VM10U problems

    That might come across as ignorant but what can you machine with simultaneous 5ax that is so forbidden that you can't machine today on any let's say mach3/4, linuxcnc or even a 6ax bot or 3D print for that same matter.
    Is that one of those 1981 era policy that got dragged for nearly 40+ years?! Worth sending a A3 size printed year 2020 Calendar to your Ministry of Commerce you think?

    Glad to hear your machine is getting near to making parts again

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