[Belnald]

I am fairly new to CNC Routers. So these questions are basic(ish).
What I have for a CNC machine.
1. Very generic small China CNC machine. The decal shows Eagle II. The spindle drive is 200v and 1.5kw. There is no documentation or manuals with any of it. I got it 2nd-3rd hand, but still new in box for $800.00. Not bad for a beginner machine, I think.
2. I changed the control interface from pendant based to PC based so I can use Vectric and Mach4 software. This part works very well.
3. The machine works well, but as I got more familiar with it I found it a bit lacking.

Thinking that I may not be using it right I started looking into its functioning. What I found is that no matter how I saved the Vectric files, they only set the spindle RPM to 2000 RPM. Much of the info I have found says that the spindle speed can and should be different depending on the bit, cut speed (inches per minute) cut depth etc..
I have found how to change that in the G Code file, I am working on changing it in the Vectric program. But I do not know what the allowable speeds for the spindle motor can be, or should be. IE minimum speed, maximum speed, best speed etc. With no documents or manuals for the spindle motor, I am guessing at the allowable spindle speeds. Rather than over speed or or under speed the spindle (which will most likely ruin the motor), I am looking for how to determine the allowable spindle speeds without bricking the motor.

So, any suggestions on how I determine the allowable spindle speeds for this motor? From manuals or similar machine, or experience.
Also, how to tell if I am over speeding the motor. By how it sounds, or looks etc..

[mactec54]

I am fairly new to CNC Routers. So these questions are basic(ish).
What I have for a CNC machine.
1. Very generic small China CNC machine. The decal shows Eagle II. The spindle drive is 200v and 1.5kw. There is no documentation or manuals with any of it. I got it 2nd-3rd hand, but still new in box for $800.00. Not bad for a beginner machine, I think.
2. I changed the control interface from pendant based to PC based so I can use Vectric and Mach4 software. This part works very well.
3. The machine works well, but as I got more familiar with it I found it a bit lacking.

Thinking that I may not be using it right I started looking into its functioning. What I found is that no matter how I saved the Vectric files, they only set the spindle RPM to 2000 RPM. Much of the info I have found says that the spindle speed can and should be different depending on the bit, cut speed (inches per minute) cut depth etc..
I have found how to change that in the G Code file, I am working on changing it in the Vectric program. But I do not know what the allowable speeds for the spindle motor can be, or should be. IE minimum speed, maximum speed, best speed etc. With no documents or manuals for the spindle motor, I am guessing at the allowable spindle speeds. Rather than over speed or or under speed the spindle (which will most likely ruin the motor), I am looking for how to determine the allowable spindle speeds without bricking the motor.

So, any suggestions on how I determine the allowable spindle speeds for this motor? From manuals or similar machine, or experience.
Also, how to tell if I am over speeding the motor. By how it sounds, or looks etc..

So usually on the body of the spindle there will be some spec's

1.5Kw we know

voltage= 220 this would be normal
Amps= around 5
Hz= 400 is normal

So take a good look at your spindle and see what you have

What is the VF Drive???

Is your spindle Air cooled or water cooled ????

The speed you choose/set in the Software you are using

These spindles can not run at 2000 RPM or you will damage them so the VFD Drive is also not set correct if it can run that slow the minimum speed if you have a normal AC 3ph spindle water cooled is 6,000 RPM

You can not over speed the motor going too slow will do it more damage

So what is the spindle you have even post some photos that will tell me what you have if you can't find any spec's on the body

[Belnald]

The spindle information is VERY lightly etched into the casing. this explains how I missed it before.

The spindle is air cooled.

Spindle motor info:
Redsail Tech
SK65-0.8F-24K 65x185
220V 800W 4A
400Hz 24000rpm

VFD Xinfutai
mod# FT-C001521KD
200v 1.5kw

I have tried setting the spindle speed at several values from 1000 to 13000 in the VCarve program, but it always outputs a value of 2000. no matter what...so far. I realize that that is a software issue.

Thanks

[mactec54]

The spindle information is VERY lightly etched into the casing. this explains how I missed it before.

The spindle is air cooled.

Spindle motor info:
Redsail Tech
SK65-0.8F-24K 65x185
220V 800W 4A
400Hz 24000rpm

VFD Xinfutai
mod# FT-C001521KD
200v 1.5kw

I have tried setting the spindle speed at several values from 1000 to 13000 in the VCarve program, but it always outputs a value of 2000. no matter what...so far. I realize that that is a software issue.

Thanks

If you can not correct in Vcarve which I'm sure it can be, you will have to edit the code so you don't fry your spindle

You will over heat the spindle unless you get your speed setting corrected 8000RPM is probably around the minimum for your air cooled spindle this also tells me that the VFD Drive is also incorrectly set if it is set correct it won't run below the minimum set frequency in the VFD Drive

[Belnald]

Good Info. I am working on retuning the CNC spindle with the Mach4 software. As well as getting help on the VCarve designer .
Thanks a LOT

[cncmakers001]

I am fairly new to CNC Routers. So these questions are basic(ish).
What I have for a CNC machine.
1. Very generic small China CNC machine. The decal shows Eagle II. The spindle drive is 200v and 1.5kw. There is no documentation or manuals with any of it. I got it 2nd-3rd hand, but still new in box for $800.00. Not bad for a beginner machine, I think.
2. I changed the control interface from pendant based to PC based so I can use Vectric and Mach4 software. This part works very well.
3. The machine works well, but as I got more familiar with it I found it a bit lacking.

Thinking that I may not be using it right I started looking into its functioning. What I found is that no matter how I saved the Vectric files, they only set the spindle RPM to 2000 RPM. Much of the info I have found says that the spindle speed can and should be different depending on the bit, cut speed (inches per minute) cut depth etc..
I have found how to change that in the G Code file, I am working on changing it in the Vectric program. But I do not know what the allowable speeds for the spindle motor can be, or should be. IE minimum speed, maximum speed, best speed etc. With no documents or manuals for the spindle motor, I am guessing at the allowable spindle speeds. Rather than over speed or or under speed the spindle (which will most likely ruin the motor), I am looking for how to determine the allowable spindle speeds without bricking the motor.

So, any suggestions on how I determine the allowable spindle speeds for this motor? From manuals or similar machine, or experience.
Also, how to tell if I am over speeding the motor. By how it sounds, or looks etc..

With user manual could be easier, you can ask the manufacturer to get the manual.

[mactec54]

Good Info. I am working on retuning the CNC spindle with the Mach4 software. As well as getting help on the VCarve designer .
Thanks a LOT

When you set up the cutter you are using in Vcarve that is where you add the RPM you need to run at, so if you go to the tool selection page you can set what ever you want the tool to do

[Belnald]

With regards to the VCarve speed setting always being 2000RPM. No matter what I set the tool speed at, it always made it 2000rpm in the gcode file.

I did finally go through ALL the "Save tool path" options that were TAP style. TAP style is what my CNC likes. I then looked at all these files for the ones that had the right code for the CNC. Out of all the possible tool path options, only 6 saved in a manner that looks like it will work with my machine. and the one save option I was using was close but "not quite right".
I have yet to try out the 6 that look good, they do have the proper speed references from the tool info. I did some speed changes with the same tool to be sure of that.

But Overall It is looking good. Thanks for the help and advice from all of you.

[Belnald]

With no MFG stickers or data anywhere on the machine, there is no one to ask.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
I am perplexed, I have used Mach4 for four or five years and am familiar with controllers that work with Mach4.

If you have one the infamous RnR motion boards, one with the swooping Eagle logo, then it definitely does not have a Mach4 plugin.
You say that your motion board works with Mach4? I am sure that many others would be interested in the details...one of the 'complaints'
about Mach4 is that the only manufacturers who have invested the time, energy and money to develop a Mach4 plugin are too expensive,
an Ethernet SmootStepper for example at $180USD.

Craig

[GME]

Belnald

I believe there may be some misunderstandings going on.

1. You cannot take a VFD out of the box and expect it to run with your spindle. The VFD has parameters that must be set properly, or you risk toasting the VFD, and possibly the spindle. As mactec pointed out, you can't run an air cooled spindle at low RPM, or it will burn up. The air cooling is RPM dependent, and at low RPM, it doesn't move enough air. If you didn't know it, VFDs are built to work with a variety of motors - not just spindles. That's why there are a variety of different settings, which are application dependent. Unfortunately, they don't tell the purchasers. So, many are in over their heads instantly.

2. V Carve is not your problem. If (a) your VFD, and (b) your control software are set up correctly, V Carve generates g-code setting the spindle speed to what you tell it. However, if the VFD, control software, or both are not set up correctly, they will prevent the spindle from running at the requested RPM. If you look at the g-code file V Carve generated for your project, I can pretty guarantee you that the spindle speed is set for what you told V Carve to set it to. You can open the file in Notepad. Near the top of the file, look for an S followed by M3. S=speed, so the number following the S will be the RPM you told V Carve to command the spindle speed. M3 tells the spindle to start at the commanded speed. So, S16000M3 tells Mach to turn your spindle on at 16,000 RPM. If your command your spindle to turn on at X speed, and it runs at Y speed, there is a problem with the VFD parameter settings, the control software configuration (what you setup), or both.

Mactec54 is CNCZone's expert of VFD parameter settings. I took a quick look look around the internet for your VFD manual, but didn't find anything. It was just a cursory search, though. Anyway, if the information is out there, mactec54 is likely to have it. If he doesn't have it, and you don't have a manual, I'm guessing your VFD is pretty much useless to you. If mactec54 happens by again, maybe he can supply you with the parameters you need.

Gary

[Belnald]

Craig,
One of the first things I did to this CNC when I got it was to remove the control board, the one that only allowed control from a pendant. I replaced it with PMDX boards. Found at this site PMDX.COM - Products for CNC and motion control applications. This works very well with Mach4. It also works well with my orphan CNC. The boards are not cheap, but I do not think they are overly expensive.

[Belnald]

Gary,
If I left you with the impression that I just unpacked and ran the CNC, I am sorry for that. I have been working in the industrial field for 30+ years. setting up a VFD is second nature and fairly easy once you have a manual. Ut took me a week or two to find the manual. The air cooled spindle was running at 2000 rpm, and the feed rate was way low as well (@ 0.25" ipm). And it did not work well. So, I was not running the CNC much due to these problems. Not gonna ruin a machine by running it like that.

Turns out that VCarve was the issue...in a way. The gcode format I was trying to use was the wrong one. SOME of the formats always saved spindle speed as 2000rpm no matter what I had the tool set at. Other gcode save option had other issues that would not work with Mach4 and my CNC. I did find 4 that seem to work properly. I am going through them to be sure they are right for what I have. I did this by looking at the actual code in the file. with notepad and Word. With the GCode telling the VFD to run at a set speed, then the VFD will run at that speed.

The VFD is Xinfatu (?), as stated I found an english manual soon after getting the machine. The VFD was set up properly, but the signal into it was telling it to run that slow. 0-10vdc input signal into VFD was @1.26 vdc. the 20K - 24K speed I need would be @9.16 vdc.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
well that makes sense....PMDX make nice boards and its comes as no surprise that it works well with Mach4.

The boards are not cheap, but I do not think they are overly expensive.

I agree, but it would appear that there are numbers of people out there who seem to think that they are too expensive. They are
inevitably those people who end up with the cheapest of CNC machines with the cheapest of Chinese made controllers, often with
pirate software, and turn up on forums like this one unable to get their machine to run, the Chinese manufacturer being nowhere to be seen.

Craig

[GME]

You're right, I thought you were a newbie. My apologies if I seemed to talk down to you.

Which PMDX boards do you use? I use the 126 and 107 and Smoothstepper ESS. PMDX's 400 series boards look interesting, but I prefer a network connection vs USB. I've been happy with my choices. IMO, it pays to go with quality components.

Since the post processors (PP) appear to be the main issue, maybe I can save you some time evaluating different ones. Use the "Mach2/3 Arcs." Mach4 uses the same PP as Mach3. I've been using the ones in Vectric Aspire and Fusion 360 for quite some time and they work. In Fusion, the PP is Mach3 which is connected to Artsoft as the vendor. Inexplicably, New Fangled Solutions is not listed as a vendor in Fusion.

I noticed Vectric has PPs called "Avid CNC." They should also work. Avid's current Plug & Play control system runs Mach4 and ESS. I've not tried the Avid PP, since I have been satisfied with the Mach2/3 one.

Hope this helps speed you along towards completing your project.

Gary

[GME]

Hi,
well that makes sense....PMDX make nice boards and its comes as no surprise that it works well with Mach4.



I agree, but it would appear that there are numbers of people out there who seem to think that they are too expensive. They are
inevitably those people who end up with the cheapest of CNC machines with the cheapest of Chinese made controllers, often with
pirate software, and turn up on forums like this one unable to get their machine to run, the Chinese manufacturer being nowhere to be seen.

Craig

Hello, Craig,

I completely agree. Going on the cheap often (usually?) doesn't end well.

The only complaint I have with PMDX is the numbering/lettering on the board doesn't match up with port/pin numbers. You have to dig through the instructions to get the Port/Pin number sorted out. IMO, it not as straightforward as it could/should be. It wasn't terrible figuring it all out, and I was able to do it right the first time, but I could have been much better. The folks at Warp9 have excellent instructions. Other vendors could take a lesson from them on user friendliness. fortunately, my transition from Mach3 to Mach4 went 'smooth as silk,' except for a pesky problem re: interaction of Mach4 and/or ESS and my E-Stop and charge pump. Solved by disabling the unnecessary charge pump.

Gary