[bcnc]

Long story short, Spindle wouldnt work called Syil sent me new boards except one in the back cover and new spindle motor. Installed everything still does not work? :withstupi WTF! Anyone experience anything like this or am I a doffus? thanks in advance Brian

[askman]

if everything is free, sounds like wiring issues. (or possibly motor)

[n0f8r]

Does your front control panel respond the way you expect?

My spindle would not start either - switching on the machine would illuminate the front panel display - but the start button on the front panel would not do anything - in manual or CNC mode.

Thankfully Richard (of Syil America) was visiting the UK (checking out the UK franchaise) shortly after I purchased my machine and was able to fix it on site. There are some spacing screws behind the front panel that needed adjusting to ensure the buttons will make contact.

Not sure what I would have done if Richard wasn't here - if this sounds like your problem then contact him for the details.

regards,
Kevin.

[syil]

Long story short, Spindle wouldnt work called Syil sent me new boards except one in the back cover and new spindle motor. Installed everything still does not work? :withstupi WTF! Anyone experience anything like this or am I a doffus? thanks in advance Brian

is it new edtion of sieg control board? or old edition?
China.Syil

[n0f8r]

I experienced the same problem again intermittently after Richard's adjustment, and finally disassembled the front panel myself.

What I found was that the digital height gauge bar (see arrowed attached pic) which has a black matte front is bare alumunium at the back.

This bare aluminium back faces directly onto exposed soldering pins on the control circuit board which I believes allows the possibility for short circuiting the controls, causing unpredictable behaviour.

I put electrical insulation tape over the exposed pins (see attached pic) where they might come in contact with the bare aluminium back of the gauge bar and re-assembled and now my spindle starts every time (so far).

Of course it could also be that it works now because I ended up fiddling with the spacing pins again... whatever, Syil, you need to test your machines before you ship them, I don't think anyone will object if you add a little to the cost - especially if you advertise the fact that the machine has been factory tested.

Otherwise I am very happy with my machine so far.

regards,
Kevin.

[syil]

this is a design fault by sieg X3, the ruler very easliy to touch the electonic board.we still not receive sieg regards this problem issue explain.
we suggest them adjust casting of mould to increase space.or reduce ruler size..
but frankly to say we not suggest customers use this rulers.not precision
we are carry carefully inspection after syil america visit.in next shipment,and future machines we will have more ducoments and CDs regards muanul and quickly problem answers.

Syil china.

[Chrisjh]

Thanks Kevin.

This would explain the large number of failures that I have personally seen where the keypad front panel board suffers a catestrophic failure near one of the optocouplers. I have seen 3 so far which I couldn't see a reason for the failure. When this failure occurs it also destroys the 7806 voltage regulator on the main spindle board and also the electronic feedback/positional sensor on the spindle motor itself rendering the motor useless.

By sheer luck my Syil X3 has not suffered from this problem yet and I will be checking ASAP the clearance between the rule and keypad (front panel) board. If I cannot see an easy way to increase the clearance to prevent shorting, I will remove the rule totally from the machine. I don't use the digital readout anyway as I use my machine exclusively as a CNC machine always under computer control so I know where the Z axis is at all times.

My machine did suffer a main spindle motor driver board failure after less than 1 hour from new which I was able to repair myself. My spindle drive board problem involved the failure of the switching chip (with the part number pathetically scratched off it) that generates most of the power rails used in the machine. After 2 weeks of trawling the net I managed to identify the chip and replace it. This fixed the problem. So far I have been able to get 3 spindle drive and front panel keypad boards repaired and tested using my machine but so far I have not been able to get failed motors operational again due mainly to lack of time. It would be much easier if Seig published schematics (circuit diagrams) but this is wishful thinking.

I have been involved also with the "new" digital set of boards offered as replacements for failed boards but I personally do not like the way that the spindle motor comes up to speed. It is far too slow!! You could be well into a cut before the motor attained the speed set in your program. Another thing to note with the "new" digital boards is that all boards must be replaced as a set as there no backwards compatibility with the original set of boards at all.

Regards and thanks for pointing out the clearance problem. I really appreciate this.

Chrisjh in Australia

[syil]

your machine was frist edition of G control board and PC interface.
right now in our new PC interface board have been include charge pump,also can be plug on power connect.

also,Syil australia shipment total old sieg mainboard.right now total new edition too. i think your receiced our new electonics from frans,right?

Syil china
xushuo

[Syil_Australia]

xushuo.

Chrisjh bought his X3 from us. Chris is very knowledgeable with electronics and has helped us and clients fixed the problems of the boards.. New & Old Edition boards.

With the New edition boards the spindle is somewhat too slow to start and that cannot be altered. To eliminate the chance of the spindle engaging before speed is reached it is best to increase the DWELL timing in Mach3 . This will start the spindle before doing any XYZ moves.

Another issue with the new boards is that the spindle display is not correct if you have the Syil Spindle Speed Upgrade unlike on the Old edition boards.

I think Syil need to remove the Ruler as part of the quality control as the ruler has been the cause of most problems. Would recommend to anyone with an X3 to remove the ruler.. don't need it anyway.

cheers

[ZipSnipe]

Sounds like the Super X3 ain,t so super probably better off with the original X3 ...Right?

[david_geng]

After 2 weeks of trawling the net I managed to identify the chip and replace it. This fixed the problem.

Chrisjh in Australia

what's the part number of this chip? thx

[Chrisjh]

Hi David,

The Dual In Line 7 pin chip is a TNY264P from Power Integrations, Inc.

I bought mine from Farnell in Aus so you should be able to source from Newark in USA. Newark Part No is 93K0737.

Symptoms when this chip fails are a dead front panel display caused by no voltage out on the pin marked 5V on the connector on the bottom of the main spindle drive board. Although this is marked 5V on the silkscreen on the board, it should be 6V as it comes directly from the 7806 TO220 regulator.

Be careful however because I have seen several dead spindle situations caused by the sliding part of the depth vernier shorting out on the front panel keypad board. When this happens a catestrophic failure of the mill generally results. The short takes out the 7806 regulator on the spindle drive board, an optocoupler (and often tracks and resistors) on the keypad board , and blows the hall effect devices in the spindle motor itself. I have yet to identify the hall effect devices but have purchased some generic devices from Farnell to try to repair a couple of blown spindle motors.

I have successfully repaired 3 blown keypad boards and 3 spindle drive boards so far and am trying to repair 2 spindle motors when I have some time (maybe this week with any luck).

Have a look at the instructions that I posted this week on this forum for modifying the keypad board to give an additional 2mm of clearance between the vernier and the board. I have done this mod to my machine and I am now confident that mine will not short out now.

Lots of luck and if you need help do not hesitate to post again. I am only too happy to assist if I can.

Regards

Chrisjh

[Simonetz Tamás]

Hi Chrisjh!



I’m writing from Hungary.
I have one old (6monts) sx3 machine and it works well.

I ordered 4 other machines from China, and they are arrived lost week, but I have a problem with them.

Everything’s ok except the spindle control.

I try to describe the problem:

If I program M3 S500, than the spindle start to rotates but doesn’t stop at 500rpm. No reaction for M4, only when I start with this code. No reaction for M5 in anytime. I couldn’t stop the spindle with Reset button in Mach3. ????? I use Mach3 1.84

I don’t understand. All of machines do the same, but the old one.

I see, China changed the spindle control and the driver board for a new one. Rev1.4 and XMT Driver1000.

I think that’s going to be a problem. Have you ever meet with the same problem? Did you see machines with this new control boards? Any ideas?


Thank you!

Tamás

[Chrisjh]

Hi Tamás,

Does the machine spindle work OK with manual front panel control? That is, when the front panel toggle switch is in the upper position.

If your new machine are fitted with the later spindle control boards, check that the small piggyback board fitted to the main spindle drive board (the large board in the back of the machine) has not come loose from its sockets during transport.

I have already fixed one machine with this problem. All you need to do is carefully push the piggyback board back into its sockets. This piggyback board is the one with the microcontroller chip installed.

Let me know when you have checked the security of these boards and if it has any effect on your problem. I would find it difficult to believe that 4 machines would all have the same problem unless it is software related.

Regards

Chrisjh

[Simonetz Tamás]

Hi Chrisjh!

The machine works well if I control by the manual front panel.
But the old story when you set the switch at the upper position, than you press start and the panel indicated the 80 rpm (to show it’s ready to control by mach3), so it’s disappeared.
Small piggyback board ok. Every wire checked. I checked everything. Table works well. Only the spindle. The spindle do simply moves, it must rotate on the right speed only, but it doesn’t. (
I try Syilamerica, Syichina mach3setup files but control still the same bad.
Any else idea?

Thank you: Tamás
.

[ddexd]

Chrisjh I sure could use your help.

I need help with a problem with my SX3. When I turn the power on to the mill the green power indicator light comes on, the spindle speed LCD display blue back light comes on, but there is no indication on the display. I mean nothing on the display.

Also, if I try to start the spindle motor by hitting the start button, nothing happens. It is as if the machine is dead.

The model number on the motor controller is: FC1000WJYA(6.2) with a manufacture date of 2006.07.25.

Things I have checked are:
1) 20 amp fuse on AC power line is good.
2) 20 amp fuse on motor controller is good.
3) checked for loose connections and everything is tight.
4) looked for burn spots or burned up components on the PCB and none were found.
5) 8 wire connector at the bottom of the board has the following voltage readings.

S1 K3 K4 +5V GND SA SB SC
83Vdc 80Vdc 80Vdc 6Vdc 0Vdc 0Vdc 6Vdc 0Vdc

Kind of odd to see 6 Vdc on a connection labeled +5V but I traced it down to an LM7806 (6 volt regulator) and the PCB is stenciled 7806 next to the part.

6) The connector on the right hand side of the PCB where the 120 Vac comes in has the following readings

L1 N1 FG U V W
125Vac 0Vac 0Vac 14.8Vac 14.8 Vac 14.8Vac

7) Checked the wiring harness for continuity from motor controller to push button PCB located on the front of the machine. Wiring harness checked out with no shorts.

8) Checked the tapping button electrical switch for shorts or grounds. None found.

I would appreciate any help in getting the mill back up and running.

Thanks,
ddexd

[neilw20]

Hi David,

The Dual In Line 7 pin chip is a TNY264P from Power Integrations, Inc.

I bought mine from Farnell in Aus so you should be able to source from Newark in USA. Newark Part No is 93K0737.

Symptoms when this chip fails are a dead front panel display caused by no voltage out on the pin marked 5V on the connector on the bottom of the main spindle drive board. Although this is marked 5V on the silkscreen on the board, it should be 6V as it comes directly from the 7806 TO220 regulator.

Be careful however because I have seen several dead spindle situations caused by the sliding part of the depth vernier shorting out on the front panel keypad board. When this happens a catestrophic failure of the mill generally results. The short takes out the 7806 regulator on the spindle drive board, an optocoupler (and often tracks and resistors) on the keypad board , and blows the hall effect devices in the spindle motor itself. I have
yet to identify the hall effect devices but have purchased some generic devices from Farnell to try to repair a couple of blown spindle motors.

I have successfully repaired 3 blown keypad boards and 3 spindle drive boards so far and am trying to repair 2 spindle motors when I have some time (maybe this week with any luck).

Have a look at the instructions that I posted this week on this forum for modifying the keypad board to give an additional 2mm of clearance between the vernier and the board. I have done this mod to my machine and I am now confident that mine will not short out now.

Lots of luck and if you need help do not hesitate to post again. I am only too happy to assist if I can.

Regards

Chrisjh

Allegro A3141 hall sensors work OK. You have to grind the corners of the sensors to fit the slots in the end of the motor though.
They are the correct sensors to use with the GROUND OFF Motorola Chipset. Do they think we all stupid? What is there to steal (from China!)?
The new motor board looks like a home grown version of Motorola Chipset.
CAN'T be as good as the proven MC3303X series. Same hall sensors work with new board, but reliability not known due their homegrown Atmel CPU BLDC controller.


Neil

errata:
About the stealing bit. It's not us. It's to protect them from internal theft. Sorry. I stupid.

[neilw20]

ddexd.

The small cable plugged in next to the green connector that goes to the hall sensors is the one that goes to the front panel (or daisy chained via the CNC interface if fitted)

I have not measured what is on S1,S2 and K3. Can someone confirm these measurements?

Because you have SA,SB,SC = 0v,6v,0v the hall sensors are probably OK.
Rotating the spindle by hand should make SA,SB,SC go 0v-6v sequentially.

Of SA,SB & SC. at any one time at least 1 be at 0v and at least one will be at at 6v. Never all at 6v, and never all at 0v. If this is the case the hall sensors are OK.

[ddexd]

neilw20, thanks for the help.

Just in case the hall sensors are out I went ahead and ordered a few from Digikey. By the way the Allegro A3141 hall sensors have been replaced with an updated model Allegro A1101.

I traced S1 down and it goes to the tapping switch. Connections K3 & K4 are wired to the ESTOP button and the chip guard door. The two switches appear to be wired in series.

The small pink colored connector is wired to the control panel mounted on the front of the mill.

I've attached a couple of photos of the connector and the pin labels. The first 3-photos are of the control panel and the last is of the motor PCB.

I also put in a call to Grizzly tech support and I was promised that one of their electrical support folks would be calling me back within 24hours.

[neilw20]

PM me if you want to know the 3 black linished IC's