[LenMcC]

i voted no, as in the shop should supply consumables, but then again, it's a situational thing. this particular shop probably had problems with a few irresponsible machinists tearing up/loosing/stealing these items. so maybe they figured the problem would solve itself if they took $X from the consumable tooling budget and distributed it appropriately into machinists pay. then, if they're smoking tools, they're smoking their own money. take care of the tools and they save their money. you gotta look at both sides of the coin before jumping this company.

also: i worked at a company where the company provided the tools. everything. the workers would get so frustrated with everyone else on other shifts (it's always the other shift, right?)trashing/losing/stealing tools that they were happy to spend their own money so they had what they needed when they needed it and in good condition. maybe this company got sick of hearing the fights between machinists.

[ImanCarrot]

the workers would get so frustrated with everyone else on other shifts (it's always the other shift, right?)trashing/losing/stealing tools

There is nothing more annoying than when people steal my tools- and let's face it, it IS stealing even when they think they're "borrowing" them.

I've spent years building up my personal collection of vital tools- the problem of people nicking my multimeters, verniers, allan keys etc etc got so bad that I stuck a lock on my lab doors- only me and the MD have the key and the place is LOCKED whenever I'm not there. Job done.

[Team Pierson]

This post reminds me of a story. A neighbor in the business park I used to work at treated his employees terribly. He sure knew what he was looking for when he hired them because he played mind games and had them scared to quit or stand up to him. He told them they were nothing and would never be able to find a job that paid as well as theirs did. One day I went over there to visit during a break and one guy was really pissed and going on and on about the boss. I told him that no self respecting man should let someone treat him the way he was being treated. The guy then picked up a $50 carbide endmill, held it up to me and dropped it on the floor, shattering it into a million pieces. "There, now I feel better", he said.

I don't know about you, but if he had to buy his own tools, he'd never have done that. Then again there's plenty of things that he shouldn't have been doing... like WORKING AT THAT JOB IN THE FIRST PLACE!

[WA Toolman]

Roadrunners post and reading through this thread reminded me of whn I irst moved to Oregon from California (late 60's) Many of the shops were spun off from maintenance depts of lumber companies. Owned/operated by Investor types who were completely clueless. "WHAT! YOU DON'T HAVE YOUR OWN ENDMILLS??? I THOUGHT YOU SAID YOU WERE A MACHINIST!!. They were thinking in terms of constuction where the worker brings his own hammer and handsaw.
Other observations back then: Twelve year olds running turret lathes. When the Feds made them pass child labor laws in the mid 70's, there was great cry that it would bankrupt the state.
I have accepted having my own set of drills and taps then some companies would then try to take them when I left. Also had issues with my personal tools when the IRS padlocked a shop once. Agent accepted my paycheck in the top drawer as proof it was my toolbox. Carried it out with automatic weapons watching me.
The most memorable was in the mid 1980's when the company I was at issued everybody one share of stock in the corporation. "You are all owners now" Kewl. A few months later, they came around and announced that since we were all owners, we would have to work for six weeks without pay to get the companies capitalization up. I overheard one of the office people telling another "That doesn't apply to us, we're salaried" I promptly quit. Unemployment denied for eight weeks because I quit.
Found a better job the following Monday.

[307startup]

Maybe I'm the vengeful sort, but if a company considered it a condition of employment that I work "free" overtime or to "capitalize" the company because I own a share, or to supply "expendables" that put money in their pocket over & above my own wages...I'd be sorely tempted to set fire to the building...with the brain-dead management still inside it.
That sort of treatment is a brand of evil peculiar to those inured to it. As arson would be to a normal person. But to justify the evil because it has been done here or there or just is accepted practice is to become evil oneself. And I do mean EVIL. As in COMMUNISM and the MANY over the individual. Anytime someone tells you that YOU don't matter, so long as there are others, that person is divorcing themselves from the social contract and deserves to be culled from the herd as they would be in NATURE. We are animals. Refuse to use logic and you are no better than any other animal. At least my dog is loyal. People who behave the ways that I have read about understand nothing about being human. If a behavior is tolerated, you are giving permission for it to continue. If you punish bad behavior harshly, you are setting boundaries. Too many people in this life think live and let live means let ME live and make mistakes and meddle in your affairs...and YOU let me do it and live with the consequences. The longer I'm alive, the more I fear for the world my children will inherit.

[cheetahcnc]

The tooling should be billed in as part of the job. If the shop does make you pay, at least save all your receipts for a tax write-off - at least here in the USA. The tooling would fall under un-reimbursed job related expenses, but I'm no accountant, just have my eyes peeled for write-offs!

Jim

[slashmaster]

To anyone who has to pay for tools like this but isn't going to get paid any more money for doing the job faster or better I've got 2 words for you. Fisher Price.

[Boots]

Next thing ya know one of the questions on the application will be "How many CNC machines do you own that you can bring into the shop?" The only thing they can require of the Machinist is to have their own Hand and measuring tools. Some Companies like General Electric won't even allow you to have your own measuring tools. You have to use theirs because they are regularly calibrated.

[ImanCarrot]

Next thing ya know one of the questions on the application will be "How many CNC machines do you own that you can bring into the shop

Shortly followed by; "You have to supply your own electricity. And since they're your machines, you better take out liability insurance in case you kill yourself or someone else. Oh, and since they're not our machinery, we don't see why we should provide building security or fire protection. Come to think of it, since your machine is taking up our floor space we think you should rent the premises from us".

[One of Many]

The whole scheme has its inefficient cost effectiveness built in. Lets say the operator doesn't own the as planned 3/4" carbide corn cob cutter and cannot afford one due to the last months $400 cutter tab due to the hard material jobs coming in, but only has one 1/2" to do the current work. The quote killer lurks around every corner in that kind of environment.

This sounds like one of the first shops I worked for many years ago that offered payroll deductions for required tools. The a-hole owner got really po'd when I kept the original receipt for the tools and just wrote them a check in the company name. That slimey b-tard was using payroll deduction tooling expenses as his write offs too.

Pretty much the same type of employer that Team Pierson describes. The daily taunts were about how the guy OWNED or could BUY all of us. Net Worth and the same verbal intimidation that none of us would be employed elsewhere, were common weapons.

Closing that door behind me when I quit was the best feeling I ever had! I still have the first USED Machinist tool box I bought when I started there. I use it for junk tools in my garage now. Periodically, the echos of that evil prick screaming still ring out when I open the draws.....but I got the last laugh at greedy user scum like that.

After many years of night school to earn my electronics certification I tried the career change. Only to find the entry level dismal. One interview went nearly as you desrcibe Iman. Bring in your own test equipment with a starting wage of half to a third what a machinist makes. And oh, btw, pay your own insurance with half of your wages. NO THANKS, I've worked for scum like you before. LOL!


DC

[posix]

I'd say that if a tool breaks, either because of crashing, dropping or whatever, the programmer/machinist should pay for it. If it's dull then the company should pay for it. Company can build a proportion of the price for a new sharp tool into the quote they give to customers. Chip load is good for calculating that. End of story.

You simply cannot rely on staff to take care of consumables as some people take home even toilet paper rolls, soap, silly things like that.

I know of a hospital that saved MILLIONS annually after they looked into their (unmonitored and unchecked) paper roll consumption figures. Before they'd go through a pack of 20 rolls in minutes. Not because the toilets were full but because nurses would pack a roll each. Now they apportion based on patient and staff numbers. You'd never steal a paper roll, but some people simply do.

I've been to numerous owner operated machine shops and funny how they never break tools, how everything is cleaned regularly (some spend more time air blasting their lathe then doing actual work), how each tool has it's place on a shelf etc etc. And I've been to large shops where they lock up a sigle box of small hazet ratchets because the other 19 had misteriously gone "missing", everyone has one "universal" philips screwdriver (that invariably ruins posidrive heads) and people point fingers at eachother.

Just my 2p.

[scadvice]

Voted No. I once advertised for a Journeyman Machinest and hired this guy who claimed he was. In the 3 days he was there, he broke about a dozen tools... so I fired him for lying on his application... that he was a Journeyman Machinest that is. A real machinest will almost never break a tool. I do recall breaking one once, about 5 years back...did a "stupid" on a tool height offset...(chair)
Steve

[tobyaxis]

NO!!!

A machinist is only required to have the Basic Inspection and Layout Instruments along with Basic Hand Tools to perform their job, nothing more.

Any Shop Supervisor or Shop Owner that tells you otherwise is trying to take advantage of you. Do Not Fall Victim to these Tactics.

[ryanschmidt224]

my shop rate is $75/hr we usually run around $100/hr thats because we use good

tooling, and have tons of it. If you spend 1hr trying to get a job done with cheap tooling

that you could have done in 15 min you just wasted $50... math says buy good tooling

quit wasting time with cheap ineffective tooling. I'll blow through $200 of tooling in a

couple days but made $2000 in the process. So going back to the idea of buying your

own tooling if i'm making hourly wages and I don't like the job, ill take a $20 cutter and

spend 3 weeks on a 2 day job

[MyMatthew]

I want the best tools so I can do the best job. I cannot be the best machinist with anything less. So I buy my own. When I leave, they come with me. A good tool can save too much time to risk the owner "shopping around" and buying an "equivalent"

I don't break tools anymore, I have more respect for them knowing what it would cost me to replace. I have seen guys ruin tools and just laugh because they don't have to pay for it...

If I was a beginner and had no tools, I would probably be on the fence. But once your good and have tooling set, replacing them because they wear out becomes a pride thing and not an "oh crap" thing....

[Monkey_Nuts]

No way would I buy my own cutters

[H.A.S.]

I wish it was a joke. I'll kid around a lil sometimes in posts, and I enjoy a good laugh, but I don't post shens.

I'm not buying anything for this shop. I was told during interview I'd have insurance after 30 days... after 30 days I was told no, there's no insurance until after 90 days and no holiday pay either.

Thanks for the link, I'm checking it out now

I've had some shops lie to me like that. One co. changed insurance 4 times in one year. Kept telling us they had found a better deal, yadayada...

I have my own small shop now, but after 40 yrs. of working for the Man, I never had to buy all the consumables, just to do my job. That's insane. Besides, it is all a write-off for the companies. They claim all that on taxes.

One co. I worked for, the boring bars alone cost thousands of dollars, with the inserts of course. At the beginning of NC, CNC use; some of the programmers were less than efficient at writing code, saw several operators trash very expensive, large endmills. They'd forget where to put the decimals.(chair)

As a Toolmaker/Millwright/Machinist, I thought of that as 'job security'.

If I were you, I'd tell them to shove it. Good luck finding the right Company!

[H.A.S.]

I want the best tools so I can do the best job. I cannot be the best machinist with anything less. So I buy my own. When I leave, they come with me. A good tool can save too much time to risk the owner "shopping around" and buying an "equivalent"

I don't break tools anymore, I have more respect for them knowing what it would cost me to replace. I have seen guys ruin tools and just laugh because they don't have to pay for it...

If I was a beginner and had no tools, I would probably be on the fence. But once your good and have tooling set, replacing them because they wear out becomes a pride thing and not an "oh crap" thing....

Oh yeah, I've seen them trash co. tooling and laugh about it. Never liked guys like that. To treat another man's tooling like that, means they have no self respect, either. Dangerous to work around dip****s like that.

[cncDecoder]

No way should a machinist have to pay for cutting tools!(nuts)
Tooling should be part of the companies charge-out rate.
Machinist are not paid enough to be buying their own cutting tools, decent tooling cost heaps!
I would never work for a company that required me to buy my own cutting tools, I do have my own dial-gauges and measuring equipment, but not cutting tools!

[rocketflier]

Now I'm curious about what happened to Roadrunner. Last post was 2007, last login 2008.