[fizzissist]

Ok, so we go to all electric vehicles. Take your car home and plug it in. Good deal, right?

But without the fuel taxes, where's the money for road repairs gonna come from? The money will come from higher taxes on kwh, which means your toast is going to skyrocket in price...all so you can drive cheaper.

In the end, there ain't no free lunch. Like my physics teacher in high school used to say..."You don't get something for nothing."

[sdantonio]

One major problem with this "green" job creation is that the transition isn't smooth. Painful would be more appropriate. People lose their jobs en masse first, and the creation of the new jobs isn't overnight.

There is another problem too. Spain recently did a huge green economy and jobs push. What they found is that the number of jobs per capita that Obama cites were initially created, but only 1 in 10 of those jobs were permanent, i.e. lasting more than 2 years.

[fizzissist]

Maybe we could create a whole new industry just rebuilding windmill generator gearboxes??...something that seldom gets mentioned....

For the new guys here, thought I'd post the link for Bob Carter's video on CO2 and AGW again.....since Australians are the subject on another thread, and, well, I just can't help myself...

http://video.google.com/videosearch?...um=4&ct=title#

[sdantonio]

Ok, so we go to all electric vehicles. Take your car home and plug it in. Good deal, right?

And when you go to get another car. Do you realize how much of an environmental hazard it is to get rid of those batteries.

[sdantonio]

I talked to a guy recently who was in the marketing department for GM (recently let go so he has no stake in the company any more).

Go got to test drive one of the hydrogen car prototypes for a few months. Said they were absolutely beautiful. But Obama, in his wisdom (probably in league with Gore... the guy who invented the internet and stole glaciers) decided the GM would screp the hydrogen car in favor of the electric jobs.

[fizzissist]

I fear that hydrogen is just a stop gap measure on the way to an electric car (...that said, I HATE electric cars. It just ain't right).

The hydrogen support infrastructure is expensive, the cost is up there with gasoline, and the hydrogen still costs CO2 to produce...so what's the gain? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for cleaner air (screw the CO2...it's the combustion byproducts that leave me gasping), but something tells me we'll just be spending money we don't need to on a technology that still needs years to refine to an economy-of-scale level.

Did I mention I HATE electric cars? I work with a guy who has a stable of 'em, from an MR2 that'll smoke 'vettes to a 9 passenger GM van. Regenerative braking and the whole 9 yards. (and a gas heater for winter...LOL!).. They are all very economical, quiet, perform very well....and won't go very far. But the real reason I can't get behind 'em is ....they're just weird. There's just no feedback. Can't feel it, can't hear it. It's just weird. But that's beside the point.

Hydrogen has got some problems yet to be solved, and I think it probably makes some sense for Obama to pull funding, but not all funding for it. That would be too short sighted.

But like you say, batteries are huge polluters too. From cradle to grave, batteries contribute a whole new set of problems for the environment. I've been following A123 and Altair Nano on their battery progress....and waiting for A123 to go public so I can get in on the IPO....then I'll go buy a new 'vette with my 'green' profits.

[amplexus]

Hey Mariss
Check out this paper petawatts of reachable energy, steam turbine technology, 24-7 availability and Jeffery Tester at MIT has a supersonic spallation flame cutter that can cut 100 ft of solid granite an hour. A cnc machine with one of those would be interesting, all joking aside, this fixes energy problems for thousands of years, no co2 drill holes, add water, get steam.

Amplexus

The Future of Geothermal Energy – Impact of Enhanced Geothermal Systems (EGS) on the United States in the 21st Century, Tester et. al.

[raynorj]

Hi
I believe that the sound scientific FACTS do not support significant, out of the ordinary (from a looooong time world history) global warming. In fact since 2002 the temperatures are actually cooling slightly.
For a start MOST (more than 80%) of the worlds BEST temperature weather recording locations which are in the US have temperature errors equating to ~+1 degree C.
The Sun would seem to be the most important act in our corner of the universe.
CO2 emmissions are peanuts compared to levels in the distant past and those high levels did not coincide with or cause periods of high temperatures.
KYOTO and Emmissions trading are creating big business and wheeler dealers are latching on in anticipation of money to be made. We the people will be taxed to pay for all and to achieve nothing for the planet. Global warming is big business creating 10s of thousands of jobs.
my penny worth
Ray
The IPCC and Gore are seriously incompetent.

[maz43]

The AGW cap and trade racket would make even Capone jealous......

[asuratman]

FYI, naturally (no technology involve) in tropical country, most of the time we can gather food crop such as rice (padi) twice a year. But this year they can gather 3 times, they have an additional short rainy season! This is good fenomena, right? I feel a longer rainy season, 7-8 month. Today, its still raining here, before (5-10 years ago), in May, its already dry season. What is this? Good or bad fenomena. Thanks.

[fizzissist]

3 harvests instead of 2??
This is a result of climate change you guys are going to fight against, right?

[asuratman]

Hi,
This one I got news from TV, that east Indonesia have a longer rainy season, so that they can harvest rice 3 times a year. This also what I feel in my home, now it is still rain, heavy. maybe cycle changes should be balance. In some area getting dry, then in other area getting wet, so does with temperature. I do not know, I am not environmentalist.

[asuratman]

Hi,
This one I got news from TV, that east Indonesia have a longer rainy season, so that they can harvest rice 3 times a year. This also what I feel in my home, now it is still rain, heavy. maybe cycle changes should be balance. In some area getting dry, then in other area getting wet, so does with temperature. I do not know, I am not environmentalist.

[One of Many]

Where as real Science leaves the discussion open to further study, While Politics jockies for position to control the discussion and direct their agenda.

Carbongate!

DC

[fizzissist]

I'd like to start a new poll...but I doubt any of the target people would participate...

How many politicians who voted FOR Waxman-Markey read the full 1400 page bill?

How many of them ready ANY of it? (beyond the title...that is)

[Michael4yah]

It's a well known fact that Politicians cant read... If they didnt read the Patriot Bill which essentially took away all of our Constitutional Rights then I doubt they read much of anything unless its the polls from their own constituency.

[sdantonio]

I'd like to start a new poll...but I doubt any of the target people would participate...

How many politicians who voted FOR Waxman-Markey read the full 1400 page bill?

How many of them ready ANY of it? (beyond the title...that is)

I can tell you for a fact, none of them read it. Most have admitted so. I have heard it said "if the people knew what the Republicans wanted to do they wouldn't understand it, if the people knew what the Democrats wanted to do they wouldn't allow it".

The Waxman-Markey bill was nothing more than a tax in disguise and a quid pro quo payoff to their supporters (goldman sachs, who along with enron developed the trading strategy for the carbon certificates and GE who developed the infrastructure to trade then on and is the single largest producer of windmills in the country). Ever wonder why the administration saved Goldman but allowed it's competition to die (it's not just because all the current heads of the Fed and Treasury were once corporate officers in Goldman... though that is part of it).

That's why things are getting pushed through without reading the bills at such a breakneck speed. Thank god Obama's popularity is fading so the process is getting slowed down.

I've had the chance to get to now the national health care bill also... be scared, be very scared.

[fizzissist]

Van Jones, the president's environmental advisor who just got sacked, has a most interesting history.

He was involved in STORM, an avowed communist, named his son Cabral in honor of a revolutionary Leninist, and appointed by Obama to serve as an ADVISOR????

The connection to me is clear. If you control power, you have power. That is, if you control energy, you have power over the people. Taxing people for the power they need is another way of controlling them, if you keep in mind that the power to tax is the power to destroy. Jones connection with Obama, and Obama's position on energy taxation makes me real nervous.

Imposing higher taxes on the power we need to create and manufacture means being less competitive with countries that subsidize their manufacturing with cheap (and I mean CHEAP, and often forced....see Laogai) labor and energy.

I remember losing a job on a run of 100,000 parts because I was high by $.017 per part. It was kind of a psychological blow because it was my first big job bid...but I understood what happened and why.

Now, I understand why adding $.017 in energy costs to a part could very well send that job to China. It's imperative that we pay what our energy costs.....not $.017 more....never mind a nickel.

[tobyaxis]

With what I have read and seen, we are entering a different Ice Age. This is what Scientists are saying any way.

Niagara Falls 1911

[Corvus corax]

Environmentalism in all its forms is nothing more than a facade for totalitarianism. The modern politic has found it all too easy to create mindless supplicants through the use of cute and fuzzy feel good fantasy. The Al Gores of the world are out there trying to look harmless and stupid while the average Joe just sits back and watches the show, satisfied with his ignorance, while they steal the future of his children away. The next few years will be telling. four years from now, we will either be a free people, living in a sovereign nation, or we will no longer be either of those things.

The whole Democrat VS. Republican argument is moot, a ridiculous passion play, to keep small minds occupied while they build the machine that will rule us all. Those who toil in its service do so in the hopes that they will be among the elite, allowed to suckle at its teat, while the beer swillers toil in eternal servitude. The United States was the last light of hope in this world. Once she is dead, and that will be quite soon… The new Dark Age will begin. No hope, no future, no escape. Welcome to the future, Slave.