[handlewanker]

By definition, the rich get rich and the poor get poorer.

I can never understand the reason to tax a high wage earner/generator at the upper rates and then allow so many deductions that it brings the tax rate down below the man in the street who cannot even claim the transport cost of getting to and from work to earn the money.

When I worked full time in the 90's the only deductions allowed for the common worker was clothing and/or tool allowance and you were expected to not claim it if'n you weren't actually having special clothing, like a uniform that required weekly dry cleaning etc, or safety related clothing that required servicing etc, but everyone claimed the allowance and it was never contested, only amounted to a claim of about $100 per year.

BTW, do cosmic rays travel in curved or straight lines?

I was just wondering what happens when the Earth turns and the cosmic rays get shielded by the Earth mass on the other side.

Supposing it's a valid hypothesis......so what...are they going to design cosmic ray barriers floating about in the upper atmosphere on balloons to deflect the cosmic rays when the cloud cover gets too thick?

This means a complete study has to be made involving hundreds of Climatologists et al, (anyone who can get a foot in the door), to see if'n they can deflect the cosmic doo doo's to go round to the dark side and generate clouds where the rain never falls, like in the Gobi Desert or the Sahara......but then Pigs might be flying around at that altitude and get tangled in the balloon cables and so another hypothesis gets shot down not due to it's impracticallity, but because feral flying bacon is the real problem....LOL.

I just had a look outside, time about mid morning, temperature round 22 deg C, lower white tinged with dark grey fluffy clouds going left to right, upper whispy white clouds, slightly on the fluffy side going right to left, heavy showers cycling at 1/2 hour intervals, occasionally...lets see fitting those bits of data into my model gives me....ahh haa!...just as I thought, definately some changing weather expected soon, confirmed by my barometer steady on the downward plunge.

Now if'n these weather studying experts, with nothing better to do, were funding their own research and expected to get paid by results, I don't expect to hear from them again...B/S has suddenly become a very common commodity lately, and due to the volume so far generated has no commercial value whatsoever.

I'm not for one moment saying that Cosmic rays don't do what Cosmic rays do, but actually finding a use for that data is like researching on the actual score rate for finding a needle in a group of haystacks, if the needle was not even lost at all.

BTW, the Mythbusters scored a 3 out of 3 success rate on one of their shows, for finding a needle in a haystack from trials using a needle randomly placed in a haystack that then got pulled apart and searched.

I believe Al Gore is funding a Cosmic ray generator service so that clouds can be created over regions that lack cloud cover and need the rain.

This is another win win for Al, for he not only owns the clouds, but also the water rights when they produce rain.

The last time I heard of Al was when he was holidaying in "sunny" Queensland....OOps.
Ian.

[dynosor]

Why increase the tax rate for high earners at all? At the same percentage rate they still contribute more - isn't that enough?

[jhowelb]

Being radiant energy, cosmic rays follow the behavior of light rays pretty much. Point of origin is just about every where in the u-verse at the same time.

Mitigating factors are the sun and earths magnetosphere!

(can you say "Maunder Minimum"?)

[infantry11b]

Why increase the tax rate for high earners at all? At the same percentage rate they still contribute more - isn't that enough?

why has an irs at all? make it a sales tax - not a vat, but a sales tax on everything. as long as it is not an inventory for sale - it is taxed.

want to buy stock for yourself - tax. buy a car, a boat, a house, it does not matter - pay a sales tax on it. it is collected at point of sale and given to the feds - no irs, no accounting, no tax forms, no accountants, nothing at all. add the 15% and that is it. no accounts for witholding, no returns or refunds because there is no taxes taken that have to be refunded.

[handlewanker]

You're a hard man Infantry11B.

When you tax broadly across the board, you pick up the pensioners, down and outs, disability receivers, widows, orphans, drug peddlers and kids on pocket money, all in the same bag, all buying the same goods, not one in the Millionaire class who can afford to drop $100 in the Sunday church plate as if it were pennies.

Of course, you CAN give them a refund at the end of the tax year when they present their till dockets to prove they spent the money and qualified for tax relief.....and pigs could fly too.

I expect dear old Dad, on pension now and eking out a retirement benefit that just gets smaller as the years go by, would gladly embrace the prospect of paying up front a tax that he isn't even in a bracket to pay normally.

I always hear people whingeing about the amount of tax they have to pay, usually because they get knocked back on items that don't qualify for tax relief.

A lot of those people in the big earner class go abroad for their holidays, and guess where they spend their loot.

I'd love to pay 95 cents in the dollar tax....imagine earning a few of million a year and deducting the living heck out of your tax bracket until you end up only paying 50% and taking home the 5 million that's left.....on the other hand you could be completely tax exempt and take home all your earnings of 20 grand a year, couldn't you....HUH!

The big difference is the high earner is a producer of revenue whereas the low earner is a drain on the economy by way of nil payments and social benefits.....who'd you favour most?

BTW, I just watched a program on the news tonight, about the clubbing together of some finance corporations and stock exchanges, one was AXA with the Singapore stock exchange, others are also working out the details.....could this be the start of THE NEW WORLD ORDER?

Coporations, linked together by way of commercial interests, running the show in different countries, but having the same letterhead on their stationary, fully autonomous in their own right but sharing a common cause.

Who needs a Government, when the "country" without a name, has a Constitution and due process of law, except the "country" isn't really a country, it's a hypothetical group of individuals that by way of their combined buying power control a region and anyone who comes within their sphere of influence, either by benign means or sheer expediency.....this sounds like the beginning of a best seller....a name for it?...hmmmmmm...how about "THE COMPANY STORE", you'll end up owing your soul to one of them if'n they come to be...LOL.

It might not be a bad thing really, Climate Change B/S just wouldn't get off the ground in The Company Store, and like some of the corporations in Japan, once you are born into one you are forever one of them, "our people", (not to be confused with The Mob), and you get a tattoo or microchip inplant to make your presence known to each other, beats waving a flag about and carrying a passport when you go International.

Micro chipping known sex offenders I hear is a proposed way to keep track of the slimy b##ggers, and each school zone would have a detector device, like a metal detector, that sounded off when any of the predators were on the prowl.

Personally I'd prefer they were fitted with a small explosive pellet in the brain cavity, or for humane reasons in the vicinity of their danglers, that was set to explode if'n they went within a mile of a school yard, they would then qualify to go to the Middle East as a Eunuch....LOL.
Ian.

[handlewanker]

BTW, what's a Mini Maunder Mum?
Ian.

[infantry11b]

[QUOTE=handlewanker;898231]You're a hard man Infantry11B.

When you tax broadly across the board, you pick up the pensioners, down and outs, disability receivers, widows, orphans, drug peddlers and kids on pocket money, all in the same bag, all buying the same goods, not one in the Millionaire class who can afford to drop $100 in the Sunday church plate as if it were pennies.

no i'm not hard at all. what makes you think that anyone has the right to steal your hard work and live off of it? in most countries it is called a crime, but when the government does it - we are supposed to accept it.

government eats up more than 50% of any taxes stolen from the people on supporting themselves, giving jobs to friends and supporters, and, as in the case of unions who support them, well giving our money to them.

and i always hear bleeding hearts talking like you, but in reality there is nothing against welfare, and the government would have more than enough money for that, but not enough to reward supporters with my money.

as baroness thatcher once said - the problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples money.

and when the government pretends to be the benefactor people start believing it. here we have signs that say "project brought to you through the community redevelopment project" or words to that effect. when i see signs like that I put paper over that part of the sign that says "community redevelopment project" with butcher paper where i write "the taxpayers of America".

currently government workers here make more than the average worker that supports them. they retire after 20 years at 90% of their salary for life - which means as much as 35 years at 90% salary - start at 18, retire at 38, can live to 80 that is 42 years, and we have to pay their health care and cost of living increases. that is hard on the taxpayers, and even ahrder on the poor.

additionally, people now think a stranger they don't know has the responsibility of supporting them, when it should be their family. a chairity gives support with no 'handling costs" the governments is more than 50%.

you give your local church $100.00 and they will get the entire amount to the people in the hood; give the same to the government and you will be lucky to get $50.00 - because everyone takes a cut on the way down.

i supported my father when he had a heart attack, and i supported my mother in law for more than 20 years. my family, my obligation. do or did you do that; or do you expect the government to force strangers to do it?

government programs destroy the family and turn everyone into theives.

and conservatives in America give more than bleeding heart lefties - because they believe it is their obligation to support the less fortunate, lefties think that obligation belongs to someone else.

as a very smart man once said - funny that one mother can take care of 6 kids, but 6 kids can't seem to support one mother. that is what big government does - it takes away personal responsibility.

and people with a lot of money should spend a lot - and pay more in taxes by doing so. the bottom 40% of possible taxpayers in America pay nothing in taxes. the top 10% pay 90% of taxes. "they can afford it" is nothing but theft.

and one last thing. i am not responsible for people who make bad life decisions! if you worked for a company that went broke - i am not responsible for paying your retirement from that company. if you can't pay your house payment - sell your house and buy one you can afford, don't tell me i have to pay for it. ask your own family before you hold a gun to my head and say pay or die! if you have too many children - your problem not mine. i did not get into the short strokes with you - get the man who knocked you up to pay - or get his family to pay. if you can afford a tv, a car, go to the movies, have an ipod, i pad, iphone, a computer, wear air jordan shoes at 125.00 a pop, smoke, do drugs, THEN YOU HAVE ENOUGH MONEY - PAY FOR YOURSELF AND YOUR FAMILY. can't afford any more kids, BIRTH CONTROL- hell it is free.

i'm not hard, im just taking care of myself and my family, and giving my share to the church and other charities, and i sure as hell did not adopt the rest of the nation or their problems.

[jhowelb]

Politicians have never seen a tax that they didn't love. Not for the sake of revenue generated but for the power gained.

Nothing so temporary as a permanent wave and NOTHING so permanent as a temporary tax. Witness, please, our progressive income tax.

A special provision passed for the purpose of financing the war to end all wars after which it was to be abolished.

RIGHT! MORE tax and MORE wars!!

Now the want a VAT? Not to replace but to supplement all other taxes!

[handlewanker]

Oh the VAT thingy, had that in UK.....yeah we got a GST thingy in OZ, +10% GST on most items but not all, Goods and Services Tax, supposed to replace purchase tax and "adjust" normal tax structures to enable Government to pick up the lost revenue that slips through the net, but they didn't go far enough across the board.....there's still dope peddlers that never do a days work, never pay ANY tax, but live the high life completely free from the system, but living on the system.

I get a bit Socialistically inclined when it comes to money and sharing it....I never put my blind trust in the power of a dollar, you can't buy Love with money, etc etc.

BTW infantry11B, wherever did you get the weird idea that the Government is "stealing" your money?

The tax structure may have a few glitches, but the next time you drive down a highway instead of walking through the woods, or get water out of a tap instead of a muddy stream down the road, have a thought that "my tax money" and a few others too made all this possible, and the infrastructure that makes everyday life worth living.

I don't suppose for one moment that the lady with 6 kids would feel strongly attracted to a 30% tax rate on food for the family when the family were still going to school and totally reliant on good 'ol Mum to clothe and feed them, especially when the taxes are going to be used to fund a war in East Asia, that when the dust settled, was deemed to be a total mistake by the then establisment.

Personally I couldn't give a sh!t where my tax money goes, simply because I ain't in control of the taxation department, that's a political arena, and I voted for a political party of my choice that I considered reliable enough to allocate my tax money as they saw fit, I gave them power of attorney to do just that.

That way I get to sleep soundly at night knowing that I get to keep the other 70% of my money and I don't have to worry about the lately arrived immigrant couple with two kids that live next door to me and probably get some Social Security benefits and child allowances from the taxes I pay on my investment portfolios.

The system caters for a broad range of benefits, like people with kids getting child allowances and free health care benefits to enable them to properly produce future wage earners instead of turning out underpriviliged high school dropouts that only get to work part time at Mc DooDoo's and never get off the low paid job list or own their own property.

I could go on, but a rant on Social Justice, or the lack of it, is too boring especially when the Cancun Conference is going to "adjust" all your taxation problems as far as one can foresee.

Just pay your way as the system suggests, and like a well oiled machine the wheels of Government will continue to turn as they always have....a little bit for you, some for me and a bit for the other guy....all too easy, after all, you probably got your money by screwing your boss to pay more than you were worth, so what goes around comes around...LOL.

Anyway the sign of a well adjusted society is the degree that they go to in catering for the needs of their people.

BTW, JH, if you read very carefully the reasons for a VAT type tax addition to the system you'll find it's to adjust the various imbalances that broad taxation causes....if'n it doesn't state that plainly in the proposal...what would you do about it....pay up and shut up? or take to the streets waving your arms in the air like the Egyptians did when they said "enough is enough" and make your voice heard, that is if'n the National Guard boys aren't too trigger happy when you do.....but to whom would you protest?....B'OB owns the National Guard, they're what guarantees he has to stay in office when the people jump up and down and wave their arms in the air.
Ian.

[infantry11b]

[QUOTE=handlewanker;898521]Oh the VAT thingy,. . ."

NO!

vat adds a tax at each stage of production, that is not what i propose.
if you read my comments again i was not talking about production, but the sale to the final consumer. maybe i did not say it correctly. the tax is only to the ultimate consumer, so there is only one tax. if you buy and sell stocks you dont pay the tax until you sell to a consumer. you don't pay a sales tax on inventory. so if your inventory is light bulbs you dont pay tax to buy your inventory, you only collect on it to the ultimate consumer. here it is called a re-sale license that allows you to get product for resale, NOT FOR CONSUMPTION. no tax.

in any event a vat is a complicated formula that requires adding it, subtracting it, adding it again for the increase in value, lots of accounting and formulas.

no i just want a sales tax to be paid by the ultimate consumer. this keeps prices down as taxes are not reguired during manfacturing which are hidden and passed on to others.

now if a company buys equipment to make something else, they have to pay the sales tax on the equipment as their business is making a different product not the equipment they buy. corporations don't actually pay taxes anyway, they hide it in the price of the product. products are cheaper as the cost of production is lower. yes some will charge more and not pass on savings, but someone will come along and sell a similar or even a better product for less - that is the capitalist way, and it works.

we have laws in America on price fixing so that can be punished - i wish we could do the same for opec.

[fish1234]

Sounds good to me just don't expect me to shut up when you keep asking for my money to support your ideas.

They can't tell me if its going to rain in a few weeks.
They have been WAY OFF prediciting the past 2 years hurricane seasons activity.
When we do have a hurricane they can't tell me where it will go tomorrow.

Now please tell me why I should listen to these same people tell me about whats going to happen in 100+ years from now much less pay for their research.

I see it as a research grant free for all and if the scientist can get the politicians on board then they are on the free grant money gravy train. After all the government has my money to give away on such things. Of course the results of the research will be inline with what they want the results to be. Then at the end of the reports it will always say "more research is needed," as it always says. AKA we need more grant money so we can keep our jobs.

Considering how long earth has been here and how miniscule an amount of time they are using to base all their stats on its rather ridiculous. Seems A LOT of ice melted off all on its own long before internal combustion engines were around. If the ice is melting due to rising CO2 emissions soley then we should still be covered in ice from the last ice age. Its kind of big balls to make such claims on such limited timelines when considering the time line of earth itself. If we jump everytime a sensor twitches with new laws and regs we will end up with more of the same that we have now. Stupid laws and regs that do nothing but jack things up and cost us all more that in the end do nothing to stop the problem that was originally supposed to be fixed.

Give a grant to most any scientist and you will get the results you wanted to get, especially if they know more $$$$ is to follow once the initial "results," are in.

The whole carbon credit deal is nothing but a scam of a cottage industry that Al Gore expects to profit from. When people like him and Babs who preach global warming stop flying in private jets exhausting more CO2 than I will in my life on one trip in their plane I might listen. Then again, I could never see me listening to anything those blow hards have to say short of goodbye and good ridence.


Bowman

Bowman, You know that using all that common sense and actual reasoning in your post will not get through the dense fog surrounding the proggressive mindset, they are sheep following the elite and are unable to see the truth even if it slaps them in the face! If they continue to tell themselves they are correct in their thinking it then becomes true, while the rest of us who do not follow blindly take information and process it with understanding and reason. Logic is something that does not fit into the progressive way, or should I say "NORMAL" logic, for they have their own logic based on manipulated data and lies fed to them by the great "AL GORE" and other money grubbing theives!

Maybe if we could get all them to go out in the desert with a parka on and heavy winter boots we could tell them the snow will come and you will be ready, how long would they stand there sweating until they realize the truth? The answer is, someone with great education and the gift of gab and ability to lie without remorse came and told them to do something different.

Fools are born everyday and we will never be free of them, but we need them to make the rest of us look good!!

God bless the fool, for we all need a good laugh now and then!!!

[infantry11b]

[QUOTE=fish1234;898796]Bowman, You know that using all that common sense and actual reasoning in your post will not get through the dense fog surrounding the proggressive mindset, . . ."

lets quit calling them progressives - don't let them determine what terms we use!

during the russian revolution they called themselves bolsheviks - which means majority - and they represented a very minor percentage of the russian people.

don't let the left get away with that progressive crap - they are regressives. they want a central government owning eveything [at least what others have even thought they dont like to make it apply to them] a government telling you what you NEED and giving you less than you need and a lot less than you want. no matter what you call it, king, president, chief, mullah, it is still the same. you work, they take, and give to their own supporters.

from now on let's call them REGRESSIVES!

notice that fdr did not leave his wealth to the poor? neither did fat teddy kennedy. it remings me of that joke where a communist was giving a speech - about sharing. a man in the crowd asks it it means if the speaker had 2 coats and the questioner had none would the speaker give him one of his and the speaker said YES. the questioner went through a list of things, pants, shirts, hats and always got a yes, until he asked about shoes, and the communist said NO!

the man asked why did he say no and the communist said "because i actually have 2 pair of shoes."

like i said - the regressives are big on making others pay but not so hot on doing it themselves, just like a king, or a chief, or mullah, or our current president who made millions and kept them for himself.

[Boltz]

I don't call myself a "progressive", but when it comes to nuclear safety, food safety, and securities regulation, I want regulations with teeth, and smart, well funded regulators that carry a big stick.

I want to know when I buy a gallon of gasoline that it really is 88 octane, and I'm actually getting 1.000 gallons.

If you want to see small government in action you need only look at Mexico. The government is so small that the criminals can do whatever they want to with impunity in broad daylight. The oligarchs who own the politicians seem to be OK with having to drive around in $500,000 armored Benz's.

[fizzissist]

I want to know when I buy a gallon of gasoline that it really is 88 octane, and I'm actually getting 1.000 gallons.
.

I want to know that when I get a beef taco at Taco Bell I'm getting at least 36% beef.

[handlewanker]

Meanwhile back at the ranch it's rain and more rain coming and if' the Government can get all that rain into one big bucket they could make a fortune taxing people just because the people not only need the rain to survive but to wash themselves, flush their poop away and wash their cars too amongst other things.

SO WHAT?.....well, the Government is after all a section of society that YOU THE PEOPLE have given carte blanche (a blank sheet of paper, or plain and simply a blank cheque with your signature), to act on your behalf, and depending on who is minding the store at the time, the cheque gets filled in to enable the Gov to take 30%, (or so), out of your weekly wage packet, no mor'n that, and spend it on your behalf, or as they think fit.....you did say to them by way of the voting box...HERE, GO SPEND IT ON ANYTHING YOU THINK IS OK, just don't ask for more when it's gone.

The fact that the Gov done gone and spent the whole damm lot on crap and then ran up more credit card debt on top of what yo'all ran up, but on your behalf, is irrelevant, 'cos yo'all done give them the divine and absolute right to do just that, and fill you full of holes by courtesy of THE NATIONAL GUARD BOYS if you get too uppity and try to slap the big boss in the face.

Coming down to Earth for a moment, it means you made your bed, now go and lie on it....otherwise go get the Gov out of bed, put him/her against the wall and make Strawberry jam 'cos they mismanaged your trust, and elect by mass mandate a whole new bunch from the huddled masses that have the interest of the people at heart to govern yo'all.....if'n that ain't suggestin' revolution I don't know what is.

After Cancun "allows" yo'all, and others too, to provide funds, just like an International Socialistic broad based alms society, to people who need to have modern enviro friendly methods to supply yo'all with goods that match YOUR standards, it is after all the rod of your own making that is about to be laid across your backs.

You can't stop Cancun coming to be your lawfull requirement, seeing as how YOUR people are the ones attending the conference that decides to apply the "money for all seasons", so if'n yo'all are in disagreement, where were you when it was happening, at Copenhagen when it was AGW causing the Climate Change phenomena, and now at Cancun when it is being decided that money must be spent to make enviro friendly goods in nations that don't know the meaning of the word......and for that matter going right back.....where were you when Hitler invaded Poland, and you allowed him to do it.

Cancun is just another reason the decision makers are using to see the World from their eyes, and if'n it clashes with anyone's point of view.......make your vote count next time you favour some idiot with progressive ideas.
Ian.

[handlewanker]

Hey Boltz, Mexico will probably be in the front runners for a handout to make better Tacos after Cancun.....can you imagine an Enviro friendly Taco?
Ian.

PS, what's a Taco? Is that street talk for take away fast food?...LOL.

[infantry11b]

I don't call myself a "progressive", but when it comes to nuclear safety, food safety, and securities regulation, I want regulations with teeth, and smart, well funded regulators that carry a big stick.

I want to know when I buy a gallon of gasoline that it really is 88 octane, and I'm actually getting 1.000 gallons.

If you want to see small government in action you need only look at Mexico. The government is so small that the criminals can do whatever they want to with impunity in broad daylight. The oligarchs who own the politicians seem to be OK with having to drive around in $500,000 armored Benz's.

it depends on how you define "safety." if you define nuke safety as prohibiting any new facilities - well that is not safety you are doing, it is making your personal belief controlling over real safety.
as far as securities, again what are you calling regulation? if regulation to you means corporations cannot make a profit, well that is not reasonable regulation. if you are talking about theft and fraud, we already have more than enough prosecutors to put them in jail. if you want a government with crystal balls that can see the future, well that is never going to happen.
and mexico is not a small government, it is no government at all. we should have just kept it when we took it back in the 1800's. we have a large government here and mexican criminals do what ever they want here, because the government does not have the balls to kick illegals out.

[handlewanker]

Infantry11b, overstating the obvious is not making a point for dissusion.

I would go so far as to say that if'n you can't define Safety, you will be deceased without knowing it, from one reason or another.

One of the reasons that Humanoids make laws is to ensure that conditions conducive to a safe environment are present without having to prowl about with a Nuclear arsenal at the ready looking for apparent indications that define danger in even the minutest form.

This does not mean that a particular law will make you safe, what it does mean is if'n someone were to "appear" to break the law and bring about your demise, there will be people well vested in the interpretation of the law to ensure that all measures will be taken to enable that person to argue in a court of law as to whether or not their action contravened the law that is being contested, and as a result you will be laid to rest steeped in the knowledge that justice, although blind, was seen to have prevailed.

Mexico is just an example of where not to go if'n you value your personal safety....if'n you can't reason that one out you need professional help, but perhaps the aroma of a fresh made Taco from a greasy spoon Cantina is too much for your sense of personal safety to overcome...sh!t happens.

If the Cancun conferees survive the Mexican hospitality without being taken hostage or robbed at Taco point (LOL), and come to an amicable conclusion at last, we might ALL be abiding by new laws that rob you without so much as a "stick 'em up" warning on the label...LOL.

BTW, Al Gore is reputed to have "robbed" the people of $100 million by NOT BREAKING any particular law, and so got the Nobel Peace Prize for outstanding achievements to Humanoid existence.....but even a petty Mexican criminal who robs you of $5 at knife point can be shot to death by an enthusiastic law abiding citizen, even though you suffered no ill effects from the situation.

Regulations, on the other hand, are controlling factors, not laws which are stipulating factors, and are applied where necessary to adjust a law to reinforce and indicate it's application in a particular situation.

The broadest sense of the law, "thou shalt not kill," can be interpreted in a million ways without some regulating factors defining the exact nature of the laws application.....and going to war at any time breaks this law without interpretation.

I don't think for one moment, that anyone who disagrees with the Cancun outcome and takes to the streets with their arms waving in the air, would be able to exercise their Constitutional rights to bearing arms and get past the ever vigilant and ready National Guard, who are a body of elite troops, drawn from the people, to....REGULATE.....the conduct of the huddled masses at a moment of crises....not for one moment....and you don't even have to have loaded weapons in your hands when you wave your arms in the air, just shouting a bit louder than usual is enought to draw deadly fire.

This is a well documented fact of life, you are extremely well regulated.
Ian.

[johyn]

from now on let's call them REGRESSIVES!

Sounds about right... :cheers:

[jhowelb]

Call them what ever you like but when I speak I want people to know what the hell I'm talking about so I'll call them what they are....."Progressives", from Woodrow Wilson forward.