[jshumer1]

Wacky weird:rainfro:

[NinerSevenTango]

Interesting thought about the aliens. Which brings to mind a few thoughts: We know that war is the health of the state. We know that the state needs to have a demonized enemy to rally the citizens to the cause. We know that after a time, the citizenry get tired of the same old enemy, especially after it becomes clear that overwhelming technology and force are being brought to bear against primitive societies without success, and especially once some images leak out of injustices happening, that re-humanizes the enemy.

Given the gullibility of the public, their need to be led, and the eagerness with which statists will fill this need, how hard would it be for them to invent some aliens? Just as with any mystical contraption, they could be suited to fit every need -- only appearing to important people, giving them a message on how to lead, etc. A few tantalizing clues as 'evidence', one or two terrible demonstrations of force, some video, plenty of alarm, and reassuring pronouncements from the leadership.

George Orwell would love the concept, I think.

Would it make a good movie? Will it be tried in real life?

Hehe.

--97T--

[rancherbill]

Would it make a good movie? Will it be tried in real life?

Hehe.

--97T--

97T

Aliens have already landed. Everybody thought it was a big joke not a threat! Remember Mork.

Nanu Nanu:cheers:

[jhowelb]

Interesting thought about the aliens. Which brings to mind a few thoughts: We know that war is the health of the state. We know that the state needs to have a demonized enemy to rally the citizens to the cause. We know that after a time, the citizenry get tired of the same old enemy, especially after it becomes clear that overwhelming technology and force are being brought to bear against primitive societies without success, and especially once some images leak out of injustices happening, that re-humanizes the enemy.

Given the gullibility of the public, their need to be led, and the eagerness with which statists will fill this need, how hard would it be for them to invent some aliens? Just as with any mystical contraption, they could be suited to fit every need -- only appearing to important people, giving them a message on how to lead, etc. A few tantalizing clues as 'evidence', one or two terrible demonstrations of force, some video, plenty of alarm, and reassuring pronouncements from the leadership.

George Orwell would love the concept, I think.

Would it make a good movie? Will it be tried in real life?

Hehe.

--97T--

Interesting scenario and there are those on the politico scene that I would not put it past them to try it. Probably have better success in getting the populace to believe in it that with the GW/CC fable.

But with GW you don't have to fake those messy hostile encounters, heck there isn't even any way for "Joe Sixpack" to confirm or deny existence of the phenomenon nor success or failure or "progress" in the effort to combat. Never any casualties to report, unless you count the $$$ taken from your daily budget and the life blood drained from the economy.

What a perfect scheme! If someone does happen to find a way to prove it ain't so they can just claim, "I thought it was real, my INTENTIONS were pure!"

[NinerSevenTango]

So true. Or maybe aliens are already here, and came up with the global warming scheme for us. After all, what could work better than a victim that can't tell her rescuers to get lost? What human could come up with such a brilliant theme?

Ever seen the excellent movie, "They Live"?

--97T--

[jhowelb]

Can't say that I have. Hollywierd has grown more and more repulsive with each new crop of trashy stars they choose to promote and the worse films they produce and the result has been that it's been years since I've seem the inside of a theater. Just have no interest. Limited TV use as well for the same reasons plus I resent being spoon fed politics in the guise of entertainment.

The real tragedy of all this falderal is that whatever is happening with the climate I do not believe that mankind can change it. Oil, it seems, will be a huge bone of contention in any case and the generally accepted course of action among those who want to "save us" will force the critical mass very much sooner. I see the potential for apocalyptic consequences spinning completely out of control.

I read the the US used 140 billion gallons of gasoline last year. The land won't produce that and feed us too! There is no alternative short of nuclear (good luck implementing that) so if there is any of them little green buggers about they better offer a good alternative energy source post haste! LOL

[MIKE JEFFERS]

Will it be tried in real life?

yup ,just look at religion

[fizzissist]

"The media reports repeatedly insist that there is a scientific consensus in favor of the Gore view of climate change.

However, for many of the world’s leading scientists in the fields of meteorology, climatology, physics, astrophysics, and related sciences, the science is far from settled, Al Gore’s media accolades notwithstanding. Over the past few years, more than 19,000 American scientists have signed a dissenting petition coauthored by Dr. Frederick Seitz, renowned physicist and former president of the National Academy of Sciences, and Dr. Arthur Robinson, president of the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine (www.oism.org/pproject). The petition urges political leaders to reject the Gore-supported Kyoto Protocol or other similar proposals that would mandate draconian tax and regulatory measures aimed at virtually all human economic activity.

Kyoto and similar proposals are not based on convincing scientific evidence, the petition claims, and “the proposed limits on greenhouse gases would harm the environment, hinder the advance of science and technology, and damage the health and welfare of mankind.”

The advocates of Kyoto and other schemes to super-regulate the planet frequently try to portray the scientists who dispute their claims of global warming peril as irrelevant fringies, fogies, and “nut cases” who shouldn’t be taken seriously. However, as brutal scientific facts have poked holes in their hypothetical global-warming models, the Gore camp has become more strident and abusive......."

"...The 1990 IPCC Summary, he notes, “completely ignored satellite data, since they showed no warming. The 1995 IPCC report was notorious for the significant alterations made to the text after it was approved by the scientists — in order to convey the impression of a human influence. The 2001 IPCC report claimed the twentieth century showed ‘unusual warming’ based on the now-discredited hockey stick graph...."

http://www.thenewamerican.com/node/7523#SlideFrame_1


There goes another beautiful theory about to be murdered by a brutal gang of facts.
— Duc de La Rochefoucauld
French writer and moralist (1613-1680)

[Rekd]

There is no alternative short of nuclear (good luck implementing that)

Not sure why. I don't recall any mishaps on any of the nuclear powered ships/subs we have.

[martinw]

There goes another beautiful theory about to be murdered by a brutal gang of facts.[/B]
— Duc de La Rochefoucauld
French writer and moralist (1613-1680)

Dear fizzissist,

Thank you for alerting me to the Duc.

Best wishes,
Martin

[fizzissist]

You guys are going to be hearing about the Wilkins Ice Shelf collapsing into a pool of super heated Antarctic sea....

What you won't see is a map of the volcanic activity of Antarctica and proximity to Wilkins, and the other ice shelves doomed from "global warming".

[fizzissist]

"Yet many claim the CO2 is the driver for any melting of the Antarctic ice sheet. I wonder how this will figure into that argument?

Larsen Ice Shelves A and B, by the way, sit astride a chain of volcanic vent islands known as the Seal Nunataks, which may figure into melting and breakups like this and this. (h/t Alan)

In fact, there are a LOT of volcanoes in Antarctica as you can see in this image. Notice that many are near the edge of the ice, and there are none in the interior, which may be a lack of discovery of ancient ice buried volcanoes. Most scientific bases are near the sea, rather than inland, for supply and weather tolerance purposes and there are many places in the interior that have yet to be fully explored."

http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com...antarctic-ice/


Map of volcanoes in Antarctica (note: the recent one near Pine Island isn't shown)
http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpre...volcanoes2.jpg

Temperature trends
http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpre...h1982-2004.jpg

Ice Trends
http://icecap.us/images/uploads/curr..._south0325.jpg

General Ice Stuff..
http://www.icecap.us/

[nine 16]

fizzissit, boy, I wish Sen. McCain would read this thread and give you a call. He seems to have allowed himself to be swayed by the 'consensus'. He has recently mentioned being interested in something like a 'follow-up to Kyoto.' I say yikes!

Unfortunately, I do not have too much hope. The government system, schools especially, have for decades created many who are now enamored of the idea that the "village" must have the final say in the disposition the wealth and property of individuals. Sovereignty of the person...how passe. Too many are looking for ways to be net tax receivers. And like I heard someone say, people just are not taught where economic babies come from.

I'm wandering off path.

Thanks for all your interesting posts, guys.
-Mark

[fizzissist]

McCain'll be 'round soon as he gets done with his RINO meeting.....he's probably telling Hillary what sniper fire REALLY feels like.

Back at the Antarctic.....

I know there's much confusion as to what ice shelf where is collapsing because the press never gives any clues. Just the pics of the drowning polar bear being crushed by the calving glacier. That in mind, I thought I'd post some maps so y'all can see the coincidence of location of glacier collapses relative to the volcanic areas. I'm not saying that volcanos are causing the glaciers to crumble.....BUT....when you look at circumpolar currents, the atmospheric temperature gradients, seasonal length, ice mass, and the raw energy needed to make a huge mass of ice melt...some things just don't add up real well.

Good map of Antarctica in general
http://www.gdargaud.net/Antarctica/M...tationsMap.gif

The Wilkins ice shelf is right near the "F" in Fossil Bluff, upper right, around 70deg W and 70deg S.

Images of Wilkins
http://www.eurekalert.org/multimedia...hp?from=111448

http://nsidc.org/data/iceshelves_images/images/wilk.jpg

Ice Shelves
http://nsidc.org/data/iceshelves_ima...ves_nogrid.png

Gee....you don't see many discussions of ice shelf stability or the 50-60yr natural cycle in the mainstream media do ya?

[Zumba]

I like global warming and global warming likes me!

[Protronie]

I have notice its been warmer...I think its called spring.
I'm sure it will be very warm around July & August.... followed by a cooling period.

[mike hide]

If Greenland and Antartica became icefree all the World's coastal cities would be under one or two hundred feet of seawater. I would say that should qualify as a change that is bad and spells doom for those cities.

My shop would also be under the same depth of water and I can assure you I would consider that bad and it would spell doom to my business.

when the vikings discovered Greenland it was green thats why they called it Greenland and as far as i know there was no significant rise in the sea level.

[Geof]

when the vikings discovered Greenland it was green thats why they called it Greenland and as far as i know there was no significant rise in the sea level.

The Greenland Icecap has been intact for hundreds of thousands of years, it was there when the Vikings were there.

According to some of the books I have read about the Viking colonies in Iceland and Greenland the name was something of a marketing ploy, it certainly did not mean the whole island was green. At the time of these settlements the world was just coming out of the Medieval Warm Period and coastal valleys in some places did have a mild enough climate that cattle farming was possible; archeological remains have been found. The Greenland colonies died out a few hundred years later during the Little Ice Age.

[Mike Stevenson]

Gentlemen you are talking about the EARTH. It's not going anywhere....WE are.

[fizzissist]

Gentlemen you are talking about the EARTH. It's not going anywhere....WE are.

Oh yes it is! In fact, it's haulin' ass!!
...We're just along for the ride.